#1
well i was trying to do metal songs...
my 1º attempt was making a power or folk metal:but i lack knowledge to do it (main scales or keys for this genre)
my 2º was making a trash song but after a time they como repetitive and i dunno what notes fits well for solos or not-rythm riffs
my 3º was doing a song based in metallica but i cant fine their main scales or keys..

so in fact: -i lack knowledge!!- is there something you guys can help me? i was reading the theory thread but it seems doesnt help in this.. ty in advance
#3
------------------------
------------------------
------------------------
------------------0-2--
--------0-1-2-3-------
0-1-3------------------

That's known as the 'Metal scale', work around it. Cliff Burton used it a lot. As for the solos, crank up the lead guitar and pay no attention to the riffs.
#4
Quote by pwrmax
As for the solos, crank up the lead guitar and pay no attention to the riffs.

I'm not understanding why you wouldn't pay attention to the riffs backing the solo. The harmonic context is a wee bit important.

And there's no "metal scale", that's really just an E minor blues scale with some extra notes. Or, if you're thinking modal scales, E Phrygian with an added b5; perhaps E Locrian with an added 5. Many options.
Last edited by :-D at May 3, 2008,
#5
Quote by :-D
I'm not understanding why you wouldn't pay attention to the riffs backing the solo. The harmonic context is a wee bit important.


In my opinion, chromatic solos sound good in metal. When I said to not pay attention I meant don't restrict yourself to any set of notes, they still need to fit rhythmically and the occasional arpeggio in the right key is a good thing. That's just the way I do it, everyone has a different style.
#6
Quote by pwrmax
In my opinion, chromatic solos sound good in metal. When I said to not pay attention I meant don't restrict yourself to any set of notes, they still need to fit rhythmically and the occasional arpeggio in the right key is a good thing. That's just the way I do it, everyone has a different style.

Are you referring to solos that are largely straight chromatic runs? If you're doing that, the harmonic context is still important because the chromatics work to connect scale and chord tones.
#7
Quote by :-D
And there's no "metal scale", that's really just an E minor blues scale with some extra notes. Or, if you're thinking modal scales, E Phrygian with an added b5.


That's just the phrygian and the locrian scale mixed together, they only have 1 note different.
#8
Quote by pwrmax
That's just the phrygian and the locrian scale mixed together, they only have 1 note different.

But you wouldn't refer to it as a bastardization of the two scales, it makes more sense to refer to them as based off a particular scale.
#9
Quote by :-D
I'm not understanding why you wouldn't pay attention to the riffs backing the solo. The harmonic context is a wee bit important.

And there's no "metal scale", that's really just an E minor blues scale with some extra notes. Or, if you're thinking modal scales, E Phrygian with an added b5; perhaps E Locrian with an added 5. Many options.


What about BGC's "E Metal Scale"?

TS: You need to learn some music theory man.
#10
Quote by Avedas
What about BGC's "E Metal Scale"?

TS: You need to learn some music theory man.

I invented that, she just named it! I get no credit?
#11
Quote by :-D
I invented that
Like fuck you did!


Directed to pwrmax, the member who is I voting "most likely to be added to UG's 'retard box'" in my high school yearbook:




Axl:
Please read the theory link in my sig and then use your knowledge of theory to figure out what Metallica plays to sound so metallicous. If you have questions about it, please ask, but do actually ask a question; none of this "explain this sh!t to me," nonsense.
#12
Well for metal riffs 'n stuff I heard this frrom a guy before but I'm not sure who it was.

"Remember this: K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid)"

Not sure if someone already posted this so sorry if it's you.
If ur ears aint ringin...ur doin it wrong

#13
Quote by guitarist10
"Remember this: K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid)"
This is often a good idea. However, there are times when something complex is ideal.

It's a matter of taste. Use complex ideas at your discretion.
#14
Or you can do a cool blend: Complex idea that sounds simple, unless someone's really paying attention or looking for the complexity.
#15
Quote by Avedas
Complex idea that sounds simple
I think it would be better to do something easy that sounds hard than to do something hard that sounds easy, don't you?
#16
Quote by bangoodcharlote
Directed to pwrmax, the member who is I voting "most likely to be added to UG's 'retard box'" in my high school yearbook:
.


May I ask what it is I lack in music theory? We're talking about writing Metallica style which uses a certain level of theory. If you go all out with arpeggios and Em, Am, D chord progression or anything else in that manner, you'll end up sounding like Malmsteen.

Also, I'd appreciate it if you didn't call me n00b. I know theory very well, except ear training (don't even start me there), I'm just trying to talk in a way that won't confuse people who lack the useful knowledge.
#17
Quote by pwrmax
May I ask what it is I lack in music theory? We're talking about writing Metallica style which uses a certain level of theory. If you go all out with arpeggios and Em, Am, D chord progression or anything else in that manner, you'll end up sounding like Malmsteen.

There's a huge problem with this statement; music doesn't "use" theory, theory simply describes music. Metallica doesn't "use" any more or less theory than Green Day and Vai, it's just that there are different descriptors for the specific music.

In addition, Malmsteen is not the only user of arpeggios.
#18
Quote by :-D
But you wouldn't refer to it as a bastardization of the two scales, it makes more sense to refer to them as based off a particular scale.


In my experience, it's A LOT easier to explain it that way than it is as a locrian scale with an added raised 5th.
#19
Quote by pwrmax
In my experience, it's A LOT easier to explain it that way than it is as a locrian scale with an added raised 5th.

It's actually a lot easier to explain that it's a scale with an added note; explaining that it's a combination of Phrygian and Locrian not only requires knowledge of both those scales, it's describing two completely different modes and tonalities.
#20
I think we should all just stop arguing about how we interpert music.
Last edited by pwrmax at May 3, 2008,
#21
Quote by pwrmax
I think we should all just stop arguing about how we interpert music.

Discussing music is what this forum is about. This isn't getting out of hand or anything, so I see no reason not to continue.
#22
^ i second that xD
ok.. im confuse to this point... i will try to learn some of the theory thread and try to understand what you guys put in there, thx for all =)
#23
it's describing two completely different modes and tonalities.


The phrygian and locrian scale only have a difference of 1 note. In the key of E it would be B in the earlier and Bb in the latter. I guess for most people locrian with an added note is easier to understand than a combination, that's just how I noticed it when someone brought up the 'metal scale' in another thread. It's just an opinion difference.
#24
Quote by pwrmax
The phrygian and locrian scale only have a difference of 1 note. In the key of E it would be B in the earlier and Bb in the latter.

Yes, but the applications are completely different. Just for starters, the tonic chord of Phrygian is a minor triad, while Locrian is characterized by a diminished triad. The one note makes a world of difference.

Just an aside, it wouldn't be entirely accurate to describe Phrygian and Locrian by referencing "the key of E", it'd be more accurate to say something along the lines of "with E as the tonic of the mode". Modal music and key based music, as I'm sure you know, are quite different.
Quote by axl611
^ i second that xD
ok.. im confuse to this point... i will try to learn some of the theory thread and try to understand what you guys put in there, thx for all =)

In addition to the theory sticky in this forum, I'd suggest picking up a copy of The Complete Idiot's Guide to Music Theory.
Last edited by :-D at May 3, 2008,
#25
Quote by :-D
Yes, but the applications are completely different. Just for starters, the tonic chord of Phrygian is a minor triad, while Locrian is characterized by a diminished triad. The one note makes a world of difference.


True, well if it makes you feel better I think of it as a combination when I improvise for a solo and as a locrian with an added note for playing riffs with power chords. Remember we're writing metal, not the next masterpiece by Steven Reineke.
#26
Quote by pwrmax
Remember we're writing metal, not the next masterpiece by Steven Reineke.

So are you implying that metal should by nature not be musically complex?
#27
Quote by :-D
So are you implying that metal should by nature not be musically complex?


Depends what kind, the thread starter wanted Metallica style so there's some complexity. In all honesty, I'd love to hear a metal band who have a professional contemporary composer as the songwriter. Something like Malmsteen but less repetition, as much as I enjoy his music, the solos tend to get repetetive.
#29
Quote by :-D
^That's actually a very interesting idea, that would open the door for (likely) a lot of creative and varied musical ideas.


That's what I'm interested in doing. My major's music education, not composition so it'll take me longer to learn to compose properly. Also, I don't think there's too many record labels willing to sign symphonic metal acts these days.