#1
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7374710.stm

Thoughts? Criticisms?

I don't have a copy of the UG Community rules on me, but it probably says somewhere in there that discrimination of any form will not be tolerated, so keep that in mind.

Also, the article is from the BBC, so don't treat it as a reliable source.

I think it's good to see Australia take another step into the modern world of acceptance, despite my personal uncomfort around homosexuals. I by no means whatsoever express that discomfort, I'm just a bit cautious of it. Sorry.
#2
I reckon that it's good that Australia officially recognizes their relationships, that they finally get at least some of their say. Overall though, might as well make it legal to have marriage instead of just 'unions'. Homophobia=lame.
#3
Yeah it's true, I think it should be perfectly legal for homosexual relationships/couples/marriages everywhere.
#4
Its about time really, a lot of the laws on homosexuality in these supposedly civilized countries tend to lack behind the social acceptance that is prevalent.

Live and let live
#5
But the government will not include any changes to the Marriage Law to pave the way for gay marriage.

That's a bit gay. Wait.. <<
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#6
I think it's a good move, but I believe that once the gay community obtains these rights they will be more likely to press harder in order to gain marriage rights too.
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#7
I think it's great to see that governments are actually starting to recognise that gay couples are couples as much as any hetrosexual couple. A couple of guys I went to school with are gay, and I think anyone who doesn't think that gay couples are just as genuine as straight ones needs to pull their head out of their ass.
#8
just read about it before, i think it's excellent news, and about time for it too!
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#10
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#11
not that i disagree with it, but its so typical of rudd, hey...
he's just feeding the masses. doing what everyone wants.

i think that gays should have more rights, but i respect howard for sticking to his guns about what he thought.

rudd is going to **** up, because although people want things, EVERYONE doesnt know whats best for australia...
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#12
It's good news, but there won't be any gay marriage. The Howard party didn't, the Rudd party say they won't, and personally I think it should stay that way. Imho, marriage should only be between a man and a woman. I'm fine with any other type of union, just not marriage.
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#13
Quote by instagata0
not that i disagree with it, but its so typical of rudd, hey...
he's just feeding the masses. doing what everyone wants.

i think that gays should have more rights, but i respect howard for sticking to his guns about what he thought.

rudd is going to **** up, because although people want things, EVERYONE doesnt know whats best for australia...

so far so good, so u cant really attack Krudd....yet

EDIT: Krudd was intentional but I'm a supporter of him, if that makes sense..
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#14
Excellent, 'bout time.
We're getting closer to gay marriage being legal, it's just taking forever.
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#15
I don't know about the UK or Aussie-land, but the U.S. conservative media tries to correlate broken homes with homosexuality. A bunch of bull**** if you ask me.

Sexual preference shouldn't be a government issue.
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#16
Quote by t3gan
Excellent, 'bout time.
We're getting closer to gay marriage being legal, it's just taking forever.

that wont happen in our lifetime.
marriage has 4 key elements:
it cant be forced ("if there is any reason why these people should not be joined... speak now")
it has to be between a man and a woman
to the exclusion of all others
and it has to be for life

its just too against the fundamental principle of the idea of marriage to be changed any time soon.
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#17
Quote by Bishnozle
****ing fags.......hate them


If you don't like gay people then don't marry one.
Problem solved.

If a couple wishes to be married, then let them do so.
It's their choice, and affects their lives, not yours.
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#20
Quote by instagata0
that wont happen in our lifetime.
marriage has 4 key elements:
it cant be forced ("if there is any reason why these people should not be joined... speak now")
it has to be between a man and a woman
to the exclusion of all others
and it has to be for life

its just too against the fundamental principle of the idea of marriage to be changed any time soon.


Yes, it will happen in our lifetime. Just about all states now have 'civil unions' with the ACT about pass laws which will allow for ceremonies.

As for the for the rest, who says? As for the man and woman bit that can be changed at any time as it was by Howard a couple of years ago. Prior to that federal law did not state marriage was between a man and woman. Marriage in Australia is controlled by the state not religion.

Priests, rabbis, ministers etc. can only perform a marriage if they are licensed to do so by the state. The marriage certificate issued by a religious organisation is not a legally recognised document for proof of marriage - only a marriage certificate issued by the Dept of Birth, Deaths and Marriages is.
#21
people are misunderstanding the marriage concept a lot. Two men or women cannot be married, this is due to the definition of marriage. Marriage is the union of a man and a woman. Same sex couples have the same thing as a marriage, its just not called a marriage.

the problem is not one of legality, but definition, theyre basically asking the government to redefine a word. Since this word was originally a religious word, the government arent happy to change its meaning.

same sex partners can have 'civil partnerships' which are pretty much identical to marriage, except rather than a man/woman its a man/man or woman/woman relationship.
#22
I'm not going to Australia now. Seeing two men or two women holding hands makes me supremely uncomfortable

Thankfully, the state I live in just passed a bill a couple weeks ago that says that only marriage between a man and a women will be recognized by the state government.
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#23
Quote by Ancient Jello
Yes, it will happen in our lifetime. Just about all states now have 'civil unions' with the ACT about pass laws which will allow for ceremonies.

As for the for the rest, who says? As for the man and woman bit that can be changed at any time as it was by Howard a couple of years ago. Prior to that federal law did not state marriage was between a man and woman. Marriage in Australia is controlled by the state not religion.

Priests, rabbis, ministers etc. can only perform a marriage if they are licensed to do so by the state. The marriage certificate issued by a religious organisation is not a legally recognised document for proof of marriage - only a marriage certificate issued by the Dept of Birth, Deaths and Marriages is.

federal law has stated that marriage was between a man and a woman since at least the marriage act of 1963 (which is a cwlth law, by the way, not a state law). and im fairly sure it was before that.

there are plenty of people who are fighting for gay marriage, but i just think that its an area thats too sensitive to touch in the near future. its like abortion. lots and lots of people dont think it should be legal, but no one is going to outlaw it.
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#24
I think the Chinese should be forced to marry same sex only. That would solve their population problem in a few years.
#25
Quote by n2dabloo
I think the Chinese should be forced to marry same sex only. That would solve their population problem in a few years.

Does that classify as racism?
#26
Quote by n2dabloo
I think the Chinese should be forced to marry same sex only. That would solve their population problem in a few years.


and put them in an economic crisis when everyone is gay, old and retired.
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#27
Quote by instagata0
federal law has stated that marriage was between a man and a woman since at least the marriage act of 1963


No. Howard's amendment, passed by Parliament on August 13 2004, to section 5 of the Marriage Act 1961 reads:

marriage means the union of a man and a woman to the exclusion of all others, voluntarily entered into for life.

This was not the case prior to Howard's amendment.

It also added the explicit denial of recognition of foreign same-sex marriages in section 88EA:

A union solemnised in a foreign country between:
(a) a man and another man; or
(b) a woman and another woman;
must not be recognised as a marriage in Australia.
#28
yeah, i was all for gay marriage but then i thought like, isnt marriage a christian ceremony and having a physical same sex relationship goes against the bible so it doesnt really make sense.

does it?
#29
Quote by Ancient Jello
No. Howard's amendment, passed by Parliament on August 13 2004, to section 5 of the Marriage Act 1961 reads:

marriage means the union of a man and a woman to the exclusion of all others, voluntarily entered into for life.

This was not the case prior to Howard's amendment.

It also added the explicit denial of recognition of foreign same-sex marriages in section 88EA:

A union solemnised in a foreign country between:
(a) a man and another man; or
(b) a woman and another woman;
must not be recognised as a marriage in Australia.

i thought that the only change in 2004 was to stop people who had a sex change from marrying something.
as in you had to be born as either a man or a woman.

hell, im not sure though. looks like you have it worked out.

i stand by what i said - they're not going to redefine a word which is a massive part of family law any time soon.

with that said though, theres no telling what rudd will do under pressure.
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#30
Quote by instagata0
that wont happen in our lifetime.
marriage has 4 key elements:
it cant be forced ("if there is any reason why these people should not be joined... speak now")
it has to be between a man and a woman
to the exclusion of all others
and it has to be for life

its just too against the fundamental principle of the idea of marriage to be changed any time soon.


Gay marriage is already legal in the Netherlands.
And what is more, there's been a bloody purple nose and some bloody purple clothes that were messing up the lobby floor. It's just apartment house rules so all you 'partment fools remember : one man's ceiling is another man's floor.
#31
Looks like another area of discrimination may get the boot:

"CHURCHES 'CAN'T DISCRIMINATE 1 May 2008

Christian organisations in all states and territories may have lost the right to discriminate against gay people despite religious exemptions in anti-discrimination laws, legal experts claimed this week following a landmark ruling against the Uniting Church’s Wesley Mission.

Homosexuality as an intolerable sin was not a doctrine of Christianity, the NSW Administrative Decisions Tribunal ruled last month, because there were many dissenting views on the subject among Christian groups generally, and specifically within the Uniting Church."


http://www.ssonet.com.au/display.asp?ArticleID=8250
#32
Quote by Mister.Y
Gay marriage is already legal in the Netherlands.

.... so?
netherlands =/= australia.
your country was probably far less of a bitch about the issue than australia.

Quote by Ancient Jello
Looks like another area of discrimination may get the boot:


http://www.ssonet.com.au/display.asp?ArticleID=8250

thats disgraceful.
i mean, i have nothing to back that up, but i think that it shouldnt be up to the government to decide what churches are allowed to believe.

.... nah, actually, seeing as im not religious at all, i just hope that that finds its way to the westbro babtist church...
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#33
I don't know I'm not saying that gays shouldn't be married or whatever but a civil union is the exact same thing except a different word. Everyone puts so much pressure on the government and they just did what should have made everyone happy thats just my 0.02 also to the guy who said that the conservative media tries to put broken homes with gay couples. I really haven't seen that too much and I'm from Oklahoma one of the most conservative states.
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#34
Quote by tayroar
I don't know I'm not saying that gays shouldn't be married or whatever but a civil union is the exact same thing except a different word. Everyone puts so much pressure on the government and they just did what should have made everyone happy thats just my 0.02 also to the guy who said that the conservative media tries to put broken homes with gay couples. I really haven't seen that too much and I'm from Oklahoma one of the most conservative states.

i think its just the principle of the whole thing. its not so much that their rights are screwed up, but more just that they arent allowed to be recognised as married like a regular couple can be
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#35
Quote by Mister.Y
Gay marriage is already legal in the Netherlands.


Not just the Netherlands but also Belgium, Canada, South Africa, Spain and some states of the USA. Plus there's a whole parcel of countries that have 'civil unions' (which is really just euphemism for marriage, is it not?).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage

And, instagata0, the it's not the government telling the churches what to believe but just interpreting the anti-discrimination laws. And, anyway, why should churches or any other organisation being exempt from them.

Also the churches don't pay taxes so until they do they can just shut up.
#36
Quote by Ancient Jello
Not just the Netherlands but also Belgium, Canada, South Africa, Spain and some states of the USA. Plus there's a whole parcel of countries that have 'civil unions' (which is really just euphemism for marriage, is it not?).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage

And, instagata0, the it's not the government telling the churches what to believe but just interpreting the anti-discrimination laws. And, anyway, why should churches or any other organisation being exempt from them.

Also the churches don't pay taxes so until they do they can just shut up.

youre right, i agree. thats why i said that i had nothing with which to back up what i thought. because in reality, they shouldnt be exempt from any laws. i suppose its just that when you bring faith into it, you dont have to believe it.

what i mean is that if a person doesnt agree with the church, then they dont have to be a part of it. its like, for example, i have a jewish friend, and my school (christian) told him that he could only attend the school if he attended chapel services.

its sort of the same situation. if he didnt want to go to my school, he/his parents could have just said "no".

i guess i just dont think that people should be forced to change their faith... if thats whats happening, and i know that it isnt really, but you can see what im getting at.
________________________________________________________


by the way, just to the netherlands guy - like the quote says, lots of countries have allowed gay marriage. our country, on the other hand, made laws saying that a gay marriage in any of them was not recognised by australia.
Quote by Machanix
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#37
This is both awesome and retarded at the exact same time.

All these people arguing that gay marriage is "a union between man and a woman" are ignoring that simple fact that love isn't always "a union between a man and a woman". You can't just discriminate against gay marriage on the same principals as why women weren't allowed on golf courses. "Because it's been that way too long".

These new law changes are a great step in the right direction, but as Wil Anderson pointed out, John Howard claimed that Marriage was about the survival of the species;
"Bullshit, Lemon Rusky is about the survival of the species"

This whole debate just makes me lose further faith in mankind.
We're far too discriminating against people who are no different. It's like hating people simply because they prefer watching Sci-Fi films to Comedy. It's a choice that doesn't affect you in the slightest and yet these people still argue against it.

-sigh-
My 2 cents.
#38
Good, I hope it paves the way for gay marriage.
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