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#1
I really need someone to clear this up for me. Lets say for example someone was playing an E7 A7 B7 progression, would you almost have to play the notes in arpeggiate the chords? And play an E, G#, B and D? Or can you just mess around in the scale and base it around the 7th chord? I'm fairly confident in soloing in most of the common scales but I'm just getting into actually putting arpeggios in my leads and need some help. Thanks
Last edited by jimmyslashpage at Apr 28, 2008,
#2
The most likely option would be to play the Em Blues scale over the whole thing, but watch out for the Bb note.

You can also throw in some major pentatonic/mixolydian/dorian licks that correspond with the chord. For instance, over A7, the A major pentatonic, A Dorian scale, and A Mixolydian scale become useful options, but don't play those over B7; use those scales with B as the root.
#4
Quote by jimmyslashpage
what about the b3 in the dorian scale? Just avoid it?

Not at all; minor and major tonalities very commonly coexist in blues.
#6
Quote by branny1982
or more adventurous like phrygian dominant.
It theoretically works, but it will not sounds bluesy.

Of course, I'm assuming you're playing a blues. If you're playing Am G F E7, E Phrygian Dominant will sound great over the E7 chord.
#13
Really what brought this up is You Shook Me by Zeppelin...I was just wondering the theory behind the song if you know
#15
Quote by bangoodcharlote
Or more correctly, I7-IV7-V7.

You're correct, I almost notated it as such but it's so common in blues I decided no one would mind.
#19
Quote by jimmyslashpage
Thats what i thought. But it seems like he plays a G lydian scale during the solo so would that fall under the same category as A mixolydian (im pretty sure it does)

Same notes, but they're not used interchangeably. You couldn't play Lydian over that progression.

Quote by jimmyslashpage
Thats what i thought. But it seems like he plays a G lydian scale over a B7 during the solo?

A dominant seventh is not a Lydian chord at all.
#20
"G Lydian" over a B chord would be B natural minor. The G note is a bit odd over B7, but I suppose you could justify it as the minor third of E if the song is in E.

Quote by :-D
Same notes, but they're not used interchangeably. You couldn't play Lydian over that progression. Sure you could, it would just be weird and you'd have to watch out for the nat7.
#23
Quote by bangoodcharlote
Sure you could, it would just be weird and you'd have to watch out for the nat7.

The scale, yes - I was referring to the mode.
#24
ya I mean I can solo in modes like major, dorian, etc. in just like a regular progression, but thinking about playing, blues, minor and major pentatonic, mixolydian, dorian and even lydian over one chord....its just a lot lol
Last edited by jimmyslashpage at Apr 28, 2008,
#26
Quote by jimmyslashpage
ya I mean I can solo in modes like major, dorian, etc. in just like a regular progression, but thinking about playing, blues, minor and major pentatonic, mixolydian, dorian and even lydian over one chord....its just a lot lol
Saying that something uses the Dorian "mode" refers to a specific and rigid set of guidelines. You would play the Dorian "scale." They contain the same notes and are basically the same, but the scale can be used in scenarios such as this while a Modal Dorian piece would be something like Dm7 G7 repeated over and over.


If this makes sense, great. If not, wait two weeks and send me a PM asking me to explain it.
#27
^^^ya that makes sense thanks a lot. But why couldn't you use dorian over that progression? it has a flat seven and like you said, blues has the both a major and minor 3rd at times
#28
Quote by jimmyslashpage
^^^ya that makes sense thanks a lot. But why couldn't you use dorian over that progression? it has a flat seven and like you said, blues has the both a major and minor 3rd at times
You could use the E Dorian scale over an E blues, but it would not be a modal E Dorian piece.
#29
Quote by bangoodcharlote
It theoretically works, but it will not sounds bluesy.


Satriani makes use of phrygian dominant in The New Blues, and it actually works quite well.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#30
For blues, the old-fashioned tried and true method is the blues scale(LOLOLOL) rooted on the root of the chord. E blues over E7, A blues over A7, B blues over B7, etc. This will get you a traditional bluesy sound (might want to use major pentatonics as well, definitely some major thirds). For some other sounds, you MIGHT want to try a whole tone scale even though there's a clash with the fifth, and listen to everyone else's suggestions.
#31
Quote by grampastumpy
For blues, the old-fashioned tried and true method is the blues scale(LOLOLOL) rooted on the root of the chord. E blues over E7, A blues over A7, B blues over B7, etc.
The even more traditional approach would be to just use E Blues over all of that.
#33
Quote by ouchies
hahaha, yeah seriously. The cool thing to do would be to combine E mixo and E blues ;], imo. DOOO IT !
A good blues solo might use all 12 tones at some point.
#35
Quote by ouchies
Well yeah, you can pretty much do anything you could ever want in blues since you're playing over all dominant chords. You could even throw in some diminished ideas in there if you really felt like being weird.
A diminished arp will probably destroy the blues feel and give a Spanish or jazzy sound, but that may be the good thing (or it may even sound bluesy). However, playing tritones is a Joe Perry (Aerosmith) trick. He does it a bit much for me, but a little could be cool.

I'll show how each note would be used over each chord in an E major Blues. I've listed the notes as all sharps, but I may refer to them by their enharmonic names (ie calling A# the flat fifth as opposed to the correct augmented fourth). Deal with it.

E7:
E This is the root and should be obvious.
F This would be weird; I'd generally avoid it.
F# This is the second and perfectly fine, though I'd use it as more of a passing tone than a note to hold.
G This is the minor third and comes from the Em Pent.
G# This is a chord tone and is perfectly fine.
A This is in the Em pent, but I'd use it as more of passing tone than a note to hold.
A# This is the blue note and can be a great passing tone; don't hold it too long.
B This is a chord tone and is perfectly fine.
C This would be weird; I'd generally avoid it.
C# This is the sixth and perfectly fine, though I'd use it as more of a passing tone than a note to hold.
D This is the seventh and perfectly fine, though I'd use it as more of a passing tone than a note to hold.
D# This would be weird; I'd generally avoid it.

A7:
E This is a chord tone and is perfectly fine.
F This would be weird; I'd generally avoid it.
F# This is the sixth and perfectly fine, though I'd use it as more of a passing tone than a note to hold.
G This is the seventh and perfectly fine, though I'd use it as more of a passing tone than a note to hold.
G# This would be weird; I'd generally avoid it.
A This is the root and should be obvious.
A# This would be weird; I'd generally avoid it.
B This is the second and perfectly fine, though I'd use it as more of a passing tone than a note to hold.
C This is the minor third and comes from the Am Pent. C in an E Blues sounds weird, but over an A7 chord, it works.
C# This is a chord tone and is perfectly fine.
D This is in the Am pent, but I'd use it as more of passing tone than a note to hold.
D# This is the blue note and can be a great passing tone; don't hold it too long.

B7:
E This is in the Bm pent, but I'd use it as more of passing tone than a note to hold.
F This is the blue note and can be a great passing tone; don't hold it too long.
F# This is a chord tone and is perfectly fine
G This would be weird; I'd generally avoid it.
G# This is the sixth and perfectly fine, though I'd use it as more of a passing tone than a note to hold.
A This is the seventh and perfectly fine, though I'd use it as more of a passing tone than a note to hold.
A# This would be weird; I'd generally avoid it.
B This is the root and should be obvious.
C This would be weird; I'd generally avoid it.
C# This is the second and perfectly fine, though I'd use it as more of a passing tone than a note to hold.
D This is the minor third and comes from the Am Pent.
D# This is a chord tone and is perfectly fine.

As you can see, every note is acceptable at some point.
#36
How do you know to use those specific scales over those specific chords?!?!?
#37
Quote by mattj2192
How do you know to use those specific scales over those specific chords?!?!?
Experience and knowledge of intervals.

I know that F is the diminished 5th of B. Over a B7 chord, F is the blues note, so it works as a nice passing tone.
#38
Saying that something uses the Dorian "mode" refers to a specific and rigid set of guidelines. You would play the Dorian "scale." They contain the same notes and are basically the same, but the scale can be used in scenarios such as this while a Modal Dorian piece would be something like Dm7 G7 repeated over and over.


If this makes sense, great. If not, wait two weeks and send me a PM asking me to explain it.
It hasn't been two weeks, but this doesn't make sense to me. What differentiates the Dorian mode from the dorian scale?
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Quote by MudMartin
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#40
Quote by Ænimus Prime
It hasn't been two weeks, but this doesn't make sense to me. What differentiates the Dorian mode from the dorian scale?
The notes are the same.

But...

If I say that something uses the D Dorian mode, it means that the piece follows the rigid structure of a modal piece. If I say that something uses the D Dorian scale, that just means that I'm using the scale; the song does not have to follow the rigid structure of a modal piece.

I just want to make it clear that playing a B note over a Dm chord does not make the song modal. It means you uses the D Dorian scale rather than the pentatonic or natural minor.
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