#1
Hello I have an acoustic classical(Spanish) guitar and my problem is:
Almost all the bass(wound)strings sound really out of tune as i go up the neck, but especially the D string, which also goes off tune often. My strings are since last summer and were good till now i guess.
Are the strings too old, or has anything occurred to the neck(intonation) of my guitar?Being a Spanish guitar, it cannot be adjusted.
Can anybody help?Thank you.
#2
Too old. Way too old. Change your strings.
Sincerely, Chad.
Quote by LP Addict
LP doesnt have to stand for les paul.. it can stand for.... lesbian porn.
#4
Yeah change your strings also check your pegs and nut incase either are loose
#5
In fact, change them in favor of Aquila strings. The difference is night and day.
Sincerely, Chad.
Quote by LP Addict
LP doesnt have to stand for les paul.. it can stand for.... lesbian porn.
#6
Quote by Chad48309
In fact, change them in favor of Aquila strings. The difference is night and day.

I allready bought new D'Addario strings, but i wanted to know if it needs also some technical adjustments before.Thanks anyway
#7
If the guitar is in tune on open strings, but out of tune up the neck, changing the strings won't correct your problem (although you prolly should after that length of time). I am guessing storing the guitar without loosening the strings may have bowed the neck enough to screw up the intonation. It may be possible to correct by using weights (pressure) and humidity, but you're better off letting a professional do the work.
#8
Quote by wildyoda2
If the guitar is in tune on open strings, but out of tune up the neck, changing the strings won't correct your problem (although you prolly should after that length of time). I am guessing storing the guitar without loosening the strings may have bowed the neck enough to screw up the intonation. It may be possible to correct by using weights (pressure) and humidity, but you're better off letting a professional do the work.

We don't know this by intonation alone. Old strings do some wonky stuff, including throwing off intonation. He should change the strings (with low or normal tension, preferably) and then report back.
Sincerely, Chad.
Quote by LP Addict
LP doesnt have to stand for les paul.. it can stand for.... lesbian porn.
#9
Quote by Chad48309
We don't know this by intonation alone. Old strings do some wonky stuff, including throwing off intonation. He should change the strings (with low or normal tension, preferably) and then report back.

Oky doky i shall do that.And gonna change my sig...
#10
Quote by szekelymihai
Oky doky i shall do that.And gonna change my sig...

No offense intended. I'll help you with your questions and support you in constructive comments, but I can't let your God-awful satire slide in the pit. You're no Jonathan Swift.
Sincerely, Chad.
Quote by LP Addict
LP doesnt have to stand for les paul.. it can stand for.... lesbian porn.
#11
Quote by Chad48309
No offense intended. I'll help you with your questions and support you in constructive comments, but I can't let your God-awful satire slide in the pit. You're no Jonathan Swift.

i know its over over exagerated, but ive seen like really stupid comments in here and said one day "umm lets be a jerk" and posted an off-topic answer and some guy said ..i dont remeber what....so it was just confusion.I like to be able to help, but in some cases i like being sarcastic, not ironic as someone corrected me lsat night.So sorry for my sarcasm, ill try to change myself
#12
Quote by szekelymihai
i know its over over exagerated, but ive seen like really stupid comments in here and said one day "umm lets be a jerk" and posted an off-topic answer and some guy said ..i dont remeber what....so it was just confusion.I like to be able to help, but in some cases i like being sarcastic, not ironic as someone corrected me lsat night.So sorry for my sarcasm, ill try to change myself

Sarcasm rarely writes well. Nine out of ten times, it makes you sound like a moron. Just watch out; there's a huge difference between satire and sarcasm.
Sincerely, Chad.
Quote by LP Addict
LP doesnt have to stand for les paul.. it can stand for.... lesbian porn.
#13
Quote by Chad48309
Sarcasm rarely writes well. Nine out of ten times, it makes you sound like a moron. Just watch out; there's a huge difference between satire and sarcasm.

Is this better?As you now know what my problem is?Correct me if you feel so
#14
Quote by G.Krizzel
You should change your strings every 1-3 months, depending on how they sound and how much money you're willing to spend (if you want them to sound good and not out of tune that is)

Uh. question.How do you restring(personally), take string off and immediately replace with new one or take them all off and then replace?
#15
Quote by wildyoda2
If the guitar is in tune on open strings, but out of tune up the neck, changing the strings won't correct your problem (although you prolly should after that length of time). I am guessing storing the guitar without loosening the strings may have bowed the neck enough to screw up the intonation. It may be possible to correct by using weights (pressure) and humidity, but you're better off letting a professional do the work.

How do you restring(personally), take string off and immediately replace with new one or take them all off and then replace? I just copied this cause the guy i asked i guess left to do his own stuff and if you could help me with my ques.Please!
Last edited by szekelymihai at May 4, 2008,
#16
I usually change strings one at a time to try to maintain some tension on the neck. Try it this way (maybe with low tension strings?). Hopefully Chad's right and the problem will disappear. Of course removing all tension for a few weeks may allow the neck to return to original shape but as you know classicals are a little more sensitive and unpredictable. Tell you what...just replace your WORST string (D). After stretching the string a bit, at least that string should intonate pretty well if the neck's not bowed. Don't bother with expensive strings until you're sure your neck's OK.
#17
^^^ Do not stretch out nylon strings! Doing so may cause thin/thick spots along the length of the string and lead to yet more intonation/tuning problems. Simply install a new set on the guitar, tune up to pitch, then wait. Next day, retune. It may take close to a week for the strings to become stable, but done correctly, they will be very stable and hold their tuning just as well as steel strings can.
Removing all of the strings at one time is not a problem. Leaving them off for a week won't effect the guitar either. A few years, yes, the neck might be adversly affected. It's the perfect time to clean up the fretboard also. The 1 string change at a time is a myth.
#18
Yep, either way works just fine, in 45 years of changing strings I've never seen any harm done to a guitar by removing all the strings, even if it's left to sit for a week for major repairs or waiting for parts.
Hmmm...I wonder what this button does...
#19
Quote by LeftyDave
^^^ Do not stretch out nylon strings! Doing so may cause thin/thick spots along the length of the string and lead to yet more intonation/tuning problems. Simply install a new set on the guitar, tune up to pitch, then wait. Next day, retune. It may take close to a week for the strings to become stable, but done correctly, they will be very stable and hold their tuning just as well as steel strings can.
Removing all of the strings at one time is not a problem. Leaving them off for a week won't effect the guitar either. A few years, yes, the neck might be adversly affected. It's the perfect time to clean up the fretboard also. The 1 string change at a time is a myth.

Well know you have another choice to make...you can either replace ALL your strings and wait a week to find out if your neck is bowed...or you can replace and stretch one wound nylon string and find out in 10 minutes. Removing all of the strings at the same time MIGHT not cause a problem, but if your guitar has a condition issue it CERTAINLY can. As far as taking years for a neck to bow, that's an irresponsible broad statement, especially considering this potential problem only took 9 months to present itself.
#20
Quote by wildyoda2
Well know you have another choice to make...you can either replace ALL your strings and wait a week to find out if your neck is bowed...or you can replace and stretch one wound nylon string and find out in 10 minutes. Removing all of the strings at the same time MIGHT not cause a problem, but if your guitar has a condition issue it CERTAINLY can. As far as taking years for a neck to bow, that's an irresponsible broad statement, especially considering this potential problem only took 9 months to present itself.

Nylon string guitars rarely have a problem with bowing. Bowing is almost always caused by user error. People put on too high of gauge of strings, they don't inspect the instrument beforehand, etc.

You should not stretch nylon strings. If you value your tone at all, then don't. I've never played a classical that encounters neck problems from having the strings left off of it for a year or two. I see many of these that were left in attics, thrown in closets, etc. I've seen maybe one that was bowed, and it had books stacked on top of it and it was left out of its case. Either your guitar was of poor quality or you did something wrong.
Sincerely, Chad.
Quote by LP Addict
LP doesnt have to stand for les paul.. it can stand for.... lesbian porn.
#21
Quote by Chad48309
Nylon string guitars rarely have a problem with bowing. Bowing is almost always caused by user error. People put on too high of gauge of strings, they don't inspect the instrument beforehand, etc.

You should not stretch nylon strings. If you value your tone at all, then don't. I've never played a classical that encounters neck problems from having the strings left off of it for a year or two. I see many of these that were left in attics, thrown in closets, etc. I've seen maybe one that was bowed, and it had books stacked on top of it and it was left out of its case. Either your guitar was of poor quality or you did something wrong.

Read the post. The (possible) problem originated with storing the guitar with the strings on. How quickly one makes enemies here!
#22
Quote by wildyoda2
Read the post. The (possible) problem originated with storing the guitar with the strings on. How quickly one makes enemies here!

Wrong. He simply says that he has used the same strings since last summer; not that he has stored the guitar for that long.

Edit: and, again, without seeing and checking the guitar, we won't know whether or not the neck has bowed. Poor intonation is not empirical evidence for neck bowing.
Sincerely, Chad.
Quote by LP Addict
LP doesnt have to stand for les paul.. it can stand for.... lesbian porn.
Last edited by Chad48309 at May 5, 2008,
#23
Its poor quality but now ive put new strings on and tuned one step behind.The problem seems to have dissapeared and its ok.Its certainly not the first time I restring but it is the first time i realize that problem.Anyway its solved, as much as i can ask from it.Thank you all for you patience and im looking forward in helping with your problems
#24
Quote by wildyoda2
Well know you have another choice to make...you can either replace ALL your strings and wait a week to find out if your neck is bowed...or you can replace and stretch one wound nylon string and find out in 10 minutes. Removing all of the strings at the same time MIGHT not cause a problem, but if your guitar has a condition issue it CERTAINLY can. As far as taking years for a neck to bow, that's an irresponsible broad statement, especially considering this potential problem only took 9 months to present itself.


So tell me, how do you figure the truth to be irresponsible? Or broad for that matter?
Not only that, but you missed the entire point of what I said. In essence, so that you and everyone else reading this is able to understand better, what I said was that removing all of the strings at once to replace them will NOT adversly affect the guitar, period. I did not recommend to take them off and leave them off for a few years to test my "theory". Now that would have been irresponsible! Just that for the time it takes to restring a guitar, let's say 2 hours tops, no damage will occur to the guitar.
And you also recommended to replace only 1 string "and stretch" it to find out if the problem resolves itself. Did I or did I not say in my other post not to stretch nylon strings, and give the reason why you should not? You of course don't have to believe me, and something tells me you won't take what I say seriously anyway, feel free to have a look at the following site. I frequent it often. The site owner is a master luthier with many years under his belt. Believe him or not, the choice is yours, but please don't contradict those of us who have been doing this for many years. Thank you.

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musician/Guitar/Setup/Classical/ClassicStr/classicstr1.html

Fourth page of the walkthrough, about 3/4 of the way down the page, is the reason for not stretching out nylon strings.
#25
Quote by LeftyDave


http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musician/Guitar/Setup/Classical/ClassicStr/classicstr1.html

Fourth page of the walkthrough, about 3/4 of the way down the page, is the reason for not stretching out nylon strings.

Yes you trully are the thread killer Thank you for youe advice, but ive got a question i seem to forgot about.What do you mean by stretching strings before putting them on the guitar?You mean...exactly what the stretch verb means?Thats courious, ive never heard about that.Ill have patience until they stabilize.Thanks!
#26
Quote by szekelymihai
Yes you trully are the thread killer Thank you for youe advice, but ive got a question i seem to forgot about.What do you mean by stretching strings before putting them on the guitar?You mean...exactly what the stretch verb means?Thats courious, ive never heard about that.Ill have patience until they stabilize.Thanks!


With steel string guitars, stretching out the strings is this. Once a new set has been installed, and partway into tuning up to pitch, the strings are pulled on at about the 12th fret. Grab them and tug on them, pull them away from the fretboard a bit, move them side to side. Tune up some more, and repeat the process. This stretches the strings out and helps to seat everything, and will also tell you if you have a string loose in the tuner post, or a ball end that hasn't seated itself properly in the bridge. It leads to stable tuning later on.
With nylon strings however, doing this will cause thin spots to occur along the string length. This will make the string uneven. Picture a rubber band being stretched out. Depending on how precisely it was made, it might stretch evenly along it's length, but chances are that it will be uneven due to slight inconsistencies in the manufacture process. Some spots will be thicker or thinner than others. Nothing's perfect after all. Same goes for nylon strings. The problem with nylon vs. my rubber band analogy is that when you release the tension on the rubber band, it returns to it's original shape. Not so with the nylon string. Once it's been thinned out due to improper stretching, it's permanent. It won't snap back.
You could argue this point with steel strings too, but the manufacture process involved in making steel strings is different than for nylon, plus steel strings are more apt to take to the stretching out process better than nylons do. Another string that really benefits from stretching are the Silk and Steels, from any brand. The silk fibers in them make them pretty stretchy, but won't hold a tune worth a lick if not pre-stretched during the install process. But if done correctly, they hold their tune very very accurately and are very stable.
#28
I posted some pictures in order to hear your opinion if its bowed or not.It doesnt seem to me, but i might be wrong.Pictures are not too good cause UG is restricting me to a not so large picture, but hope it helps.
I hope they are relevant enough to state an opinion
Attachments:
neck1.JPG
neck2.JPG
neck3.JPG
#30
It IS an irresponsibly broad statement to claim it takes years for a neck to bow. I agree that string tension is not a major factor, but humidity is. Where I live, neck adjustments are quite common.
#31
Quote by wildyoda2
It IS an irresponsibly broad statement to claim it takes years for a neck to bow. I agree that string tension is not a major factor, but humidity is. Where I live, neck adjustments are quite common.

Humidity isnt a problem where I live, but in this winter the temps got a bit low in my room about 15 C.Generally it is ok to live in
#32
Quote by szekelymihai
Ive posted some pictures of the neck, if you have time, could you check them?


From the pictures, the neck looks to be straight as an arrow. The action seems rather high tho. Could you supply a pic of the bridge please so that I may see the saddle?
Do you have a capo? If so, you can check the neck relief yourself very easily. Place the capo on the neck at the 1st fret. Now with a free hand, fret the low E string at a fret near where the neck joins with the body. This creates a perfect straight edge with which to gauge the straightness of the neck/fretboard. You should have a near perfect straight line up between the two, or perhaps a slight gap near the middle of the string straightedge to the crown of the frets in that area. This is a good thing if it's what you see. If you have high frets in the middle area, and the double fretted string should happen to be touching those frets, then you may have some back bow to the neck. This would cause some buzzing under medium/hard strumming. Repeat this procedure but with the high E string.
#33
Quote by wildyoda2
It IS an irresponsibly broad statement to claim it takes years for a neck to bow. I agree that string tension is not a major factor, but humidity is. Where I live, neck adjustments are quite common.

It's not a broad statement. A broad statement would be saying that "guitar necks bow." He narrowed it down for you. Get back to English class.

Where do you live, in the Amazon Rainforest? Please remember that classical guitars DO NOT have a truss rod. They don't have the backwards pressure being placed on them at all times. There should be no reason that they cannot remain straight for a long period of time, given that they have no tension on them. If they are strung, then it still takes an exceptionally long time for bowing and warping to occur. If classical necks had to be adjusted as often as you say, no one would have them, since it is largely difficult to correct a warped classical neck without major surgery.
Sincerely, Chad.
Quote by LP Addict
LP doesnt have to stand for les paul.. it can stand for.... lesbian porn.
Last edited by Chad48309 at May 6, 2008,