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#1
First I'd like to say hello to all you fellow guitar players, welcome to this thread, My name's Ricky. I'll start by saying that I'm fairly new to this wonderful realm of axe wailing.

Here are a few things I've picked up on since I started playing guitar. Some are thoughts but most are opinions and so, I hope I don't offend anyone.

I'm heavily influenced by John Mayer (that doesn't mean it's all I play) . That's just my cup of tea. I began playing acoustic riffs and only seemed to be getting better and better. Good enough, that people who've been playing for years thought I had too... but I had only a few months of practice, granted, I practiced 7 to 8 hours a day. And so... i had a lot of buddies that played metal. I noticed that a lot of them didn't know much about chords. Most relied solely on "tabs" and were completely lost if they saw something like "G7" or "Fm6"... And so... came my annoyance of "power chords"

So, here's how I learned. First I learned "cowboy chords" this is the very basic sound of music... However, you can nearly play everything just using these basic chords. So, I got some chord charts from the internet and practiced them, transition is key. With this, I learned what all the "add" and "sus" stuff meant. It's the addition or suspension of notes in the chord. You'll find some good lessons on this site about that. It looks hard but it's cake.

Next, I ignored most guitarists who said "If your hand hurts when playing... please, do yourself a favor, and stop." lol Ok dudes, have you ever heard the saying "No pain, no gain." ??? Well, I played until my fingers felt like rocks. I play till my hand or wrist pretty much gives up on me. I'm not saying to go and kill yourself on this... but there will be pain. or there won't be progress.

Then, I jumped over to barre chords. Now these really do hurt at first. For weeks I thought I'd never get past the pain. Then before I even realized, there was no pain. Again, I went on the internet and printed out the formations for these. They are fairly easy to play with and move around the frettboard with. All you need to remember are the different patterns.

Finally, I began looking into scales... now this is where pain comes in a different form. Brain pain. Scales are very important and you need to learn them. That's where soloing comes in. I'm still trying to learn and memorize them!!!lol Again, there's some very helpful stuff on this site on that.

Also, during all of this, I've read about Theory. I go thru this book I have every now and then. Honestly, I don't think much of theory. It's a good thing to know it... but I can jam and come up with sweet riffs without it. I also don't believe in taking classes. I love the idea of being self taught. If that guitar feels at home in your arms then it is... if it's asking you to take lessons... then... no comment. I'm learning only the basics, the "need to" stuff. Then I'm going on auto pilot.

Please do yourself a favor and don't rely too much on power chords. I mean, I play with them now because I'm jamming with a bass player who played in a punk band. But... that's the beauty of it, my transition was smooth. Power chords are an abreviation of barre chords. I wrote a sweet riff in only a few minutes. From John Mayor to Greenday in seconds... and that's my theory, if you're stuck on power chords, that's all you'll play, and transition will be impossible.

Another tip... I've met plenty of good guitarists who have so much pride when it comes to covering songs. As a rookie, I have no time or place for pride. I know guys who spend days and days, trying to figure out a song. Only to find that some of his notes are wrong, maybe even the whole chord progression. Instead of wasting time, look up the song! Then, take all that time you would of wasted, on learning the player's technique.

I was a blessed illustrator before I picked up the guitar... and if there's something I learned from drawing, was that the only way to learn was to mimic. I'd say, how does this guy draw eyes? Oh, I see. How does he draw this at this angle? Roger that. Then, after years... I mean, yeeears lol I was able to draw anything, anyway. How? Because you're learning. You're teaching your mind to remember certain details, techniques. After you learn how others do it... you throw in your touch. Your flavor. So, don't think of it as copying, think of it as learning. My little tool bag of tricks gets bigger everyday. Forget pride.
Guys say "You gotta train your ear" lol Nah dude, train your hands, your fingers... in the process, your ears will take notes.

Again, I'm a rookie myself, but I'm getting very good, very fast. I'll post some of my riffs here soon. Also, if you wanna see some of my cool art, look me up on deviantart.com search for voltage24

... now, if only I learn how to play guitar like I draw! lol
Last edited by ocelott at May 1, 2008,
#2
I read your post and you seem logical, get this book, the Guitar Grimoire volume 1 Scales and Modes, not many understand it as I do but I feel u may
Out here you've gotta know where your towel is!
#3
so you' been playing for 3 months and say the things thats vetern mucians is saying is wrong... whats wrong with this picture
That's the jizz
#4
I see nothing ridiculous in the post.

Regarding no pain, no gain:
If you're an athlete, you know that you have to push yourself. Running/lifting/exercising hard hurts. You have to push yourself some, but there is a limit at which it becomes unhealthy and even dangerous to go too hard; you could strain, pull, or tear muscles and do nasty things.

On guitar, you need to stop if you're in agony. Some pain is to be expected, but you don't want to need surgery on your tendons because you tried to be a "tough guy." Just know your body and know that it's okay to take a break.
#5
lol As I wrote in the begining, "These are only opinions" and yes, sometimes I doubt veterans. Because I''m shocked when I hear people with 9-10 years of experience play. The point of my opinion or theory is " Bust your ass on that guitar and the award will be great" trust me, and No, I've been Playing for almost 2 years. But I play up to 4 to 8 hours a day... or night. I don't sleep. lol Don't get offended dude... It's my opinion. What was it that got to you? Maybe you are right? I'm just a rookie.
#7
Quote by ValoRhoads
I read your post and you seem logical, get this book, the Guitar Grimoire volume 1 Scales and Modes, not many understand it as I do but I feel u may



Sweet, i sure will, thanks dude
#8
Quote by bangoodcharlote
I came to your defense. Surely you don't mean me.


No, I was talking about the post above yours lol Sorry, i'm new here and I didn't know how to reply to it. I think I got it now lol
#9
Quote by ocelott
No, I was talking about the post above yours lol Sorry, i'm new here and I didn't know how to reply to it. I think I got it now lol
You see that "edit" button next to "quote?" Delete this post and paste it into your other post. Double-posting is frowned upon here.
#10
Quote by ocelott
...
Guys say "You gotta train your ear" lol Nah dude, train your hands, your fingers... in the process, your ears will take notes.

Again, I'm a rookie myself, but I'm getting very good, very fast. I'll post some of my riffs here soon. Also, if you wanna see some of my cool art, look me up on deviantart.com search for voltage24

... now, if only I learn how to play guitar like I draw! lol


You seem pretty clued up, and most of what you said is more or less spot on, but that bit is completely wrong. The most significant event in a guitarist's development is the day you realise that your ears are far more important than your fingers.
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

Quote by Dave_Mc
i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


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#11
Quote by ocelott
Also, during all of this, I've read about Theory. I go thru this book I have every now and then. Honestly, I don't think much of theory. It's a good thing to know it... but I can jam and come up with sweet riffs without it.

You seem sensible, but make sure that you realize you don't write "with" or "without" theory; it exists no matter how or what you write. It's simply a descriptive tool.
Quote by Peradactyl
so you' been playing for 3 months and say the things thats vetern mucians is saying is wrong... whats wrong with this picture

Nothing. You don't have to be a veteran player to be a good musician.
Last edited by :-D at Apr 30, 2008,
#12
nice post. most of it was fair. Just one question, what if you play Death or Black Metal? is it really any use to learn chords?
#13
Quote by FreakShow99
nice post. most of it was fair. Just one question, what if you play Death or Black Metal? is it really any use to learn chords?

you can't play death or black metal until you've learned to play the guitar.

Just read the TS's comment about theory too...frankly if you don't think much of theory then you don't think much of music, because theory IS music. It might seem daunting at the moment, but once you start to understand it you'll realise just how important it is...after all, everybody wants to understand what they're playing, right?
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

Quote by Dave_Mc
i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


stuffmycatswatchontv.tumblr.com
Last edited by steven seagull at Apr 30, 2008,
#14
Quote by steven seagull
You seem pretty clued up, and most of what you said is more or less spot on, but that bit is completely wrong. The most significant event in a guitarist's development is the day you realise that your ears are far more important than your fingers.


Indeed

Quote by FreakShow99
nice post. most of it was fair. Just one question, what if you play Death or Black Metal? is it really any use to learn chords?


And if you ever decide to play something different? then you have been playing guitar or bass for however long and learnt nothing :x besides "knowledge is power" as they say
Last edited by johntb at Apr 30, 2008,
#16
Quote by steven seagull
You seem pretty clued up, and most of what you said is more or less spot on, but that bit is completely wrong. The most significant event in a guitarist's development is the day you realise that your ears are far more important than your fingers.


LOL. Well I actually agree more with the new guy. When you're playing, music
IS movement. The ear is no more or less important than the fingers. They
both feed back into each other. You CAN practice in a way that trains your
fingers and your ear DOES take notes....


The no pain no gain I don't in general agree with. Depends on the pain. Fatigue
happens, but pain is nearly always telling you "Hey dummy, there's a better way
you could be doing that!"
#17
Quote by wildyoda2
Ears are more important than hands. There are no deaf guitar players.

there aren't too many guitar players without hands either.
#18
Quote by edg
LOL. Well I actually agree more with the new guy. When you're playing, music
IS movement. The ear is no more or less important than the fingers. They
both feed back into each other. You CAN practice in a way that trains your
fingers and your ear DOES take notes....


The no pain no gain I don't in general agree with. Depends on the pain. Fatigue
happens, but pain is nearly always telling you "Hey dummy, there's a better way
you could be doing that!"


Of course you need them both, your hands are what do it...but your ears are the only way to tell if you're doing it right.
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

Quote by Dave_Mc
i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


stuffmycatswatchontv.tumblr.com
#19
Well, you DID say:

Quote by steven seagull
The most significant event in a guitarist's development is the day you realise that your ears are far more important than your fingers.


I don't see "the "far more important" or any more important for that matter.
And I've never had that "significant event". If anything, just the opposite kind
of epiphany. Maybe I haven't developed enough yet ....
#20
Quote by edg
Well, you DID say:


I don't see "the "far more important" or any more important for that matter.
And I've never had that "significant event". If anything, just the opposite kind
of epiphany. Maybe I haven't developed enough yet ....


or it just means you have a different point of view

i think my ears are far more important than my hands. obviously hands are pretty important because they need to be trained well enough to do what you want them to do, but at least for me the best way to know what i want them to do is to listen to the music and basically be imaginative over it. if i'm not listening to the music i can't very well be imaginative and create something. this goes for soloing, polyrhythms, just sitting down and writing a song and really any thing music related.
#21
Quote by edg
Well, you DID say:


I don't see "the "far more important" or any more important for that matter.
And I've never had that "significant event". If anything, just the opposite kind
of epiphany. Maybe I haven't developed enough yet ....


I did, you're right

For me, the ears are far more important because as far as I'm concerned I only really started to play when I learned to use them. We've all seen those shedloads of youtube guitarists who post stuff that's godawful, and the reason it's godawful is because they don't listen to what they're playing. All they concentrate is the actions required to play, learning solely from tabs contribute to that mindset somewhat.

The emphasis is on putting that finger on that spot and that's it, but that isn't your ultimate goal when playing the guitar. It's the whole video game mentality that's summed up in Guitar Hero and DDR...performing the correct action at the correct time=win. They miss the most important point way, when you pick up the guitar your goal isn't to perform an action, you're goal is to produce the desired sound. Of course there are actions that you need to perfect to make that sound, but the physical part isn't what matters at the end of it all...how you make the sound is incidental, the most important thing is that the sound is right.

That's why there's hundreds of guitarists each with minute, immeasurable differences in their technique, odd quirks and some things that just seem plain wrong.
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

Quote by Dave_Mc
i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


stuffmycatswatchontv.tumblr.com
#22
Well, I guess my point of view will remain different then.

My epiphany was that when you're playing and when you actually get "into the
zone" you become the music. It all happens in real time in the moment. Part of
that becoming is how you move and part of that is what you hear. It's too
simplistic to say the movement is just a mechanical process to produce the sound
you desire. They both interact and feed off each other and the actual differences
between the two diminish -- you're hearing what you play and playing what you
hear at the same time.

So, to me playing is BOTH a dance and an aural production. I don't separate the
two as a player. The audience only gets the sound, but the end result they
recieve was produced by both a dance producing music and music producing dance.

Just my take on it.
#23
Quote by steven seagull


For me, the ears are far more important.



+1

music is an aural art..... its all about what it sounds like. You need fingers to play just like you need legs to walk, but both are irrelevant if you have no place to go.

Quote by edg
Well, I guess my point of view will remain different then.

My epiphany was that when you're playing and when you actually get "into the
zone" you become the music. It all happens in real time in the moment. Part of
that becoming is how you move and part of that is what you hear. It's too
simplistic to say the movement is just a mechanical process to produce the sound
you desire. They both interact and feed off each other and the actual differences
between the two diminish -- you're hearing what you play and playing what you
hear at the same time.

So, to me playing is BOTH a dance and an aural production. I don't separate the
two as a player. The audience only gets the sound, but the end result they
recieve was produced by both a dance producing music and music producing dance.

Just my take on it.


I dont see it that way at all. ^

When you play guitar its not about the "dance" that the fingers do. They move because they have to. They are "doing the bidding" of the ear. (& brain if you want to get technical)

The art of dancing is about the dance. its a visual art set to music. the "dance" your fingers do when playing guitar isn't at all the same thing. Your fingers arent artistically moving about .... they are doing a job.....moving from 1 note to the next based on what the artist is "hearing". The choices made by the artist are based on aural considerations, not visual.
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Apr 30, 2008,
#25
yeah i played like **** for 2 years cuz i didn't realize i sounded like ****...then i started listenin' and havent looked back
#27
Inner experiences of playing are different. To me the movement and sound
when playing, when REALLY zoned into it, are inseparable. There's no order of
precedence or importance. To get Me, the sound and my movement as one
inseparable whole is actually what I consider to be the peak player experience.

It's part of my core belief system -- unity creates, separateness destroys. I don't
separate the movement from the sound because my experience has shown me
otherwise. Putting ear "above" fingers makes no real sense to me in terms of
how I approach things. Neither does putting fingers "above" ear.

Other approaches, experience and beliefs will reach different conclusions.
#28
This post isn't contraversial. A contraversial post would go something like this:

"Hey guys, it's fun to have sex with goats, North Korea sounds like a pretty liberal country, Borris Johnson would make a good major, dead people turn me on and i think rape is good"
#30
Most of it is more or less good. A few things that may be controversial:

There is nothing wrong with power chords. They have been used since classical music, and probably earlier. They should be used in proportion though, agreed.

The no pain no gain thing: A little pain is ok, but obviously not to the point of developing tendonitis. A few months ago I started doing this exercise with diminished legato stuff, which is a stretch. The first week it really hurt, so I took it in moderation. After 2 or 3 weeks, I could do it more comfortably. The hand strengthens over time.

The rest I agree with, and obviously theory theory theory theory theoryyyyyyyyyyy.
#31
Quote by edg

It's part of my core belief system -- unity creates, separateness destroys. I don't
separate the movement from the sound because my experience has shown me
otherwise.


well you really cant separate them can ya? I mean if you want a certain note, you have to move your finger to play it. nobody that is playing a guitar could ever separate the sounds they make from the movements required to make them.

I think the thing to ask yourself here is "what is the reason for the movement"?
The answer: to create a certain sound ( or play a particular note). So while they cannot be separated it is important to realize that 1 dictates the other. Ideally, It is the sound that dictates the movement. I dont see how it could be any other way when expressing yourself aurally.
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Apr 30, 2008,
#32
I love it when people dismiss theory and say "I can write sweet licks and bust wicked solos without it" If you've ever heard these people jam you'd know why.
#33
Quote by Wonthefu


Know your theory, then play like you don't.



I love this! Sigged!
Quote by cakemonster91

*chuckle* A peanut. With a face.



Go to your staff paper and re-write this song a half step down so on the paper it'll be like you have a "C" just move it down to a "B#"




Know your theory, then play like you don't.

#34
Quote by ocelott
Sweet, i sure will, thanks dude



no don't i hate that book a better one is incredible scale finder by hal leonerd but that is just my opinion


this book actually shows where the root note is where as the guitar grimoire just has like 10million pages of dots


it gives me a headache to look at dot after dot after dot .............
song stuck in my head today


#35
Quote by wildyoda2
Ears are more important than hands. There are no deaf guitar players.



i cahallenge that llok at what bethoven did when he was deaf and thats more than guitar
song stuck in my head today


#36
Quote by lbc_sublime
i cahallenge that llok at what bethoven did when he was deaf and thats more than guitar

Beethoven was not deaf from birth though. By the time he lost his hearing he already knew so much about music that he could basically "hear" the music in his head. Even though he couldn't physically hear what was being played, he knew what it sounded like.
#37
Quote by shortyafter
Beethoven was not deaf from birth though. By the time he lost his hearing he already knew so much about music that he could basically "hear" the music in his head. Even though he couldn't physically hear what was being played, he knew what it sounded like.


Exactly
#38
Quote by GuitarMunky

I think the thing to ask yourself here is "what is the reason for the movement"?
The answer:



No, YOUR Answer. Not THE answer, not my answer.
Not really even my question.

It's cool you or anyone else thinks that way and I totally see why. You can ask
the same about a note, "What's the reason for it?". I don't know that reason
has a lot to do with it.

In any case, my inner experience is what it is and it didn't agree with the original
"significant event in a guitarist's development" comment. I appreciate people
may have that experience and I'm not invalidating it, but I don't think that applies
across the board, or at least definitely not to me. I guess until I have that
experience, but at 30 years I don't think it's going to be coming any time soon....
#39
Quote by edg
No, YOUR Answer. Not THE answer, not my answer.
Not really even my question.

It's cool you or anyone else thinks that way and I totally see why. You can ask
the same about a note, "What's the reason for it?". I don't know that reason
has a lot to do with it.

In any case, my inner experience is what it is and it didn't agree with the original
"significant event in a guitarist's development" comment. I appreciate people
may have that experience and I'm not invalidating it, but I don't think that applies
across the board, or at least definitely not to me. I guess until I have that
experience, but at 30 years I don't think it's going to be coming any time soon....



Im not sure I understand you. Are you saying you dont choose notes based on how they sound? If not what do you base it on ?
#40
Quote by GuitarMunky
Im not sure I understand you. Are you saying you dont choose notes based on how they sound? If not what do you base it on ?


Sure. Sometimes. But by no means all. Sometimes I desire the note, sometimes I
desire the movement that produces the note. A lot of times I don't know on
a conscious awareness level what's going to come out sound-wise. Probably
more often than not I'm hearing something as much for the first time as
someone listening would be.

I've never been one to hear a tune in my head and then play it. I'm not even sure
I'd want that. I like the excitement of just jumping in and letting it happen. That's
what draws me to playing. And I do approach music mostly from improvisation,
so that also goes into most of what I think about playing. Other aspects of
playing can be a lot different.