#1
I recently had a discussion with my mom who is a composer and some of my friends who are guitarists and such about the current situation in the musical field. I come from a classical background but mostly listen to rock and jazz music and have been emersed in both cultures and have grown unhappy with both.

In classical music people who professionalize in an instrument competitively attempt to master every technique for it. Though I think this is a good aspect and is necessary, I feel the way the approach this work is highly unnecessary and is almost like becoming a slave to the instrument. And to become a well respected composer in this field, you have to take compositional lessons from the right person that has the highest chair in the most prestige university. The most modern classical compositions from that field are, at least in my opinion, very bad, and are almost completely unenjoyable to anybody but their fellow composers.

In rock music its almost the complete opposite in some ways. There are so many big, mainstream bands, where each person barely knows how to use their instrument and has almost no if any knowledge of music theory. There tends to be this whole "yeah dude lets start a band and become rockstars!" attitude that I just can't stand. And many people that have a more significant knowledge of music theory completely dismiss this form of music as all simple when there is a lot of complex and interesting rock music out there.

I'm just mostly unhappy with this because I want something in the middle and there doesn't seem to be much wiggle room in any of this. Many contemorary classical composers don't acknowledge rock music and it makes a more popular music approach very difficult to gain notice from orchestras. Both industries seem highly corrupt whether its selling out to make more money or writing almost unenjoyable pieces to impress your other composer pals. I was just wondering what some of you other people's opinions are on this. Please don't flame, if you have nothing productive to say don't haha. I may have exaggerated a bit but this is what I've noticed recently. Anyone else feel similarly?
#3
Wait.... hold on.... still ..... comprehending........ so many words.......
Last edited by Tri-Dragon at May 1, 2008,
#6
You don't have to be good looking and attractive to be a classical musician.
#7
go hang out with the pretentious kids in the music theory forum. im sure theyll love this.
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I have no opinion on this matter.
#9
try listening to the metal gear solid 2 theme

(when i get obsessed with something, it's all i can think about)

and i think a lot of metal (especially bands from europe) fits into what you're looking for - they have neoclassical influences, compositional elements, sometimes orchestras (or at least intricate keyboards emulating orchestras), etc. as well as the other end of the spectrum you're using to look at things with
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#10
Quote by TisPyon
prog rock ftw


/thread. NOW.
Anyone who thinks that music these days is dead doesn't listen to enough music.
#11
Well, I'm sort of similar to you.

I've been playing violin for 8 years and I've been studying classical music since last year. I was also really into rock/metal. So, I see your frustrations. Sometimes classical (especially modern) is too detached from practicality and earthly manners, and sometimes rock/metal is too dumbed down and unfulfilling. But you shouldn't let that have an influence on you. Music is a very malleable thing that you can shape into whatever you want. You don't have to pick a side. Create your own.

Personally, I'm going to study jazz and composition in college and I will use that knowledge however I want. I can apply jazz voicing leading to a rock tune if I wanted to. I could write a progressive modern rock symphony if I wanted to. I could interpret a Verdi piece with contemporary instruments if I wanted to. My point is that I'm not trying to be bounded by conventions, and neither should you. If you're not satisfied with the current affair of things, take action.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#13
I think you're just over-analyzing it. Enjoy rock for what it is, enjoy orchestra for what it is. There are very many technical rock bands that play hard stuff. Unfortunately, not very much of it is catchy and heartfelt as well. I think at some point, being technical and mastering their instrument makes it hard for a musician to reconnect with their own style that expresses them as an individual. Its not impossible to find a musician that is both a virtuoso and can really communicate who they are and what they feel with their writing. But they do exist.
We're only strays.
#14
ever heard of antoine dufour?
violin+percussive acoustic=very good middle ground
Quote by H4t3BR33D3R
fourteen?
For Christ sake she probably couldn't get to the center of a Tootsie Pop let alone suck your **** properly. Just get someone your own age you tosser.
#15
There are a lot of rock bands (and punk, pop, metal..) that don't know very much theory. There are some bands that do know theory, and do use it in all their songs.

I can think of a good example. Do you know of the band queen? Have a listen to bohemian rhapsody, I think there is quite a lot of theory used to write that. The interesting thing about queen is their music is so many different styles (country, rock, hard rock, and a few other things). So if you didn't like bohemian rhapsody, you might want to listen to a few more of their songs. They have a lot of theory knowledge and their songs use it. I think I have turned this into a big advertisment for queen.... But they are a good band, and they do use theory. So its kind of on topic for this thread.
#16
This is why Fank Zappa descended onto the Earth. To fix frustrations like these.
#17
Check out East Village Opera Company.

A good metal/rock band dedicated to making faithful interpretations of classical music.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#18
Prog rock.

Symphony X.

You're welcome.

Also note: Anything and everything that Xiaoxi says and/or has said will be useful to you in some way. If anyone understands what you're feeling, it's him.
#19
Quote by Quintessence153

Also note: Anything and everything that Xiaoxi says and/or has said will be useful to you in some way. If anyone understands what you're feeling, it's him.

Eat fried chicken everyday.

Drive while being occupied with other things.

Condoms are for nubs.



...modes and scales are still useless.


Quote by PhoenixGRM
Hey guys could you spare a minute to Vote for my band. Go to the site Search our band Listana with CTRL+F for quick and vote Thank you .
Quote by sam b
Voted for Patron Çıldırdı.

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Quote by PhoenixGRM
But our Band is Listana
#20
Quote by Xiaoxi
Eat fried chicken everyday.
Drive while being occupied with other things.
Condoms are for nubs.

His wisdom.. is like a blowtorch to my face..
I.. I have much to learn.
#21
Quote by Zugunruhe
go hang out with the pretentious kids in the music theory forum. im sure theyll love this.

I object the use of the term "pretentious", my good sir. We in MT simply take our studies seriously and enjoy our discourses on the subject at hand. Of course we would love a subject of this nature to discourse upon. TS do please feel free to join us in MT, where I am sure you would get a decent insight into your dilemma.
Ka pu te ruha ka hao te rangatahi.
#22
Quote by Muzikh
His wisdom.. is like a blowtorch to my face..
I.. I have much to learn.

May I suggest getting a 2" notebook for all the wisdom to come.

:P

But seriously, if you really want music that is not overly elaborate and pretentious and technically absurd, yet intellectually challenging and interesting, listen to jazz. I really believe it really has a perfect balance of the two aspects. Plus it's just great to listen to. It's also very beneficial to learn.

...modes and scales are still useless.


Quote by PhoenixGRM
Hey guys could you spare a minute to Vote for my band. Go to the site Search our band Listana with CTRL+F for quick and vote Thank you .
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Voted for Patron Çıldırdı.

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Quote by PhoenixGRM
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#23
Quote by Xiaoxi
Eat fried chicken everyday.

I strongly disagree with this statement. This logic is so inherently flawed that even a below-average field mouse could see through the obvious fallacies and gaping holes of reasoning. Everyone knows that Big Macs are where it's at.
Drive while being occupied with other things.

Condoms are for nubs.

No arguments.
#24
Quote by Quintessence153
I strongly disagree with this statement. This logic is so inherently flawed that even a below-average field mouse could see through the obvious fallacies and gaping holes of reasoning. Everyone knows that Big Macs are where it's at.

How about...fried chicken for the entree and then wash it down with some Big Macs?

...modes and scales are still useless.


Quote by PhoenixGRM
Hey guys could you spare a minute to Vote for my band. Go to the site Search our band Listana with CTRL+F for quick and vote Thank you .
Quote by sam b
Voted for Patron Çıldırdı.

Thanks
Quote by PhoenixGRM
But our Band is Listana
#25
Quote by Xiaoxi
How about...fried chicken for the entree and then wash it down with some Big Macs?

Now you're gettin' it.
#26
This is why Frank Zappa descended onto the Earth. To fix frustrations like these.


You sir must be a genius haha. Anytime he worked with an orchestra he would complain about how uptight and unwilling they were to work with his unique and original music :P

think you're just over-analyzing it. Enjoy rock for what it is, enjoy orchestra for what it is. There are very many technical rock bands that play hard stuff. Unfortunately, not very much of it is catchy and heartfelt as well.


The problem is is that it limits what you can do professionally. Orchestras, expect for the "pop orchestras", seem to for the most part ignore more rock\jazz type music and tend to not recognize you unless you have gone through all these ridiculous "necessary " steps. If you want to write a rock or jazz type piece for orchestra it would be extraordinarily difficult from what I've seen to get it played by a big orchestra unless you work at an university and have had theory lessons from the top names.

Personally, I'm going to study jazz and composition in college and I will use that knowledge however I want. I can apply jazz voicing leading to a rock tune if I wanted to. I could write a progressive modern rock symphony if I wanted to. I could interpret a Verdi piece with contemporary instruments if I wanted to. My point is that I'm not trying to be bounded by conventions, and neither should you. If you're not satisfied with the current affair of things, take action.


This is why I've been leaning more towards a jazz approach and taking influences from rock and classical instead of other ways. It seems to be the best approach for someone like me but I'm just frustrated with the way music is approached by a large majority.