#1
K so i am getting into more complex theory and im trying to really drive home theory as a whole relating each piece i already know together to finally try and get the bigger picture...i know that i can never completely understand music and have it mastered but im making connections where i can so i have a few questions i was hoping u could answer since my high school music theory teacher is getting frustrated with all my non curriculum related questions

I already understand all of my scales/modes and chord structure and all that jazz including all the sharp and flat keys and the circle of fifths...i know intervals...in other words i pretty much have a good grasp on the general idea of music i just want to polish up my understanding a bit....so here are some questions i hope u can answer

1. What qualifies any scale to be minor? i know the formulas for all of the minor scale types but some of the modes have been described to me as being dominantly minor...does that mean they ARE minor...this concept has me a bit lost...i have always considered these dominantly minor scales such as dorian and phygian as being minor....

2. I understand in writing and improv that one is not limited to the already created scales/modes and can combine them and whatnot...but are their guidlines for this...? or can i realistically use any number of random increments to create a scale as long as it is between 2-12 notes?

3. When soloing over a chord...i was under the impression that u could play any scale that has the notes of the chord...so if the chord was 1 3 5 b7 (a standard seventh chord) i can play any scale over that chord that has those exact note intervals depending on the key...i think that is correct but i want to make sure

Thanx for all and any help....suggestions for online study material or books/videos to look up is more than welcome...and please feel free to add any other information theory related you think i might not know...again thanks and sorry for the long post
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#2
1. A scale is minor if it contains a minor third (b3).

This should be in Musicians Talk.
#3
1. minor scales have a minor 3rd

2. a scale is defines as having 8 notes, but you can do whatever you want

3. I think, but do nto fully understand your question
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#4
1: a minor third since it would make the tonic triad a minor chord, lowered sixth and seventh are also options, but they are often for a regular sub-mediant and leading tones in the ascending harmonic minor scale, and sometimes in the descending version too (mostly in jazz) so I would say that you mainly need just a minor third above the root

2: probably not, but I could be wrong, but I would just stick to the more conventional forms for know (including modes) and maybe later experiment with that

3: you CAN use any scale, but you need to make sure that it has a connection with to they original key that you're using and deriving that chord from, so maybe you would want to simply start out just going into a different mode of the original scale from which you took the chord, then once you have firmly taken the song into the direction of the new tonic you can switch into that new scale, rinse and repeat as necessary/wanted
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#5
^^ A scale can have any number of notes, eg a penatonic scale has 5 notes, the diatonic scale has seven notes ...
#6
Quote by sacamano79
1. minor scales have a minor 3rd

2. a scale is defines as having 8 notes, but you can do whatever you want

3. I think, but do nto fully understand your question


um well so i thought so on number one...two i think a scale can be anywhere from 2-12 notes...since the chromatic scale has all twelve notes on the musical pallete and it is described as a scale...on three im pretty sure im right but not positive...and i know this was posted in a wrong thread but i have no idea how or if i can move it
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Cry Baby Wah
Hand Built Overdrive Box (From Ts-808 Schematic)
Hand Built Preamp Box
#7
1. Minor scales are different from modes, as the intervals between each scale degree differ. Any scale or mode can be grouped into a "minor" catagory if it has a flatted third scale degree, or the third scale degree is a minor third up from tonic. This does include Aeolian, Dorian, Phyrgian, and harmonic minor modes and scales as well as some non-western altered scales.
2. Every scale has already been created, so there really is no "new" scales to make. Even incredibly strange scales like 10 half steps (semi tones) and one whole step scales already exist. Don't think of making scales when you improv, think of making melodies from those scales. The modes and scales provide you with acceptable pitches to use.
3. Every chord has preferred modes and scales to use. It's a matter of learning the correct scales for a chord, usually dealing with the notes in the chord, it's function, and where it's going. Example: G Dominant seventh chord (G,B,D,F), functions as dominant so G mixolydian mode is preferred. However, C blues scale and C major pentatonic would work too. If the dominant chord continued, with a b9 or #9, or #11, or what have you, then G altered scale (symmetrical diminished) would work, as well as G octatonic. It's just a matter of knowing the modes and how they function. If the same G dominant seventh chord wasn't functioning as a dominant chord (not resolving to C or Gb) then you wouldn't want to use altered scale or mixolydian mode as heavily because the typical chord relationship of Dominant to Tonic doesn't exist. Hope that helps.
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#8
Quote by musicology
1. Minor scales are different from modes, as the intervals between each scale degree differ. Any scale or mode can be grouped into a "minor" catagory if it has a flatted third scale degree, or the third scale degree is a minor third up from tonic. This does include Aeolian, Dorian, Phyrgian, and harmonic minor modes and scales as well as some non-western altered scales.
2. Every scale has already been created, so there really is no "new" scales to make. Even incredibly strange scales like 10 half steps (semi tones) and one whole step scales already exist. Don't think of making scales when you improv, think of making melodies from those scales. The modes and scales provide you with acceptable pitches to use.
3. Every chord has preferred modes and scales to use. It's a matter of learning the correct scales for a chord, usually dealing with the notes in the chord, it's function, and where it's going. Example: G Dominant seventh chord (G,B,D,F), functions as dominant so G mixolydian mode is preferred. However, C blues scale and C major pentatonic would work too. If the dominant chord continued, with a b9 or #9, or #11, or what have you, then G altered scale (symmetrical diminished) would work, as well as G octatonic. It's just a matter of knowing the modes and how they function. If the same G dominant seventh chord wasn't functioning as a dominant chord (not resolving to C or Gb) then you wouldn't want to use altered scale or mixolydian mode as heavily because the typical chord relationship of Dominant to Tonic doesn't exist. Hope that helps.


On #1 yes i realize scales and modes are seperate and i thought that all u needed was a flat third so i was correct....and on #2 yes i know all scales have been created but when not knowing the name for a scale i just consider it made up....and for #3 im not sure where exactly u are running with that why is mixolydian a good choice in that case? dominant? could u maybe link me to a good explanation of this since im sure its not simple at all...i might actually undestand what u mean but not realize it in the way u explaned it...
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#9
Dominant chords have the flat seventh on them (or fourth scale degree in the key), so in the example of G7, the notes of the chord are as follows:
G B D F

G A B C D E F G is G mixolydian.
G A B C D E F# G is G major, and the F# doesn't work.
G A B D E G is G pentatonic
G A C D E G is C pentatonic

All those scales work, it all depends on the melody you are trying to create.
I hope that helps. I don't know of any websites that has this information. I just know it from school. Maybe you can google search for jazz modes or jazz improv theory or scale and chord relationships or something. I'm sure there is something out there. If you are still stuck let me know and maybe I can send you some stuff that I have to clear it up.
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#10
Oops. I actually meant all of those scales except for G major (G ionian) work. Sorry.
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#11
I didn't know any theory at all so I decided to audit an "intro to music theory" class at my school and its helped me tons sofar (class is about 1/2 over). I strongly recommend it as a teacher can show you things that you may miss by reading theory online or in a book. There's always youtube as well but all the lessons are scattered and unorganized

I'm not anywhere close to a theory guru but the simplest thing I noticed about minor/major chords differences since I've been in the class that wasn't so evident before is that if you take any major chord that you play (barre or open) and identify the third in it, you can just move the finger fretting that third back one fret and you've instantly switched to a minor chord without even thinking about it - giving a more somber tone to whatever you're playing.

I know i know, but its cool to a beginner in theory :-)
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Last edited by mlfarrell at May 5, 2008,