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#1
Which of these heads gets a more tight/sexy distortion/gain? I have a 212 Spider Valve right now and I honestly really like it (I don't get why everyone hates on Line6) and was thinking about just upgrading to the HD100 (big version of what I already have) someone told me that wasn't a good idea, so I was looking up stuff and 'Bogner' makes the tubes in this amp (which I HAVE played and liked) but 'Deizel is supposed to be more metal and I assume people are referring to the distortion. Tool uses Deizel. I like his distortion. He uses the Herbert, is that any good? And I hear that the Uberschall is the most metal Bogner...
True? False?
Any other suggested heads welcome. As long as they are high quality, and can get loud.
Also, what cab should I get to compliment whichever head I get?
#2
are you made of money? Those heads alone are $2000+
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#3
Everyone hates on Line 6 because they're digital. And they sound digital.

Get a Mesa or a 5150/6505 for tight distortion. Bogners are like $1,000,000 or in that range.
#4
Bogner is the best. I'm not really basing this on anything, since you didn't bother to describe what you were looking for (it would help), but I'm going to recommend Bogner anyway.

Get a Mesa or a 5150/6505 for tight distortion.


Mesa is most certainly not "tight"
Mesa is the anti-tight.

Bogners are like $1,000,000 or in that range.


They start at around $2,500
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#5
The first thing you need to ask yourself.

Do you have over $4,000 to spend on a Bogner or Diezel half-stack?

If so, make a trip to a boutique amp dealer and try them yourself. You definitely don't want to spend that much money on something that someone you don't know recomends.
Dissonance is Bliss


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#6
The Uber is brewtal.
The Diezel is Br00tal.

Really, in that price range, you just need to play them both.

Also, both companies make matching cabs for those heads, so I would assume those would be best.
#7
Quote by Archeo Avis

They start at around $2,500


I guess it's okay that you didn't pick up on some of my very subtle sarcasm...
#8
Well, I'm not made of money or anything but I'm going to have an epic summer job where I anticpate making somewhere around $3000. And I could always buy the head used somewhere making this even more possible.

I play Metalz and some Alternative (but for the alternative band, we use metal distortion anyway, we just don't growl, or have diminished riffs). And I would ASSUME both of these have decent sounding cleans, I can't imagine a $2500 amp head having ****ty cleans. We mostly play distorted anyway.

I've got a PRS SE Custom and I changed out the pickups to Dimarzio Breed/X2N. So it's pretty brutal/sexy/hott.

Does no one like the Deizel? That was the direction I was kind of leaning but it sounds like the Uberschall is better... I've played the Deizel at Guitar Center, but that was a long time ago and all I can remeber was that I loved it. I've never played an Uberschall though.
#9
Quote by shabooty
Which of these heads gets a more tight/sexy distortion/gain? I have a 212 Spider Valve right now and I honestly really like it (I don't get why everyone hates on Line6) and was thinking about just upgrading to the HD100 (big version of what I already have) someone told me that wasn't a good idea, so I was looking up stuff and 'Bogner' makes the tubes in this amp (which I HAVE played and liked) but 'Deizel is supposed to be more metal and I assume people are referring to the distortion. Tool uses Deizel. I like his distortion. He uses the Herbert, is that any good? And I hear that the Uberschall is the most metal Bogner...
True? False?
Any other suggested heads welcome. As long as they are high quality, and can get loud.
Also, what cab should I get to compliment whichever head I get?

Bogner doesn't make the tubes in your amp. Bogner designed the power section of your amp. Bogner and Diezel both make equally brutal amps. The Uberschall and the Herbert are both fantastic and fantastically expensive.
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#10
Quote by shabooty
Well, I'm not made of money or anything but I'm going to have an epic summer job where I anticpate making somewhere around $3000. And I could always buy the head used somewhere making this even more possible.

I play Metalz and some Alternative (but for the alternative band, we use metal distortion anyway, we just don't growl, or have diminished riffs). And I would ASSUME both of these have decent sounding cleans, I can't imagine a $2500 amp head having ****ty cleans. We mostly play distorted anyway.

I've got a PRS SE Custom and I changed out the pickups to Dimarzio Breed/X2N. So it's pretty brutal/sexy/hott.

Does no one like the Deizel? That was the direction I was kind of leaning but it sounds like the Uberschall is better... I've played the Deizel at Guitar Center, but that was a long time ago and all I can remeber was that I loved it. I've never played an Uberschall though.


If youre not in a gigging band, theres no point in getting a bogner of a deizel.
Quote by tarlkea
When I say offensive I mean offensive like dressing up as superman in a wheel chair offensive, not penis suit offensive.
#11
Im anxious to know where you can purchase Bogner amps. I really have no idea, even with hours of searching online.
#12
Quote by dogismycopilot
Im anxious to know where you can purchase Bogner amps. I really have no idea, even with hours of searching online.


Bogner dealers....
Quote by tarlkea
When I say offensive I mean offensive like dressing up as superman in a wheel chair offensive, not penis suit offensive.
#13
Wild West Guitars in LA sales them. If you want, I can e-mail Mark and get some info. I go Wild West whenever I am in Southern California.
#14
We are going to start gigging later this month and one of my friends (from another band that plays shows every weekend) says that my amp is probably going to be way too small. So I'm going to have to do a few sets without a BIG amp and hopefully by the end of summer I will have enough money for a nice one. But yes, we will be playing shows and needing bigger amps.
#15
Quote by dannyisokay
I guess it's okay that you didn't pick up on some of my very subtle sarcasm...


You have no idea how to use sarcasm.

If youre not in a gigging band, theres no point in getting a bogner of a deizel.


...unless you want the tone that they provide.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#16
Quote by Archeo Avis
Mesa is most certainly not "tight"
Mesa is the anti-tight.

You most certainly don't know what you're talking about.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#18
Quote by shabooty
Well, I'm not made of money or anything but I'm going to have an epic summer job where I anticpate making somewhere around $3000. And I could always buy the head used somewhere making this even more possible.

I play Metalz and some Alternative (but for the alternative band, we use metal distortion anyway, we just don't growl, or have diminished riffs). And I would ASSUME both of these have decent sounding cleans, I can't imagine a $2500 amp head having ****ty cleans. We mostly play distorted anyway.

I've got a PRS SE Custom and I changed out the pickups to Dimarzio Breed/X2N. So it's pretty brutal/sexy/hott.

Does no one like the Deizel? That was the direction I was kind of leaning but it sounds like the Uberschall is better... I've played the Deizel at Guitar Center, but that was a long time ago and all I can remeber was that I loved it. I've never played an Uberschall though.

have to play them both. It's preference between them. The Uberschall is a little looser, huge bottom end. It's not a razor tight amp. The Herbert is tighter, but still has a huge lowend. I prefer the Diezel by a mile, but that's personal preference.

Adam Jones uses the VH4, not the Herbert, along with a Marshall Super Bass. The VH4 is tighter, but I prefer the aggression of the Herbert.

The Uberschall runs around $2600USD new, around $1800-2k depending on revision and condition. Consensus is the newer revisions like the "blue" sound better. The Herbert runs about $4300 new, and about $3k-3200 used. Consensus is the revisions with the external bias test points sound better than previous versions.
"The fool doth think he is wise, but the wiseman knows himself to be a fool." - W.S.
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#19
Uberschall vs. XTC
and
Herbert vs. VH4

Also, where the hell can you buy these?
#20
I tried a dump load of higher end heads and cabs. The rivera knucklehead tre was the one that finished on top. But thats just to my ears. Your going to find out some really expensive amps have not the greatest cleans.
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#22
Quote by Archeo Avis
You have no idea how to use sarcasm.



Chill D-bag...

I said the amp costs $1,000,000...

I didn't mean it...

It's overstatement...
#23
You can't go wrong with either. I'm fond of the Bogner tone(s). That's my dream amp. I have to go now though, I can't afford to post in this thread
#24
The only reason I'd actually get one of those would be if I was recording a lot- the thing about gigging with amps like that is either you won't be able to turn it up loud enough to get the true sound of the amp or you'll end up putting it through a PA system that will bring the tone level of the amp back down.
Quote by corduroyEW
Cheap amps are "that bad". They suck up your tone like cocaine at Kate Moss' party.


I am Michael!
#25
My question to the TS is, are you in a gigging recording band? because IMO if youre not, theres no reason to buy an amp like that. There really isnt.
Quote by tarlkea
When I say offensive I mean offensive like dressing up as superman in a wheel chair offensive, not penis suit offensive.
#26
There is too a reason. Maybe he just wants one.

Really, if you've got the cash, go for it.
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#27
Quote by The Charm
There is too a reason. Maybe he just wants one.

Really, if you've got the cash, go for it.


Eh I guess. I just think its really dumb when people buy boutique stacks that just sit in their houses and get jammed on.
Quote by tarlkea
When I say offensive I mean offensive like dressing up as superman in a wheel chair offensive, not penis suit offensive.
#28
Quote by Teh Forest King
Eh I guess. I just think its really dumb when people buy boutique stacks that just sit in their houses and get jammed on.

so sorry you don't approve of how people use amps they spend their own money on.
"The fool doth think he is wise, but the wiseman knows himself to be a fool." - W.S.
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#29
Quote by Teh Forest King
Eh I guess. I just think its really dumb when people buy boutique stacks that just sit in their houses and get jammed on.


gtfo i can spend my money however i please.

----

at that price, it's preference as to whether you prefer bogner or diezel.
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#30
Quote by shabooty
I have a 212 Spider Valve right now and I honestly really like it (I don't get why everyone hates on Line6)
Generally, people don't like the Spider 2's and 3's. But most like the Flextones, Vettas and Spider Valves as well as the Pod multi-effects. As a Spider 3 owner myself, I'm looking forward to upgrading it, but it works fine as a practice amp.
#31
lol i knew id get flamed.

anyways, Id get the bogner. deizels are kinda sterile.
Quote by tarlkea
When I say offensive I mean offensive like dressing up as superman in a wheel chair offensive, not penis suit offensive.
#32
IF you have 3000 to spend I would go buy a Bogner Uberschall head and cab. It is the best you can buy.
#33
Diezel would be my choice over Bogner. The Uberschall is alright but just can't compete with the sheer intensity of the Herbert.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#34
Don't get either one. I think both the Uberschall and Herbert are both extremely overrated amps. They do provide great tone, but for the money, there IS better. I think part of the reason they're so hyped about is because they're rare to find. I have played on the Uberschall before, and its cleans are awesome, and while the high gain is awesome, it was missing something for me. I have heard clips of the Diezel but never played one, but going by them I actually preferred my 5150's lead channel for high gain.

The Mako Mak2 is absolutely incredible, and its $2250 leaving you with $750, more than enough to get a nice 4x12 cab. I believe they're the current amp of choice for the guitarists of the band The Absence, replacing their older Mako Dorados.
#35
Quote by rwalby9
The Mako Mak2 is absolutely incredible, and its $2250 leaving you with $750, more than enough to get a nice 4x12 cab. I believe they're the current amp of choice for the guitarists of the band The Absence, replacing their older Mako Dorados.


True. Good call.

I do recommend looking outside of Bogner and Deizel. Id look into the VHT ultralead too.
Quote by tarlkea
When I say offensive I mean offensive like dressing up as superman in a wheel chair offensive, not penis suit offensive.
#36
Quote by Teh Forest King
True. Good call.

I do recommend looking outside of Bogner and Deizel. Id look into the VHT ultralead too.

The VHT UL is $3400, how is that different than either of those other boutique amps, other than preference. Nothing sounds like those amps, none of those amps sound the same, and it's all preference between them.
"The fool doth think he is wise, but the wiseman knows himself to be a fool." - W.S.
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#37
Quote by colin617
Wild West Guitars in LA sales them. If you want, I can e-mail Mark and get some info. I go Wild West whenever I am in Southern California.

Yea i'm in San Diego and i cant find anyone that sells them. I got turned onto them when i say Dave Kushner playing them. Havent herd a good clip of his playing, but the name Bogner has popped up here and there.


Bogner dealers? C'mon? What are you 12? Use a little more imagination if you are going to be a smartass. Otherwise, shut up.
#38
Well I have an Uberschall and for me it is THE amp to get. You can get a blues/jazz tone up to the most brutal death metal sound you can imagine. People saying the Uberschall is overrated have never played it or with ****ty guitars or bad EQ. It's also an amp you can plug & play, no need for OD pedals to tighten the sound, it's as tight as a nun's behind, even at max gain.
I never played a Diezel before so I can't judge on them, but from what I heard about people who own both the Uberschall has a bigger low end and sounds darker while the Diezels are more versatile (3 channel).
But yeah if you're considering buying one of those, try them out extensively. I can provide you with some sweet Uberschall settings to try.
Check my profile blog for some Uberschall sounds (crappy youtube quality however).
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#39
Quote by Erock503
The VHT UL is $3400, how is that different than either of those other boutique amps, other than preference. Nothing sounds like those amps, none of those amps sound the same, and it's all preference between them.


Its not its just got a better sound IMO. So im telling him it would be worth a look too. Hes asking for other peoples opinions, and my opinion is that he should look at it because I think its a better amp than the other too for that price. So if hes looking up at that price, he might as well try everything right? He has no limits.
Quote by tarlkea
When I say offensive I mean offensive like dressing up as superman in a wheel chair offensive, not penis suit offensive.
#40
Quote by The Charm
There is too a reason. Maybe he just wants one.

Really, if you've got the cash, go for it.


Best. Reasoning. EVER. Well said!
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