#1
Hi there well basically im in an improv class and im improvising over caravan but on the B section theres a G7#9

So would i just use a mixolydian and sharpen the 9th?

any helps would be cool.
Carl
#2
You mean the spanish sounding section? That would be best to improvise on the phrygian with a raised 3rd and 7th.
#4
I meen the swing feel part chords,

{F7- - - Bb7 - - - - Eb7 - - - - Ab7 - - - - G7#9}

so for F7 i use F mix then Bb7 mix and so on but when its comes to the G7#9 i cant just use the straight mix can i?

cheers Carl
#5
G7#9 yes mixolydian #9 would work, but i would use this scale

1, b2, #2, 3, #4, 5, 6, b7

just me personally though
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#6
Try the blues scale for the whole thing and see how it sounds. F Ab Bb B C Eb
#7
Quote by Lefty7Stringer
G7#9 yes mixolydian #9 would work, but i would use this scale

1, b2, #2, 3, #4, 5, 6, b7

just me personally though


hey can you tell me the name of it? cheers?

incidentally i have used the blues scale over whole thing but i need to use modes and what have you and have to embellish the melody. Cheers Carl
#8
For any altered dominant 7 chord, not just this one, you can use the diminished whole tone scale. It ****ing rules for creating tension. In G it would be G Ab Bb Cb Db Eb F G. It's a synthetic scale that is derived from splitting the second into a flat and and sharp second, and by splitting the fifth into a diminished and an augmented fifth. And like I said, since it has neither a 3rd or a 5th in it, it creates all kinds of tension to help bring you back to the beginning of the progression.
#9
Quote by ProgIsGood
For any altered dominant 7 chord, not just this one, you can use the diminished whole tone scale. It ****ing rules for creating tension. In G it would be G Ab Bb Cb Db Eb F G. It's a synthetic scale that is derived from splitting the second into a flat and and sharp second, and by splitting the fifth into a diminished and an augmented fifth. And like I said, since it has neither a 3rd or a 5th in it, it creates all kinds of tension to help bring you back to the beginning of the progression.



Sounds great, cant wait to give it a try buying sample pedal tomorrow so i dont have to wait a week for improv a college to try stuff out properly. Any ideas on creating a jamtrack for it? Cheers Carl

Really interesting stuff btw.
#10
Quote by ProgIsGood
For any altered dominant 7 chord, not just this one, you can use the diminished whole tone scale. It ****ing rules for creating tension. In G it would be G Ab Bb Cb Db Eb F G. It's a synthetic scale that is derived from splitting the second into a flat and and sharp second, and by splitting the fifth into a diminished and an augmented fifth. And like I said, since it has neither a 3rd or a 5th in it, it creates all kinds of tension to help bring you back to the beginning of the progression.


well the Bb and Cb can act as thirds (major and minor) and Db, and Eb can act as 5ths (diminished or augmented)

i personally would use a D natural in the place of a Eb because D is the 5th of G7#9
but using the augmented or diminished fifths could work nicely too, i would use them as passing tones to the natural 5th, the 5th, or the major third
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#11
Well this is all great stuff many Thanks.

Even if i do run the risk of confusing myself ill give it a try tomorrow

keep it coming ! hehe.

:]
#12
or Ab melodic minor #4 or Ab Hungarian minor (harmonic minor #4)
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#13
Quote by Lefty7Stringer
or Ab melodic minor #4 or Ab Hungarian minor (harmonic minor #4)



Nice one, wish i had your knowledge.
#14
well the Bb and Cb can act as thirds (major and minor) and Db, and Eb can act as 5ths (diminished or augmented)

Yeah, thats basically what its doing, but the reason they are referred to the way they are is so that they are "spelled" corectly over chords such as #9, b9, b5, +.
i personally would use a D natural in the place of a Eb because D is the 5th of G7#9
but using the augmented or diminished fifths could work nicely too, i would use them as passing tones to the natural 5th, the 5th, or the major third

Yeah, as bass player, I sometimes hit that on like the 3rd downbeat, just to solidify the tonality, but, most of the time altered dominant 7 chords are only for one measure before they resolve, and they almost always resolve to their fifth, so it's good to play around it.
or Ab melodic minor #4 or Ab Hungarian minor (harmonic minor #4)

This would work well, but it would be better if the chord in question was b9 and not #9.
Sounds great, cant wait to give it a try buying sample pedal tomorrow so i dont have to wait a week for improv a college to try stuff out properly. Any ideas on creating a jamtrack for it?

Since this is a pretty weird scale it would be wise to keep the chord progression simple. I would recommend looping a 2 5 1 in C. This would be D minor 7, G7#9, C maj7. And remember, in almost all swing circumstances, one altered dominant 7 chord can be changed for another, so feel free to replace that G7#9 with b9, b5,+ ...
Last edited by ProgIsGood at Apr 30, 2008,
#15
Quote by Carl_Martin
hey can you tell me the name of it? cheers?

incidentally i have used the blues scale over whole thing but i need to use modes and what have you and have to embellish the melody. Cheers Carl

1, b2, #2, 3, #4, 5, 6, b7
It's obviously not a diatonic scale, but I'd look at it as a Lydian Dominant scale that borrows the b2 and #2 idea from the diminished whole-tone scale. You can use that to create interesting tension with chromaticism. In a G7#9 chord, your notes are G B D F A#. Building the above scale you'd have G Ab A# B C# D E F; the splitting of the seconds allows for some interesting chromatic motion leading up to some of the chord tones, specifically the third and seventh. Make sure you hit the chord tone on the downbeat as well. You could also do a little enclosure and play something like B Ab A# (hitting A# on the downbeat) to emphasize the altered tonality.
#16
Quote by :-D
1, b2, #2, 3, #4, 5, 6, b7
It's obviously not a diatonic scale, but I'd look at it as a Lydian Dominant scale that borrows the b2 and #2 idea from the diminished whole-tone scale. You can use that to create interesting tension with chromaticism. In a G7#9 chord, your notes are G B D F A#. Building the above scale you'd have G Ab A# B C# D E F; the splitting of the seconds allows for some interesting chromatic motion leading up to some of the chord tones, specifically the third and seventh. Make sure you hit the chord tone on the downbeat as well. You could also do a little enclosure and play something like B Ab A# (hitting A# on the downbeat) to emphasize the altered tonality.

Or you could just view it as the HW diminished scale, which it is.
#18
Play the chord tones.

If you need a scale, I'd go with altered (diminished-wholetone is another name, it was mentioned above)
#19
Quote by Carl_Martin
Hi there well basically im in an improv class and im improvising over caravan but on the B section theres a G7#9

So would i just use a mixolydian and sharpen the 9th?

any helps would be cool.
Carl
If the chord changes are fast I would play this...
I think its called the superlocrian mode, it goes: T b2 b3 b4 b5 b6 b7. Its the last mode of the melodic minor, so plan to move into a Ab melodic minor shape.

Ignoring the fact that at first glance all these intervals clash with the chord tones, I'd treat the b3 as a #9 (or #2, whatever) and the b4 as a M3. And treat the b5 as a #4, as as #4 in major tonality is alot more consonant than a b5. So the scale now looks like: T b2 #2 3 #4 b6 b7.

Now I know what that alot of people ar thinking, doesnt the b6 clash with the fifth of the chord? Well, the thing about the fifth is that clashing with it harmonically doesnt produce that much dissonance. Sure the b6 will give a sort of eastern phrygian major feel, but depending on the song thats not a bad thing. I would also *try* to not play that b2, as I've never liked b2's in my major tonality. You might though.

That being said...

If the chord changes are slow I'd synthesis a scale, pretty much play chord tones with added Major 6 and maybe a Perfect 4 or an augmented 4. I wouldnt play a Major second over that, as I dont think it would sound good with that #9. Maybe a M2 if it was an octave lower than that #9 (or a couple of octaves above it), But otherwise.
#20
^That's also yet another name for what I call the altered scale.

Anyway the 1 b2 #2 3 is a very key part of its distinct sound.

As an accompanist I would normally play a 7#9 chord without any fifth to give the improviser freedom to choose.
#21
Quote by Nick_
^That's also yet another name for what I call the altered scale.

Anyway the 1 b2 #2 3 is a very key part of its distinct sound.

As an accompanist I would normally play a 7#9 chord without any fifth to give the improviser freedom to choose.
The fifth doesnt clash that badly. Most accompanist wouldnt care much about the fifth and would omit it, unless it was a b5 or a #5 ofcourse.