#1
hey,

I was thinking about buying a new amp..My old combo amp has pretty much been there,bought the t-shirt kind of thing and its on its last legs. So as a result i was thinking of buying a new setup. Recently i acquired a digitech RP250, quite a reasonable little mfx pedal. The tones and effects are great, but, and here's my prob, my amp isnt..and as a result the tones that i would get out of a simple and basic audio PA system are on a much greater level that that of my amp.
I've been looking at a number of combo amps in the $500 - $700 range and havent seen anything that i could see my self playing..i've also looked at a number of solid state head/cab units with a bit more interest shown. The main issue i have at the minute is that the tones i have from the pedal are perfect(as it has numerous distortion/gain effects and amp modelling) and i dont want them ruined by more on-board effects of an amplifier pre-amp. So, and i suppose here is the crux of the matter, would it be a suitable setup to buy a 4 x 12 cab,say, and buy a power amp for it instead of a combo preamp/power amp head?
i've thought about it for quite some time,but just wanted a few different opinions on it since quite a bit of money is involved!!

Cheers

btw..i play a gibson sg
#2
i own a rp300 well thats a older series to your rp250 but my pedal got some issues it dont stand up to abuse! The bass knob is too sensitive an when i use the expression pedal the bass knob actually changes the setting!do u know any quick fixes?

well if u want to keep the tone of the settings on the rp then i guess u should buy the power amp and the cabs! but for me i prefer a amp even those solid state crate amps are nice !!!! i use a small laney amp that prolly cost $150 and that amp is worth every penny with my rp i get a killer tone an i did not have to break the bank to do it !!! my philosophy is if u have good pedals in ur rig u dont need a expensive amp unless u really need it to boost your tone
#3
depends.... if you are gonna play live and stuff...i think a 4x12 cab and a power amp would make more sense. even a combo would not be that bad....just keep the channel at clean and off you go....
#4
Depends on the tone you're looking for, but I honestly believe you won't]/i] need a stack.

I'd go for a tube Fender amp, or better yet, a Riviera. If you want high gain, I'd recommend a Mesa Boogie. There are plenty of options out there, just try stuff out!
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#5
what kinda music do you play

i'd advise you to really try out some great (tube) amps (even if you cant afford em) and see if you dont like that tone even better...

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#6
I'd still suggest getting an actual head instead of a power amp and using the pedal as a preamp. If you're not gigging, it's kinda pointless to get anything more than a 2x12 combo, so that would by my suggestion.

Personally, I say get a Fender combo of some sort. They've got good cleans, which is what you want. Heck, go for this. Sure, it's a bass amp, but it's within your range, has no onboard effects and will sound great. Guitars sound better on bass amps, anyhow.
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#7
what type of music do you play?
whats your budget? is the $500-$700 range?

a stack is over kill unless you are playing large venues that dont have a PA

a tube combo is your best bet and the distortion/gain coming from an good amp will sound so much better then that pedal ever will.

Quote by hellraiserharry
my philosophy is if u have good pedals in ur rig u dont need a expensive amp unless u really need it to boost your tone


most of your tone comes from your amp, if you run great pedals through a crappy amp it wont sound nearly as good as if you ran those same pedals through a good amp
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#8
Quote by t3hrav3n
I'd still suggest getting an actual head instead of a power amp and using the pedal as a preamp. If you're not gigging, it's kinda pointless to get anything more than a 2x12 combo, so that would by my suggestion.

Personally, I say get a Fender combo of some sort. They've got good cleans, which is what you want. Heck, go for this. Sure, it's a bass amp, but it's within your range, has no onboard effects and will sound great. Guitars sound better on bass amps, anyhow.



The problem with playing through a head is that although the power amp is included along with the pre-amp the effect of the pre-amp is still there,even if it is on a clean channel..this shares a common trait with a combo amp. Also i need the power of the stack because i am gigging.
i tried using the clean setting on (now dead) my old combo amp for a while and it sounded very rough..way too muddy on an overdriven tone and a complete loss of all frequency range too..can any1 recommend a nice setup in or around 700 bucksish??
playin blues,bit of funk..hendrix,led zep..and the like..

but for gigging i need a fairly good range of tones..which i have through the fx pedal..and i dont want to play through the bands pa..although that has been working for the last few weeks since my amp died..we just want to keep it for vocals tho..

cheers 4 fast replies btw
#10
You may consider a keyboard amp/cabinet setup. These will not color the tone like a drivin tube amp. You also may want to go to a forum that discusses similar needs that you have...such as Naitive Instuments Guitar Rig (SP?) These folks just use software loaded on a laptop and run through a clean system....similar to your quest.

This is a great website, but there are many fanbois that just promote their favorite gear...so bias is entered into your answer.

Good Luck
#11
Quote by static86

most of your tone comes from your amp, if you run great pedals through a crappy amp it wont sound nearly as good as if you ran those same pedals through a good amp


i disagree..modern pedals are of a great quality..meaning that if you run it through a half decent amp,it will sound just as good as if you ran it through an amp that may cost 2 or 3 times as much as the half decent one. and besides..if you did have a smashin amp why would any1 taint it with more fx?!
#12
Quote by stangconv
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agreed. a traynor ycv40 or 50 (or peavey classic) would be an excellent choice for the tones needed. those tones NEED valves/tubes to sound their best.
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#13
Quote by VaiKID
i disagree..modern pedals are of a great quality..meaning that if you run it through a half decent amp,it will sound just as good as if you ran it through an amp that may cost 2 or 3 times as much as the half decent one. and besides..if you did have a smashin amp why would any1 taint it with more fx?!


I disagree. Alot of the tone that you hear is that of the cone inside an amp. A decent amp will always sound much better than a crappy amp even if you have an effects pedal on it because of the valve sound. Also for tone settings a decent amp with a nice head will be better than an effects pedal.
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#14
Quote by VaiKID
The problem with playing through a head is that although the power amp is included along with the pre-amp the effect of the pre-amp is still there,even if it is on a clean channel..this shares a common trait with a combo amp. Also i need the power of the stack because i am gigging.
i tried using the clean setting on (now dead) my old combo amp for a while and it sounded very rough..way too muddy on an overdriven tone and a complete loss of all frequency range too..can any1 recommend a nice setup in or around 700 bucksish??
playin blues,bit of funk..hendrix,led zep..and the like..

but for gigging i need a fairly good range of tones..which i have through the fx pedal..and i dont want to play through the bands pa..although that has been working for the last few weeks since my amp died..we just want to keep it for vocals tho..

cheers 4 fast replies btw

None of what you play suggests a solid state amp, and the RP250 is a fun toy with decent modulation effects but you don't want to be using the distortions. You also don't need a stack, the only ones in your price range are turd anyway. Your mistaken in your views on pedals too - a pedal is only as good as the amp it's plugged into. If you stick an amazing pedal through a crappy amp you'll still sound like crap.

Traynor YCV50 all the way, more than loud enough to gig with and it makes the right noises for what you play.
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#15
Quote by steven seagull
None of what you play suggests a solid state amp, and the RP250 is a fun toy with decent modulation effects but you don't want to be using the distortions. You also don't need a stack, the only ones in your price range are turd anyway. Your mistaken in your views on pedals too - a pedal is only as good as the amp it's plugged into. If you stick an amazing pedal through a crappy amp you'll still sound like crap.

Traynor YCV50 all the way, more than loud enough to gig with and it makes the right noises for what you play.


i agree with some of what you are saying..but why is it that when the pedal is plugged in through our P.A system its an amazing tone (coming down to taste..my own in this case!!) but through an amp..good or bad..i cant get what i want out of it.. and besides tube amps will only give you a certain amount of gain/distortion..they're old technology..i need the pedal for an extra amount of gain (which on that pedal is actually quite good..and i've tried out a lot of distortion pedals!!)..

the problem i have with amps is that because of the on board effects present in the pre-amp they cancel out the "effects" i have created on the pedal which through a P.A system sounds great..hence my need to NOT get an amp and why i WANT a stack w/ power amp!!!lol!!
#17
Quote by VaiKID
and besides tube amps will only give you a certain amount of gain/distortion..they're old technology..


old technology with superior sound quality over solid state

a tube amps distortion will crush any distortion pedal and not having enough gain, that depends on the type of amp it is, you can always use a OD pedal to boost the amp if it didnt have enough gain or get an amp that has enough gain for what you need
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#18
Getting back to the OP's question....goes something like this:

1. tube amps are better than solid state; If using a guitar tube amp, use effects only, NO amp emu's.

2. keyboard/PA amps may be better than guitar amps for GR3 or a modeling effects processor.

As an avid fanboy of tube amplification, even I will admit that technolgy is evolving to a point to where modeling processors...such as guitar rig 3 and others will become quite desirable. The sounds created are frankly amazing especially for the cost of this technolgy and it's versitility. I realize this new tech is a ways down the road, and I still believe tube amplification does produce the best possible tones (Today.)

As far as a half stack or a combo...it's really a personal preference and (of course) if your rig is mic'ed, etc. Personally, I prefer the fullness and "complete" sound that a 4x12 provides.

Here is a link that had some advocates of amp modeling software and what they find works best for them. Hopefully this can be of help to you.

http://www.native-instruments.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62545
#19
Quote by static86
old technology with superior sound quality over solid state

a tube amps distortion will crush any distortion pedal and not having enough gain, that depends on the type of amp it is, you can always use a OD pedal to boost the amp if it didnt have enough gain or get an amp that has enough gain for what you need



using an OD pedal defeats the purpose of having a tube amp..if i've spent a few grand on an amp..i dont want to have to spend more money on a pedal aswell!!
#20
Quote by VaiKID
i agree with some of what you are saying..but why is it that when the pedal is plugged in through our P.A system its an amazing tone (coming down to taste..my own in this case!!) but through an amp..good or bad..i cant get what i want out of it.. and besides tube amps will only give you a certain amount of gain/distortion..they're old technology..i need the pedal for an extra amount of gain (which on that pedal is actually quite good..and i've tried out a lot of distortion pedals!!)..

the problem i have with amps is that because of the on board effects present in the pre-amp they cancel out the "effects" i have created on the pedal which through a P.A system sounds great..hence my need to NOT get an amp and why i WANT a stack w/ power amp!!!lol!!


A decent tube amp has more than enough gain for the typical sounds associated with the stuff you play, and there's plenty of tube amps out there that have a lot more gain on tap...ever heard a Framus Cobra, ENGL Powerball or even a Laney GH50L? Also most decent amps don't have effects on them so I'm not quite sure what you mean by that.

If you haven't been able to get the tone you want out of an amp then you simply haven't tried any decent amps. Also, how much money do you actually have, I', assuming £350 in which case that's a massive difference in budget....$700 implies you're in America and therefore get US prices.

Suffice to say £350 will barely get you a decent cab, let alone a head and power amp. If you've only got £350 then running your Digitech into something like a Laney VC30 or one of the new Sound City combos should give you good results, but you'd get far better results by ditching the idea of presets and just boosting one of the aforementioned amps with a bit of overdrive and tweaking them with an EQ.

Quote by VaiKID
using an OD pedal defeats the purpose of having a tube amp..if i've spent a few grand on an amp..i dont want to have to spend more money on a pedal aswell!!

Not at all, boosting a tube amp with an OD pedal is just about the most common trick out there! Zakk Wylde, Joe Satriani, Stevie Ray Vaughan, John Frusciante, Kirk Hammett - that's a few straight off the top of my head. You could probably get away with one of the overdrive settings on the Digitech, just keep the level up and the gain low.
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Last edited by steven seagull at Apr 28, 2008,
#21
this has become more of a discussion about tubes and transistors than what setup i need!!

i just want to say that i'm all for vacuum tubes..the tones are great and the sound is amazing..the problem is the cost..and also i dont need it for what i play at the moment..the rp 250,relatively inexpensive as it is, does the job just fine..hence all i need is a "black box that sound comes out of"!!!ha..lol

any helpful suggestions with regard to this are much appreciated..

cheers
#22
There's not been one post in the thread that hasn't been geared towards finding what would be the best solution for you - it's just that they don't fit with your preconceived ideas as to what the answer should be.
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#23
Quote by steven seagull
A decent tube amp has more than enough gain for the typical sounds associated with the stuff you play, and there's plenty of tube amps out there that have a lot more gain on tap...ever heard a Framus Cobra, ENGL Powerball or even a Laney GH50L? Also most decent amps don't have effects on them so I'm not quite sure what you mean by that.

If you haven't been able to get the tone you want out of an amp then you simply haven't tried any decent amps. Also, how much money do you actually have, I', assuming £350 in which case that's a massive difference in budget....$700 implies you're in America and therefore get US prices.

Suffice to say £350 will barely get you a decent cab, let alone a head and power amp. If you've only got £350 then running your Digitech into something like a Laney VC30 or one of the new Sound City combos should give you good results, but you'd get far better results by ditching the idea of presets and just boosting one of the aforementioned amps with a bit of overdrive and tweaking them with an EQ.


Not at all, boosting a tube amp with an OD pedal is just about the most common trick out there! Zakk Wylde, Joe Satriani, Stevie Ray Vaughan, John Frusciante, Kirk Hammett - that's a few straight off the top of my head. You could probably get away with one of the overdrive settings on the Digitech, just keep the level up and the gain low.



i suppose what i should have said are the preamp composites..ie mid treb and bass.. which are equalisation effects..but effects nonetheless..soz bout the $700 thing..i'm in uni and using an old keyboard which doesnt have euro sign..i'm actually in ireland..

i guess you'd have to hear what is possible from the pedal through the p.a to believe it..like i said it suits my needs fine..and i'm not advocating that tube amps are crap ,only that i dont require one..which is why i just wanted to go down the power amp head/cab route as opposed to the combo which will have overdrive/gain options built into the pre-amp..
#24
i'm not telling you to buy what i have (see sig., i use my clean channel when using effects and it sounds pretty damn good), but VaiKID - please listen to these suggestions as I was once where you were and i am now in love with my tube amp.

with and without the pedal.

the RP250 is cast metal and seems like it would be road worthy although I do not gig.

and Hellraiser - i'm not sure what your problem is with the Bass knob but i believe you can program the exp pedal to sweep change any parameter and maybe yours is set to change bass when you press, so see if you can get that changed back or use the reset button (with caution obviously as it will take the whole thing back to factory settings).

;
Last edited by 311ZOSOVHJH at Apr 28, 2008,
#25
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
i'm not telling you to buy what i have (see sig., i use my clean channel when using effects and it sounds pretty damn good), but VaiKID - please listen to these suggestions as I was once where you were and i am now in love with my tube amp.

with and without the pedal.

the RP250 is cast metal and seems like it would be road worthy although I do not gig.

;


hmm..i'm sure you're correct and i never doubted any1 who was saying that tube amps are good..its just that for my kinda money(student living an all that) a decent tube amp would simply be an unrealistic dream at the moment, so i resigned myself to not getting 1 and settling for something else more affordable but not too much of a compromise in sound..hence the rp250 thingamajig..
#26
Quote by steven seagull
There's not been one post in the thread that hasn't been geared towards finding what would be the best solution for you - it's just that they don't fit with your preconceived ideas as to what the answer should be.



ok,well i didnt mean to cause any offense..i just wanted to make sure the whole thing didnt stray too far off track..

but you've got to understand i came to the forum with a question/solution for a problem and all i got back was tube amp,tube amp,tube amp..which is not what i had actually started the thread for..i explained the setup that i had and intend to keep (ie rp 250) and was looking for suggestion on that front..not that i dont appreciate the time every1 has put into replying!!!

at any rate i didnt mean to offend..
#27
Quote by VaiKID
hmm..i'm sure you're correct and i never doubted any1 who was saying that tube amps are good..its just that for my kinda money(student living an all that) a decent tube amp would simply be an unrealistic dream at the moment, so i resigned myself to not getting 1 and settling for something else more affordable but not too much of a compromise in sound..hence the rp250 thingamajig..

That's just it - you CAN get a decent, giggable tube amp for 700 euros!

http://www.thomann.de/ie/laney_vc30212_gitarrencombo.htm
http://www.thomann.de/ie/peavey_delta_blues_210_tweed.htm
http://www.thomann.de/ie/peavey_classic_30.htm

any of those should be able to handle most of the tones you want straight out of the box, but if you need to tweak things a bit then the RP250 is more than capable of filling in the gaps. Straight through the PA the RP250 can approximate general tones pretty well, but it can't replicate the dynamics you'd get from a tube amp and proper, guitar-voiced speakers, particularly with lower gain tones.

I know a lot's been discussed in this thread, but the way I understood it is that, at the heart of it all, you want to get good overdriven tones for more classic rock stuff like Hendrix and Led Zep, and also good clean tones for funkier stuff. You also want something that you can run your RP250 through and you also want it to be loud enough to gig with and cost 700 euros? You also want it to be an improvement on your old combo which got muddy with distortion but also completely lost tonal definition which just screams out solid state to me....sound just like my old Peavey Bandit

And you didn't consider a tube amp because you didn't think you could get anything with your budget, right? Well, you can...
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Last edited by steven seagull at Apr 28, 2008,
#28
Quote by steven seagull
That's just it - you CAN get a decent, giggable tube amp for 700 euros!

http://www.thomann.de/ie/laney_vc30212_gitarrencombo.htm
http://www.thomann.de/ie/peavey_delta_blues_210_tweed.htm
http://www.thomann.de/ie/peavey_classic_30.htm

any of those should be able to handle most of the tones you want straight out of the box, but if you need to tweak things a bit then the RP250 is more than capable of filling in the gaps. Straight through the PA the RP250 can approximate general tones pretty well, but it can't replicate the dynamics you'd get from a tube amp and proper, guitar-voiced speakers, particularly with lower gain tones.

I know a lot's been discussed in this thread, but the way I understood it is that, at the heart of it all, you want to get good overdriven tones for more classic rock stuff like Hendrix and Led Zep, and also good clean tones for funkier stuff. You also want something that you can run your RP250 through and you also want it to be loud enough to gig with and cost 700 euros? You also want it to be an improvement on your old combo which got muddy with distortion but also completely lost tonal definition which just screams out solid state to me....sound just like my old Peavey Bandit

And you didn't consider a tube amp because you didn't think you could get anything with your budget, right? Well, you can...



heh..you read that 1 fairly well!! well,yea you'd be right about that alrite..its just that i looked on thomann and didnt see a huge amount that caught my eye,yknow?

but cheers, it looks like i might be able to get a nice 1..and keep a bit of tone aswell!
thanks very much!
#29
Quote by VaiKID
heh..you read that 1 fairly well!! well,yea you'd be right about that alrite..its just that i looked on thomann and didnt see a huge amount that caught my eye,yknow?

but cheers, it looks like i might be able to get a nice 1..and keep a bit of tone aswell!
thanks very much!

That's the thing...eyes are never the best judge of an amp, always the ears

Don't get me wrong, you could get something like a Crate Powerblock and a 2x12 cab if you're dead set on relying on the RP250, but a tube combo will sound a lot better especially when you take into account the stuff you play.

Dunno about the Delta Blues but there's plenty of UGers with VC30s and Peave Classics.

Here's a few vids I tracked down in the meantime...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yc92eJTKtts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp0XHe3BsKM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3Re_-wvXu4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7BXbbckje0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnXDk0AFX_M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooBw-e44ebA
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#31
If you are just playing classic rock, abd you get one of those amps Seagull suggested, I bet you are going to end up not using the RP250 as much....

My RP pedal was useless once I heard how much better the tone is straight into my amp
#32
Quote by hellraiserharry
i own a rp300 well thats a older series to your rp250 but my pedal got some issues it dont stand up to abuse! The bass knob is too sensitive an when i use the expression pedal the bass knob actually changes the setting!do u know any quick fixes?

well if u want to keep the tone of the settings on the rp then i guess u should buy the power amp and the cabs! but for me i prefer a amp even those solid state crate amps are nice !!!! i use a small laney amp that prolly cost $150 and that amp is worth every penny with my rp i get a killer tone an i did not have to break the bank to do it !!! my philosophy is if u have good pedals in ur rig u dont need a expensive amp unless u really need it to boost your tone



Well i don't agree at all. The amp is where there tone comes from and i don't care if you have a 500$ pedal in a crappy solid state amp then it will not sound good.
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#33
I vote that you get a Classic 30, which would be perfect for the Zep, Hendrix etc, and also the funk. And then if you want to use your Digitech pedal you can plug it straight into the FX Return jack and Voila, you have a valve power amp.
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