#1
I currently using a 100 watt solid state amp. I have recently started practicing with my band and found that my amp sounds like @ss past 4. Im have been looking at new tube amp and have a question about wattage. How much louder is a 50 watt tube than a 100 watt ss? I need to crank my ss amp to 7 to get over the drummer so would a 50 watt be appropiate for getting over the drummer and creating a nice saturated tone?

Thanks for any help
#3
Its not that the amp is louder, Its the way the ear percieves it or something like that!! just google it!!
#4
50 watt tube is more than enough to get over a drummer. Unless the drummer is like Animal and has very little control over his own volume and just beats the hell out of everything! I had one of those once.... he had to go!
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#5
its not wattage its just tube amps sound better the higher the volume
solid states sound ****tier the higher the volume
#6
My co-guitarist uses a 20w tube amp and me sometimes 15 and sometimes 30w, and it works fine. Hell, I even used a 5 watt Tube amp for band practices a while back.
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#7
Quote by SHAUNYSHAUN1234
Its not that the amp is louder, Its the way the ear percieves it or something like that!! just google it!!


Yep. Tubes start to distort very early, but our ears think that distortion is just more volume - the tone still sounds very clean. That's why they sound louder.
Quote by Lunchbox362
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#8
Quote by Fama
Yep. Tubes start to distort very early, but our ears think that distortion is just more volume - the tone still sounds very clean. That's why they sound louder.


I tried to tell my neighbours that once...
...
#9
I smell a lot of bullsh!t here. Tube amps are just as loud as any other kind of amps when having same level of power. its just that there is a lot of difference between the speakers and frequency outputs of the amps.

a cranked 50 watt marshall pushing out 80 watts into a G12T75(for example) will be just as loud and seem just as loud as an 80 watt solid state amp pushing out 80 watts (and having a stompbox giving a marshall-like frequency response and distortion in front of it) into a G12T75
#10
^ No, that is the BS in this thread.

Play a cranked 50w JTM45 into the same speaker as a cranked 50w MG. You'll soon stop spouting turd.
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#12
Nope, clue's in the name.

They might've made a 100w version at some point but the typical one is the 45-ish watt one.
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#13
Quote by MrCarrot
Nope, clue's in the name.

They might've made a 100w version at some point but the typical one is the 45-ish watt one.

ah, fair enough.
#14
Quote by bartdevil_metal
I tried to tell my neighbours that once...


i can see how that went down...

deadly
Thank you please.
#15
50 watts is 50 watts.
just like 100 decibels is 100 decibels.
however, tubes actually amplify some harmonic frequencies that arent in solid state amps, this is one reason tubes "sound better" than solid state. also, this is why people say they are louder. I dont really know if louder is an accurate term, but it does somehow cut through better due to, umm (for lack of a better term) MORE sound. i hope that makes sense.

and yes, 50 watts will be more than enough
#16
Standard rule of thumb is tube is 3x as loud as ss. I would imagine has about as much to do with the depth and overall kickassedness, as it has to do with actual volume.
#17
Quote by MrCarrot
^ No, that is the BS in this thread.

Play a cranked 50w JTM45 into the same speaker as a cranked 50w MG. You'll soon stop spouting turd.

i think you misunderstood me.


what i said was, a 50 watt tube amp(ie 80 watts when cranked) is just as loud as a solid state amp that is also putting out 80 watts(which a cranked mg isnt) with similar harmonic content (ie via a distortion pedal) and frequency content
#18
Just to add my 2 cents.

I don't get the point of people stating that a tube watt is just as loud as a SS watt. We all know that tube sounds louder to us than SS, so that's pretty much negligible. We don't play for dogs or other animals, so I think we can just ignore the whole "tube isn't really louder" thing.

As someone said before, rule of thumb is a tube watt is about 3 times louder than a SS watt.
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#19
the point is to find a logical scientific explanation to the phenomenon which is in general what men have done throughout history in hunger for knowledge in the ever expanding world! yes, we have come a long way from the stone age when we just believed that cooked eggs were stiff and raw ones were runny, while we now know that it is because of some the bonds between amino acids that break when exposed to high temperatures.
#20
Quote by 1337void
the point is to find a logical scientific explanation to the phenomenon which is in general what men have done throughout history in hunger for knowledge in the ever expanding world! yes, we have come a long way from the stone age when we just believed that cooked eggs were stiff and raw ones were runny, while we now know that it is because of some the bonds between amino acids that break when exposed to high temperatures.
.....Ohhhhkayyyy.

They put out equivalent volume in dB yes, but tube amps add a lot of harmonic distortion, which makes it seem louder and fuller to our ears.

There's your scientific explanation.
The Laney Thread are big and clever. No exceptions.
#21
TS On your 100 watt SS amp you cant go past 4 because it starts to clip

On my 50 watt tube amp 4 is starting to get into the sweet spot and when she is all turn way up it sounds great.

THats why they sound louder, you can actually turn them up to "11"
#23
Quote by Hendrix2242
Sooo... Uhhhh.... Riiiight...
50 watt good?


yes
#25
Quote by 1337void
...with similar harmonic content (ie via a distortion pedal) and frequency content


Quote by MrCarrot
.....Ohhhhkayyyy.

They put out equivalent volume in dB yes, but tube amps add a lot of harmonic distortion, which makes it seem louder and fuller to our ears.

There's your scientific explanation.


see man i told you, if the pedal also adds similar harmonic distortion and eq's the sound the same way that the equivalent marshall, then it will seem just as loud.
#26
Quote by 1337void
see man i told you, if the pedal also adds similar harmonic distortion and eq's the sound the same way that the equivalent marshall, then it will seem just as loud.


I'm not sure if a pedal can add that harmonic distortion. It might be able to, but I think it might take tubes (of course there are some pedals with tubes in them, but even all of those don't run at high enough voltage to make use of it).
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#27
Quote by Fama
I'm not sure if a pedal can add that harmonic distortion. It might be able to, but I think it might take tubes (of course there are some pedals with tubes in them, but even all of those don't run at high enough voltage to make use of it).

i believe blackstar pedals run the tube at 300 volts.
i seriously doubt if one tube in a pedal can make a SS amp just as loud as an amp with +/- 3 preamp tubes and 2 or 4 poweramp tubes though ...
#28
Quote by 1337void
see man i told you, if the pedal also adds similar harmonic distortion and eq's the sound the same way that the equivalent marshall, then it will seem just as loud.



honestly, most 100+ solid state amps talked about in this forum, sound horrible at higher levels.

there are some exceptions but about 80-90% of the 100+ SS amps posted about on ug, shouldnt be put over volume 2-3.

and generally speaking, using those amps on their clean, even with a really good pedal, isnt going to cut it.


50 watt tube amps sound really great cranked and like said, unless ur drummer is an animal, will be plenty when used in a band setting for practice or mic'd or unmic'd on stage.


and by my guess, it's closer to 2 1/2X perceived higher volume, tube vs. SS.
Jenneh

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#29
Quote by jj1565


and generally speaking, using those amps on their clean, even with a really good pedal, isnt going to cut it.


sure it might not cut it in terms of sound quality, but in loudness terms there wont be a problem.

and the harmonic distortion inherent to tubes isnt that hard to emulate with diode / FET clipping, they really can get a pretty similar result, certainly similar enough to have plentiful harmonic content around the 2-5 kHz range which is what the ear mostly perceives as loudness.

here are some good examples of what transistors can do http://www.runoffgroove.com/
Last edited by 1337void at May 1, 2008,
#30
Quote by 1337void
sure it might not cut it in terms of sound quality, but in loudness terms there wont be a problem.
.



i'm going to disagree a bit here. yes yes, quality in those SS is poor.

but i also found, in trying to muddle thru with my old MG, that the volume felt lacking as well, because i just couldnt get anything "usable" at higher volumes.

the tone broke down so much at higher volumes, that i couldnt even hear the chords. it was all a muddy, clippy mess.

i mean maybe some guys feel comfortable playing their amps like that, and that's fine. as long as i can go to the bar in the next room, when they are on stage.
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
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#31
Quote by jj1565
i'm going to disagree a bit here. yes yes, quality in those SS is poor.

but i also found, in trying to muddle thru with my old MG, that the volume felt lacking as well, because i just couldnt get anything "usable" at higher volumes.

the tone broke down so much at higher volumes, that i couldnt even hear the chords. it was all a muddy, clippy mess.

i mean maybe some guys feel comfortable playing their amps like that, and that's fine. as long as i can go to the bar in the next room, when they are on stage.


yes nothing good can be expected from an overdriven transistor power amp.
#32
Quote by 1337void
yes nothing good can be expected from an overdriven transistor power amp.

my vox da5's clipping isn't that horrible at all. sounds better than an MG that's not clipping for example (although that means nothing ). a bit harsh, but not really muddy.
#33
The wattage in a tube mostly dictates how early your amp will distort. It's easier to get a power tube overdrive in a lower wattage amp.

What dictates volume is speaker efficiency mostly, i've read about speakers that do like 90dB per watt or something.

So yes, 50w will be plenty. And if you ever have to play a big show, I wouldn't worry, as in most venues amps are mic'd nowadays.
#34
my SS amp sounds better and better up to about 6 and then after that it starts gettin' pretty rough, luckily 6 is about high enough to be heard over a drummer so its all good.
and speaker efficiency is a whole different matter, the main reason tubes sound so much louder is largely due to digital vs analog.
an analog signal will be 100% complete in comparison to the original where as with a clipped digital signal the more you clip the more "sound" is being removed hence the brittle, weak, carcinogenic sound produced at high volumes.
#35
Quote by the-patient
The wattage in a tube mostly dictates how early your amp will distort. It's easier to get a power tube overdrive in a lower wattage amp.

What dictates volume is speaker efficiency mostly, i've read about speakers that do like 90dB per watt or something.

So yes, 50w will be plenty. And if you ever have to play a big show, I wouldn't worry, as in most venues amps are mic'd nowadays.
90dB/watt is nothing, my Celestion G12H does 100dB/watt and some do higher.

And an overdrive pedal generally won't generate that harmonic distortion... Tubes work far more complexly than that.
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#36
Quote by the-patient

What dictates volume is speaker efficiency mostly, i've read about speakers that do like 90dB per watt or something.


From what I understand, the main thing to volume is wattage. Speakers also have a big(ish) role, and with that I mean that most speakers are about the same efficiency - although speakers do matter. Also, other parts of the circuit can affect volume. At least that's my understanding.
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#37
Quote by Fama
. Speakers also have a big(ish) role, and with that I mean that most speakers are about the same efficiency - although speakers do matter. .

Not really For example a Peavey Classic 30 pushing its stock blue marvel will be pretty loud, but the Blue Marvel speaker has an average efficiency of 97DB at 1watt at one meter, now if I replace that with a celestion V30, G12k-75, or Green Back with a efficiency of 100DB at 1 watt at one meter, that would make the Classic 30 as loud as its 50 watt big brother. Then put that same Classic 30 in a 412 cab with an efficiency of 103DB at 1 watt at 1 metter and it will be as loud a 100 watt amp through 1 speaker if not louder . That being said speakers make your amps loud not the amp, the amps wattage plays a part but if its a tube amp and is 25 watts or over it should be able to push enough sound for anyone as long as they willing to add speakers.