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#1
when writing song what scales, modes etc did kirk prefferably used, also what scales and or modes are mor common in the thrash metal genre, im thinking the minor penatonic scale (im not sure of what mode this is if it has a name seeing as it is derived from the minor scale which is aeolian if someone has the actual name for it please tell me), and the modes aeolian, locrian, dorian and phrgyian
#5
Quote by F8iscruel
i thought kerry king used locrian and the penatonic
He uses the b5 interval. To consider Slayer's music to be Locrian based is wrong.
#7
Quote by dogismycopilot
Kerry King uses harmonic minor mostly. That could be the locrian, i dont know.
No.

Slayer uses a lot of chromaticism in a minor context which makes it hard to talk about scales.
#8
Quote by bangoodcharlote
No.

Slayer uses a lot of chromaticism in a minor context which makes it hard to talk about scales.

Hahah well, you are wrong. Chromatics he does use, but you are wrong in saying "No" to my statement.
#9
His early work made frequent use of the minor scale with the occasional bit of phrygian and locrian thrown in. He started using the minor pentatonic with greater frequency starting around the Load era, but he still commonly uses the minor scale.

Hahah well, you are wrong. Chromatics he does use, but you are wrong in saying "No" to my statement.


He does not use harmonic minor or locrian.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#10
Quote by Archeo Avis
His early work made frequent use of the minor scale with the occasional bit of phrygian and locrian thrown in. He started using the minor pentatonic with greater frequency starting around the Load era, but he still commonly uses the minor scale.


He does not use harmonic minor or locrian.

Yes he does.

EDIT: Harmonic minor that is.
#11
Quote by dogismycopilot
EDIT: Harmonic minor that is.
Not really.

He uses Phrygian Dominant a bit, but to consider E Phrygian Dominant the same as A Harmonic Minor is as silly as considering "Angel of Death" to be in the key of G.
#14
Quote by bangoodcharlote
I know I'm right because I have a Doctor of Philosophy degree in music theory and teach at Temple University's music school.


He may have apples but you just busted out the cherry pie!
#15
Ha, I don't have a PhD in music and I don't teach at Temple. I said that to illustrate that I can make outrageous claims as well (he claims to have met Kerry King).
#16
Quote by bangoodcharlote
Ha, I don't have a PhD in music and I don't teach at Temple. I said that to illustrate that I can make outrageous claims as well (he claims to have met Kerry King).


Of course, it doesn't matter if he's met Kerry King, and it doesn't matter what Kerry King said. Looking at Slayer's music, there is very little (if any) harmonic minor to be found, and saying that he "mostly" uses harmonic minor is blatantly wrong.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#17
I wouldn't trust Kerry King's analysis of his own music. He doesn't seem like the type to be well-schooled in music. The undeniable fact is that his music is generally minor with a shit-ton of chromaticism, and that's that.
Quote by dudetheman
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Metalheads are the worst thing that ever happened to metal.
#18
yeah slayers music is "minor key" atonal. which isn't that easy to do and make it sound good. i'd say minor key in the broadest sense of the term BECAUSE it is so atonal. but i'll be damned if it doesn't sound friggin' sweet.
#19
Quote by z4twenny
yeah slayers music is "minor key" atonal. which isn't that easy to do and make it sound good. i'd say minor key in the broadest sense of the term BECAUSE it is so atonal. but i'll be damned if it doesn't sound friggin' sweet.

Totally. My favorite music to jam over is minor key atonal, as you describe, just because I can throw around pretty much any interval in the context of a lick or as a melodic note and get away with sounding like a competent guitarist.

Also, why do people always assume that metal players use Locrian just because it sounds ugly and sinister? I don't think I could name a metal song that utilizes Locrian at all off the top of my head. The flat fifth is used often, but it's more often utilized as part of the blues scale.
#20
Quote by dogismycopilot
I know i am right because i asked him when he visited Guitar Trader.

How about them apples?


gtfo


Way to be a jackass even when you're wrong. He doesn't consistently use harmonic minor at all; it would be tough to pin his playing down to very many specific scales because his soloing style is so chaotic.
#21
I don't recall ever recognizing Harmonic Minor in a Slayer song, much less Kerry King's solos. I remember hearing. "Weeeeow wuh WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOOOOOO burp bo dop BINGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG urgadurgadurga waaaaaaaaaaap waaaaaaaap werrrrraaaaaaaap". Not much tonality there.
#22
^have you noticed that when the kerry king solo's are played, the rhthym guitar is turned down put to either the left or right speaker?

Lol-full thread

I've always tuned out whenever kerry kind starts solo-ing, I love their music but I hate their solo's (just like dragonforce). Does he use a leading tone over minor chords? If so, he uses harmonic minor. Does he use a b6 over major chords? If so he uses phrygian dominant. And yes, I know thats over-simplfied.

Locrian is most certainly NOT ugly, or useless. If used right it sounds confused and dark. It's used most in jazz than in anything else. Use it over Xm7b5 chords and other half-diminished chords. And for ****s sake, dont mindless shred with it (as someone else on these forums said), I get the best results when I play it slowly, meaningfully and without sustaining too long over the b2 and b5 and 4 intervals.
Last edited by demonofthenight at May 1, 2008,
#23
Does he use a leading tone over minor chords? If so, he uses harmonic minor. Does he use a b6 over major chords? If so he uses phrygian dominant. And yes, I know thats over-simplfied.


He uses everything over any chord. The statement that he "mostly" uses harmonic minor is simply wrong.

Locrian is most certainly NOT ugly, or useless. If used right it sounds confused and dark. It's used most in jazz than in anything else. Use it over Xm7b5 chords and other half-diminished chords. And for ****s sake, dont mindless shred with it (as someone else on these forums said), I get the best results when I play it slowly, meaningfully and without sustaining too long over the b2 and b5 and 4 intervals.


Personally, I find locrian to be one of the most beautiful modes if used correctly. I wrote a short piece using the mode a while back to showcase what can be done with it if you just stop associating it with metal, it might still be floating around the forum somewhere.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#24
Quote by demonofthenight
I've always tuned out whenever kerry kind starts solo-ing, I love their music but I hate their solo's (just like dragonforce). Does he use a leading tone over minor chords? If so, he uses harmonic minor. Does he use a b6 over major chords? If so he uses phrygian dominant. And yes, I know thats over-simplfied.

It's oversimplified to the point of being incorrect though; for example, if he's playing over an E minor chord and plays G F# F E D# D, he's played chromatically; the D# wouldn't indicate that he's using harmonic minor, it's just part of a chromatic run.
Quote by Archeo Avis
Personally, I find locrian to be one of the most beautiful modes if used correctly.

As do I, it's really quite amazing if used correctly.
#25
Quote by :-D
It's oversimplified to the point of being incorrect though; for example, if he's playing over an E minor chord and plays G F# F E D# D, he's played chromatically; the D# wouldn't indicate that he's using harmonic minor, it's just part of a chromatic run.
Its not wrong most of the time. How much chromatics does he do? Is it a solo of JUST chromatics?
#26
Quote by demonofthenight
Its not wrong most of the time. How much chromatics does he do? Is it a solo of JUST chromatics?

I'm not very familiar with his soloing in general, but there is a lot of chromatic motion in what I've heard; his solos are completely chaotic and involve quite a few straight chromatic runs.
#27
You guys are too much.

I have met Kerry King and you are still wrong. He said, "I mostly use harmonic minor when i play".

Im not a fan of Slayer or anything of that general pool, but i believe what comes out of his mouth to be true.

Im done arguing.
#28
Quote by dogismycopilot
You guys are too much.

I have met Kerry King and you are still wrong. He said, "I mostly use harmonic minor when i play".

Im not a fan of Slayer or anything of that general pool, but i believe what comes out of his mouth to be true.

Im done arguing.

Sorry to extend this further, but can you find some examples of his use of the harmonic minor? I haven't come across any particular solos in which it's jumped out at me. Maybe he's not entirely sure what the scale is, I don't know, but any examples would be useful.
#29
Quote by bangoodcharlote
Ha, I don't have a PhD in music and I don't teach at Temple. I said that to illustrate that I can make outrageous claims as well (he claims to have met Kerry King).


That's not really that outrageous (meeting Kerry King that is). My friend met Kerry King and got him to sign his cell phone (he didn't have a guitar or any paper appearantly...) it was like 2 or 3 years ago, and Kerry King had gone to a local guitar store to...I'm not really sure why, I think it was to "give lessons," which was more to teach people how to play Slayer songs...but if he'll go to my ****hole city, then I guess he'd go anywhere... my friend did say that it didn't really seem like he knew what he was talking about.
#30
All Kerry does is rape the whammy bar.
Jeff is who you should be paying attention to in Slayer.

On topic, Kurt uses alot of Pentatonic stuff.
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#31
Quote by dogismycopilot
You guys are too much.

I have met Kerry King and you are still wrong. He said, "I mostly use harmonic minor when i play".

Im not a fan of Slayer or anything of that general pool, but i believe what comes out of his mouth to be true.

Im done arguing.


It doesn't matter what he says. If I write a song in E minor and call it F major, it's still E minor.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#33
loads of phyrigian (all though this may be more hetfeild) some minor pents and some minor blues, a little bit of harmonic minor, minor in general, and then some major scales
#35
Quote by Archeo Avis
His early work made frequent use of the minor scale with the occasional bit of phrygian and locrian thrown in. He started using the minor pentatonic with greater frequency starting around the Load era, but he still commonly uses the minor scale.


He does not use harmonic minor or locrian.


He does use harmonic minor (actually the 5th mode of it, phrygian dominant) in the solo of... Dead Skin Mask i think it was.
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#36
wow i left this thread alone for a day and half of it is an argument about 2 miles over my head :sigh:
#37
Kirk Hammet uses Harmonic Minor, perfect example:

Eye of the Beholder
"Virtually no one who is taught Relativity continues to read the Bible."

#38
Quote by Bubonic Chronic
Kirk Hammet uses Harmonic Minor, perfect example:

Eye of the Beholder

We were actually debating Kerry King's use (or lack thereof) of harmonic minor.

TS: Listen to "Wherever I May Roam" to get a feel for the Phrygian Dominant scale.
#39
I don't even think King knows H. Minor.
"Virtually no one who is taught Relativity continues to read the Bible."

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