#1
Let me give you a quick background on me.

Complete overuse of marijuana and alchohol have rendered my feeble brain retarded so I can't figure this out.

Some danish guy told me I could learn and key of a scale, example: C Major, and just shift it to get the different keys.

That seemed way too simple for me.. I'm basing this on what I tried to comprehend out of my "Monster Scales and Modes" book.

If anyone can ellaborate on this I'd appreciate it.
#2
What he means is, you can shift the formula for a major scale anywhere. The formula for a major scale is WWHWWWH (W = Whole Step, H = Half Step).

C Major is C D E F G A B C.

Take for example, G Major, which would be G A B C D E F# G.

If you're talking about the box position, then you could just play it wherever you'd like.
#4
Quote by Fanaticism
So does that mean I have to learn the notes on my guitar


You should be familiar with them. Never hurts.
#5
Quote by Fanaticism
So does that mean I have to learn the notes on my guitar

You should. Try practicing instead of overusing marijuana and alcohol for a change. It'll do you good.
#6
I practice like **** all of the time, I never said I was no good at guitar I just said I don't know scales. Let me guess, that makes me no good.
#7
^And practicing scales will help, exactly like I said. I'm saying that if you applied yourself more to the music and studying it you'd get more out of it.
Quote by Fanaticism
I never said I was no good at guitar I just said I don't know scales. Let me guess, that makes me no good.

No, I never said any of that. Good try.
Last edited by :-D at Apr 29, 2008,
#8
also scales are not boxes. thought someone needed to say it.

not knowing scales does not make you a bad guitarist, not knowing scales just hinders your ability to keep moving forward with your learning, but once you learn them, you will blaze ahead of everyone in your school who just play covers.
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Pffffffft schematics


Although i guess the OP will have to get used to reading them if he's going to buy a bugera..
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along with fire escape routes...

#9
Quote by Fanaticism
So does that mean I have to learn the notes on my guitar

You play a musical instrument, therefore it follows you should learn something about music. If you don't know the notes then you never really know or understand what you're playing.

Just be thankful that you've got tabs - pretty much every other instrument requires you to learn standard notation to get anywhere. While we're on it, be thankful that the guitar's so simple...one finger=one note, compare that to something like the saxophone or trombone.
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#10
Quote by steven seagull
You play a musical instrument, therefore it follows you should learn something about music. If you don't know the notes then you never really know or understand what you're playing.

Just be thankful that you've got tabs - pretty much every other instrument requires you to learn standard notation to get anywhere. While we're on it, be thankful that the guitar's so simple...one finger=one note, compare that to something like the saxophone or trombone.


Any simpler and I'd swear I was playing bass...
#11
Just learn the note names for the low E string, and, later on, the A string.

Then you can quickly identify scales by knowing their starting note, and the shape. It also helps for chords in the same way: starting note and shape.


This should offer a good compromise between learning and substance abuse.


Later on you can move on to complicated ideas like "scales are not boxes."
If I did it, this is how I did it.
#13
Quote by Fanaticism
I practice like **** all of the time, I never said I was no good at guitar I just said I don't know scales. Let me guess, that makes me no good.


People are trying to help you out, no need to swear or be smart.
#14
Quote by steven seagull
You play a musical instrument, therefore it follows you should learn something about music. If you don't know the notes then you never really know or understand what you're playing.

Just be thankful that you've got tabs - pretty much every other instrument requires you to learn standard notation to get anywhere. While we're on it, be thankful that the guitar's so simple...one finger=one note, compare that to something like the saybe simple in the beginnerxophone or trombone.


I agree with the tab comment, you only learn where to put your finger, with music you have to learn the notes. Guitar is maybe simple in the beginner stages but the more you advance the harder it gets.
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#15
Quote by Avedas
Any simpler and I'd swear I was playing bass...


Christ, i'd say a decent knowlege of scales and general harmony would be more important for a bassist, or at least one who wants to add a spot of interest to his/her playing!

VirusDetected is right though - once you have the formula for any scale (major, minor, blues, whatever) and know how it should funtion in terms of its intervals, you can apply the formula to any root note.
#16
Quote by Fanaticism


If anyone can ellaborate on this I'd appreciate it.



Because of the guitar's tuning it has what you'd call parallel positions.

That means if you were playing something in the key of C, if you slide it up 2 frets
and played the same thing it would be in D, 2 more frets, E, and so on.

That works for ANYTHING - a scale, a lick, a song.

That's one of the beauties of guitar -- all keys have the same fingering, just different
positions on the neck. The downside is the tuning makes it possible to play the
same note in different places which is confusing to some people. That's not so
bad when you consider some instruments -- like piano -- have a different fingering
for every single key which can be a real PIA.
#18
a yes, but you can play a c scale 30 different ways on a guitar... only one way on a piano

we have several of the same pitched note, meaning it can be played several different ways...

the guitar is one of the hardest instruments to sight read on because of our positional ability...

nobody that put the effort into learning notes and reading music wishes they didn't... meaning you won't regret it either

trust me man... i see students all the time that roll eyes one minute, then drool the next as they become hungry to know more about this stuff...

what's the good of being a good player if you constantly hit walls...

i'll bet if you check every forum on earth, the questions that start with "stuck" will be asked by people that can't read and don't understand theory...

it's an obvious way out of trouble, so make the effort.
#19
Quote by Cabsy
a yes, but you can play a c scale 30 different ways on a guitar... only one way on a piano
.


Yeah, but on the flip side, if for instance I were doing an improvisation in the key of
C, and then the sax player wanted to change it to Eb -- no sweat on the guitar.
I just do what I was doing on some other spot on the neck. On the piano, I'd be
breaking out into a huge sweat if I didn't know my Eb key as well as my C key.

There's something to be said for a system that allows you to concentrate more on
relative scale degrees, rather than absolute note names. At least as far as
improvisation goes and applying theory.
#20
relative scale degrees are super important, I agree

but if you were playing in G and took that scale to Eb for example... then it would clearly sound like you raised the whole thing to a new position, and your fingers don't learn any new moves

like dragging a bar chord from 3rd pos. to 11th pos.

it sounds much nicer if you can keep your voicings close to each other... everyone can play a D, a G an Am a C an F an Em in 1st position... so why not be able to do that in every position? If you want to be great... you should be able to play every single chord in 1 position... this means some weird fingerings, but imagine the possibilities?

Understanding how to play all your chords and all your scales/keys in 1 position helps you to keep voicings closer and understand the differences between the keys... and this leads to more interesting lines than dragging a lick to a new position, and more interesting chord voicings than just dragging around a bar chord everywhere.

when you change the key in 1 position, all the degrees have moved... so your comfort fingerings are now grabbing 5ths instead of 3rds, or 7ths instead of 4ths... this therefore opens up your ears to new lines, and your fingers to new movements...
#22
Quote by Cabsy


it sounds much nicer if you can keep your voicings close to each other... everyone can play a D, a G an Am a C an F an Em in 1st position... so why not be able to do that in every position? .


Sure, I totally agree. But, even doing THAT type of thing can move to parallel
positions completely independent of what key you're in.

I've played both guitar and piano and yes, piano's linear note arrangement makes
it seemingly easier to "see" the music at first. But once you understand how the
guitar operates more, that advantage lessens and the price you pay for a nice
linear arrangement is having to do a LOT of extra work if you want to play the
same thing in every key. Whereas on guitar, you can actually spend that work
on more useful musical ideas.
#23
Quote by c4acr3
People are trying to help you out, no need to swear or be smart.


He must be one of those "angry drunks"