#1
I somehow cant seem to count in 6/8 time.

I know its a compound time meter that has two dotted crotchets denoted as the beat and I can count them but its subdivisions that get me.

Three 8th's note make up one beat therefore in 6/8 time there are six 8th notes per bar. Does that mean 2 or 3 16th notes make up one 8th note in 6/8? How is it counted?

Also when you have a 32nd note, how is that counted?

Screw it, how is this counted!?



Ive tried to put it in simple time but it loses the feel... How can I think of the note groupings? Im tempted to think of 32nd notes as triplets to make up a 16th note, and the 16th notes making up a triplet making up the 8th note and the 8th note as a triplet making the dotted crotchet as the beat.

I havent looked at theory in a year now since I have been too busy with my degree... Now Im rusty as hell... Any help appreciated

Edit:

Yes I have read the Music Theory Sticky!
Sat in a lab, curing diseases. They actually LET me play with chemicals!
#2
well 3/4 is 1,2,3. Could 6/8 be the same or similar? Sorry, time signatures isnt really my experties, most my songs are either in 3/4 or 4/4.
#3
an eighth note always has the duration of two sixteenths, and four 32nds, no matter what time signature
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#4
Quote by Ænimus Prime
an eighth note always has the duration of two sixteenths, and four 32nds, no matter what time signature


Thank you. Now it makes sense... I was getting majorly confused.
Sat in a lab, curing diseases. They actually LET me play with chemicals!
#5
Quote by demonofthenight
well 3/4 is 1,2,3. Could 6/8 be the same or similar? Sorry, time signatures isnt really my experties, most my songs are either in 3/4 or 4/4.


6/8 is the equivalent of triplets in 2/4, 9/8 is the equivalent of 3/4
#6
^correct.

Unless it's very slow, 6/8 is pulsed in 2, as in 1 2 3 4 5 6
#8
That looks ridiculously complicated for 6/8. Like has been said before, two 16hs always equals one 8th, two 32nds always equals one 16th. Luckily, since those have been written out correctly, you can safely assume that in those 32nd note runs, you can group twelve 32nd notes per beat.

EDIT: who wrote that??
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#9
Quote by 6DgOfInTb
That looks ridiculously complicated for 6/8. Like has been said before, two 16hs always equals one 8th, two 32nds always equals one 16th. Luckily, since those have been written out correctly, you can safely assume that in those 32nd note runs, you can group twelve 32nd notes per beat.

EDIT: who wrote that??


Its an exerpt from Blue by Malmsteen.

I think it should be in 12/8 though... >_>
Sat in a lab, curing diseases. They actually LET me play with chemicals!
#11
Quote by bangoodcharlote
Why's that?


When I listen to the recording it feels more like 4 dotted crotchets.

Every tab of the song is in 6/8 though... So I could be wrong.
Sat in a lab, curing diseases. They actually LET me play with chemicals!
#13
Quote by Guitardude19
When I listen to the recording it feels more like 4 dotted crotchets.

Every tab of the song is in 6/8 though... So I could be wrong.
Well is there really much difference between two bars of 6/8 and one bar of 12/8?


I actually don't know, but I don't think there is.
#14
Quote by bangoodcharlote
Well is there really much difference between two bars of 6/8 and one bar of 12/8?


I actually don't know, but I don't think there is.


6/8 has a strong beat like this:

1 and a 2 and a 1

Where as 12/8 has a strong beat on the three but not as strong as the first beat.

1 and a 2 and a 3 and a 4 and a 1

(I count like that to denote the dotted chrotchets)
Sat in a lab, curing diseases. They actually LET me play with chemicals!
#15
+1
The stressing of the different beats of each measure is why different time signatures are used. As 'guitardude19' said two bars of 6/8 time will have a slightly different feel than one bar of 12/8 time due to where the beats are stressed. I was just looking through old theory books this morning talking about rhythmic meter and how and which beats are stressed in measures of different length. i.e. a measure of 4 beats will be Swsw (S= strong, w=weak, s=secondary stress), measure of 7 beats Swswsww, measure of 3 beats Sww, and so on. Time signature gives you how many beats of a particular unit (qtr., eighth, whole) per measure. Rhythm theory tells you how those beats will be "played" or stressed in each measure. My book talked mostly about 'straight' rhythm, strong 1&3 etc.. It didn't go a whole lot into blues type patterns which stress the backbeat or 2&3.
#16
i can believe how complicated you guys make this. its like 1 bar of 3/4 twice basically, and the emphasis is more on the 1 and the 3. thats basically it.
#17
Quote by Grouch
i can believe how complicated you guys make this. its like 1 bar of 3/4 twice basically, and the emphasis is more on the 1 and the 3. thats basically it.


No its really not...

6/8s equivalent simple time signature is 2/4 not 3/4.

6/8 is two dotted crotchets. 2/4 is two crotchets.

To make 2/4 sound like 6/8 make the note groups in 2/4 have a triplet feel.

6/8 =/= 3/4 or 2/4 but its equivalent in terms of beats per measure is 2/4 since both 6/8 and 2/4 have 2 beats per measure. 6/8 has two dotted crotchets and 2/4 has two crotchets...

Edit:

2/4 is a march and if the groupings are made into triplets, it has a 6/8 feel.
Sat in a lab, curing diseases. They actually LET me play with chemicals!
Last edited by Guitardude19 at May 4, 2008,
#20
It should be noted, though, that superimposing something in 3/4 over an already established 6/8 line sounds bloody cool.
#22
Ive seen a classical piece written (6/8 3/4) and always wondered what that meant... Now I do!
Sat in a lab, curing diseases. They actually LET me play with chemicals!
#23
You mean as in almost 63/84 time?

I've heard of that, though I've never seen it. Basically, it means that you alternate between 6/8 and 3/4, so you'd have the standard triplet feel for a measure, then quarter notes.


Or maybe I'm completely wrong.
#24
Quote by bangoodcharlote
You mean as in almost 63/84 time?

I've heard of that, though I've never seen it. Basically, it means that you alternate between 6/8 and 3/4, so you'd have the standard triplet feel for a measure, then quarter notes.


Or maybe I'm completely wrong.


You are half right, but Ive seen it written in between bracketts as (6/8 3/4) directly next to each other.

It means what you said.
Sat in a lab, curing diseases. They actually LET me play with chemicals!
#25
I don't see the need for using that natation there. I think it would be fine to just write 3 quarter notes in a bar of 6/8.

However, for that Tool song that alternates between 5/8 and 7/8 (Schism?), that notation mignt be useful since writing it in 12/8 would be inaccurate.


What is that notation called, anyway?
#26
Quote by bangoodcharlote
I don't see the need for using that natation there. I think it would be fine to just write 3 quarter notes in a bar of 6/8.

However, for that Tool song that alternates between 5/8 and 7/8 (Schism?), that notation mignt be useful since writing it in 12/8 would be inaccurate.


What is that notation called, anyway?


Hehe well the composer did

I cant remember what the notation is called, but I ll ask my teacher when I next see him!
Sat in a lab, curing diseases. They actually LET me play with chemicals!
#27
3/4 - 1 e + a 2 e + a 3 e + a
4/4 - 1 e + a 2 e + a 3 e + a 4 e + a (thrown in for comparison)
12/8 - 1 e + 2 e + 3 e + 4 e +
6/8 - 1 e + 2 e +
7/4 - 1 e + a 2 e + a ... 7 e + a
7/8 - 1 e 2 e 3 e +

im not sure if thats 'proper transcription' for beat descriptions but the division is right. just say them out loud (with + being 'and'), and youll get a feel for them. try, say, saying the 6/8 a few times then 12/8, youll see the difference. same for 3/4 vs 12/8. there are an equal number of 16ths but they count out in different groupings.
#28
Quote by bangoodcharlote
You mean as in almost 63/84 time?

I've heard of that, though I've never seen it. Basically, it means that you alternate between 6/8 and 3/4, so you'd have the standard triplet feel for a measure, then quarter notes.


Or maybe I'm completely wrong.


From my (limited) understanding, many flamenco rhythms notate best this way.

Those with other musical tastes may recognize it from Opeth's Windowpane.