#1
I am throughly confused on the E major scale.
I got a diagram from justin guitar but I'm not sure Im playing the notes in the right order.

You start on the left, and go right correct? From 6th to 1st string?

What order do you play the notes on each string? As they appear or do you start on the root notes, or highlighted notes?

Does every position use the WWHWWWH formula?

heres the link

http://www.justinguitar.com/en/SC-001-TheMajorScale.php
#7
Im also a little confused on what you're confused about. I think you may be overthinking it. Metallica_rulz said it best:

E major =
E F# G# A B C# D# E


Play those anywhere on the fretboard and you are playing the E major scale.
#9
Learn the patterns. First learn the two in root position, i.e starting on E. Then learn the modes of the scale, like when you start on F# and go to F#, or G# to G#.
...
#10
On the guitar KnowledgeNet link on say the Ionian fingering, how can you move the notes down the fretboard? Do you have to memorize the entire fretboard?

I was confused about what order you play the notes on a scale diagram.
#11
Whats the difference between patterns and positions?
Is the pattern the order you play the notes in?

What are the first two patterns in root position?
#12
Quote by nin3donian
On the guitar KnowledgeNet link on say the Ionian fingering, how can you move the notes down the fretboard? Do you have to memorize the entire fretboard?

I was confused about what order you play the notes on a scale diagram.


No, you have to learn the modes or positions unless you want to change the root of the scale.

Quote by nin3donian
Whats the difference between patterns and positions?
Is the pattern the order you play the notes in?

What are the first two patterns in root position?


There is not difference between patters and positions, or modes for that matter. All it is is changing the note of the scale which you start on. For example you could play Fsharp, Gsharp,A,B,Csharp,Dsharp,E,Fsharp. that would be the scond position of the E major scale.

What I meant by the first two patterns in root position was Pattern 1, where you start on E (the root) You can play it starting on the open E string (low E) or the 12th fret on the low E string. Here are the patterns:

http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/guitar_scales.php?qqq=+0&scch=E&scchnam=Major&get2=Get
http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/guitar_scales.php?qqq=12&scch=E&scchnam=Major&get2=Get
...
Last edited by bartdevil_metal at May 5, 2008,
#13
Right, forget modes for the time being - you're a long way off needing to go down that road, if you ever need to.

TS, frets and fingering positions aren't the issue here, your guitar has notes on it, 11 of them that appear all over the place in a constant repeating pattern.

Scales are a sequence of selected notes that follow a set pattern, in the case of the major scale WWHWWWH. The pattern is nothing to do with where things appear on the guitar, it's a tonal pattern, a W is a 2 full tone between notes and a H is a semitone between them. Now, it just so happens that on the guitar a single fret space = 1 semitone, but that's just incidental...what you're concerned with here is the sound of the notes and the intervals.

Getting too bogged down in where you play a scale without actually learning what the scale is gets confusing because you end up thinking that you can only play a scale in one place and if you want to learn it elsewhere you need to learn a new fingering. Well, you don't, not really, because if you know the notes on the fretboard and you know the notes and intervals a scale contains you can just put them together and find your way around.

So, first thing to do before touching scales is to learn the notes on the fretboard. As far as modes go just forget they even exist for the time being, they'll only confuse matters.
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Last edited by steven seagull at May 5, 2008,
#14
Quote by nin3donian
On the guitar KnowledgeNet link on say the Ionian fingering, how can you move the notes down the fretboard? Do you have to memorize the entire fretboard?

I was confused about what order you play the notes on a scale diagram.


If you move the pattern down the fretboard you will be changing the key you are playing. To see all the other keys from the tool I posted before go here http://www.guitarknowledgenet.com/sit_scale_select.php and select the scale and root note you want.
#15
Okay so on the guitar knowledgenet on the ionian fingering, the notes go
C, D, E, F, G, A, B throughout? Also on a scale diagram how would I know where to start, or where to go to for that matter without knowing the notes on the fretboard?

Is there a Major Scale diagram that shows the order and naming for the notes in the scale, or a tleast the naming of the notes?

Although this question doesnt concern me yet im still kind of confused on it.

On the G Mixolydian fingering in C major it starts on the 3rd fret(6 string) and the F Lydian fingering starts on the 1st fret and also ends on the 1st fret on the 6th string.

Doesnt the scale use the C, D, E, F, G, A, B order? Is this when you don't start on the root?
#16
New Questions

On this link
http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/guitar_scales.php?qqq=1&scch=C&scchnam=Major&get2=Get

I found a C Major Scale Pattern but it doesnt start on C, it starts on F. Would it be okay if I learned this position 1st? On the link I selected the 1st pattern. Is this the Ionian pattern? If I learn this pattern, which one should I do next?

Also what does the chords section mean? Is this where the C comes from?
#17
When scales are tabbed, almost all the time they aren't showing the root first.

The root in diagrams will be highlighted or starred, something to that effect. What you should do is always start any scale by playing the root not first, not the lowest note.

If you start on the lowest note, chances are you wont remember where the root is and you're going to have to figure it out if you know the notes on the fretboard or look it up again.

A good thing to understand is that depending on a preference there is either 5 or 7 different major scale pattern (We'll stick to the main ideas, I'm sure there are more complicated versions).

You have CAGED and the 3 note per string methods. 3 note per string is what the title says, its pretty straight forward and has 7 different positions. The CAGED has 5 different positions, no special number per string here. Between 2-4 I believe.

Each of the positions CAGED or 3 note per string, have root notes that no matter what stay the same. The best way to look at it in my opinion is to think of the pattern without the fretboard know where the root notes are. Then in your head bring along a fretboard with all the notes on it. Take the position you're learning and place the root note on whatever note you want your scale to be. Then work off that.

That's why it's important to start on the root note.

Also, for the major scale if you start on the root note you can hear the "Do rah me fa so la te do" Something like that
#18
Also, it's a hassle to learn every pattern on a site like that seperate. Since they combine both the methods I told you about.

Try Www.JustinGuitar.com He has a major scale lesson free, gives you all the CAGED positions so you can work off that. His site is also totally free.
#19
Yeah justin guitar was where i went 1st
But I was confused on the order of the notes.

So when do you start on the root, or not start on it or is it specific for each position?
#20
You always start on the root. Well, you don't NEED to but I really suggest you do it for every scale. It'll make things like modes and such very easy.

Say the root is on the A string, you play the scale ascending then go back to the root and then descend to the lowest note and come back up to the root. It's so you play every note in that particular scale.
#21
Alright this is what it comes down to
On the link I used
http://www.justinguitar.com/en/SC-001-TheMajorScale.php
On the first shape E you start on the root and where do you go? How would I know where to go without memorization of the fretboard.

Also on the C major diagram where do I start, because theres no root on the 6th string? is the root in C major always C?
#22
This one is easy start on the root, work your way to the first string, come back down then hit that lowest note then the G.

By the way these are just the positions, no particular scales.
#23
Quote by nin3donian
Okay so on the guitar knowledgenet on the ionian fingering, the notes go
C, D, E, F, G, A, B throughout? Also on a scale diagram how would I know where to start, or where to go to for that matter without knowing the notes on the fretboard?

Is there a Major Scale diagram that shows the order and naming for the notes in the scale, or a tleast the naming of the notes?

Although this question doesnt concern me yet im still kind of confused on it.

On the G Mixolydian fingering in C major it starts on the 3rd fret(6 string) and the F Lydian fingering starts on the 1st fret and also ends on the 1st fret on the 6th string.

Doesnt the scale use the C, D, E, F, G, A, B order? Is this when you don't start on the root?

That's why I keep telling you to learn the notes on the fretboard, it's not possible to LEARN this stuff without knowing them.

At the moment you're trying to teach yourself spelling without knowing the alphabet.
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#24
Is it hard to learn notes on the fretboard?

"Say the root is on the A string, you play the scale ascending then go back to the root and then descend to the lowest note and come back up to the root. It's so you play every note in that particular scale" - Ze Metal

I don't really understand what you mean by this? I play the lowest root first, then go to the lowest note, but what about the notes on the low E string? Would I play the notes on A through high E, and then go to low E and finish on the root on the A string?

Thanks for the help
#25
And what do you mean it's just the position not the scale?
Isn't it a position of the Major Scale?
#26
No, It's not hard at all to learn the notes on the fretboard. Well, I can't say that since I tend to learn faster then most, but from experience learning the notes won't be something you need to spend more then 2 weeks on max.

1. This is kind of hard to explain with text but bear with me. Go to the Justin Guitar.com major scale lesson. Scroll down to "Position one, E Shape"

You would start on the lowest root, which is on the 6th string (Thickest). Play that with your second finger then following the pattern all the way up to the 1st string then come back down and when you hit the 6th string 2nd finger, then play the rest of the notes (In this case there is only 1 more) then ascend up to where you started.

Basically, you hit the lowest root 3 times.


2.This is just a pattern Justin is showing you here. There are no assigned frets, because you can move all these patterns around to different spots.


Just practice all these, get 'em down good.
#27
Ok, this is a very brief lesson on the major scale.
Firstly, forget everything about patterns and posistions. Every scale is based on intervals. The Major scale is the scale most people start on, but first you need to understand the notes (like steven said, its like learning the alphabet before you can spell).

The notes are:

A - A#/Bb - B - C - C#/Db - D - D#/Eb - E - F - F#/Gb - G - G#/Ab


These are all the notes. They repeat on each string, then when you get to Ab you start at A again.

# means sharp, and 'b' means flat. So if you see C#, you read it as C sharp.


Now, put it in an example, if you start on the A string, if you pluck the A string on its on, you play a A note.
If you play the first fret on the A string, you play A#. If you play the second fret on the A string, you play the B note, and so on. Eventually, you'll get to the 12th fret, and the notes start over again, so the 12th fret is A, 13th = A# etc.

If you can understand this you will get the hang of notes, and there places on the fretboard.

Just take a minute to try work out random notes on the fretboard... IE pick a random fret on a random string, and try to work out what note it is.


Now, the major scale. The major scale is a series of notes. What i mean by this, is if you apply a formula to all the notes, you can get the major scale.

For simplicity, ill use Whole steps (W) and Half steps (H).
A half step is basically going from one note, to the next on. So, a half step up from A is A# or Bb. A half step down from E is Eb or D#.

A whole step, is going from one note, missing the next one, and going onto the one after:
EG:
A -> miss A#/Bb -> B
C -> Miss C#/Db -> D

You get this idea? just learn this for a few minutes and try it on some different notes.


Now, the "pattern" of steps for the major scale is: W W H W W W H

So basically, take one note. This will be your Root note, A root note is the start of a scale. Ill use A as the root note.

  W   W  H  W  W  W   H
A   B  C# D  E  F#  G#  A

A              <== Root
B              <== Up one whole step
C#             <== Up one whole step
D              <== Up Half a step
E              <== Up a whole step
F#             <== Up a whole Step
G#             <== Up half a step
A              <== Up half a step


Can you see how i've done this? If not, just read back over what i've wrote and keep learning the notes untill you do.


Now, you need to apply this to the fretboard so you know what notes to play.

So you have your A major scale: A B C# D E F# G# A
The most easiest way to apply this to the fretboard is to play it all on one string:


e|---------------------------|
B|---------------------------|
G|---------------------------|
D|---------------------------|
A|-0--2--4--5--7--9--11--12--|
E|---------------------------|
   A  B  C# D  E  F# G#  A


Now, this is your A Major scale on the A string.


Now you may want to apply this to other strings, so you can play the entire scale over one area of the fretboard. To do this, try apply 2 or 3 different notes to each string:


e|--------------------------|
B|--------------------------|
G|--------------------1--2--|
D|-----------0--2--4--------|
A|--0--2--3-----------------|
E|--------------------------|
    A  B  C# D  E  F# G# A


See this is how you apply it to different strings.

If you need anything else, just ask.
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#28
Alright yeah that lesson helped alot

So in order to play in a certain key such as A all I have to do is look up the order of the notes, and then play the scale?
#29
Okay so I think I understand E but now I have a quick question on C and D.

Both of those keys's roots start on the A string. To play the scale correctely, I would start on the root, and then procced to play towards the High E. After I play High E I go back up towards the root, play the root, play the notes on the 6th string and then play the root for the 3rd and final time. Is this correct?
#31
Alright so if I play in A, I start on the root,play to high E, go back up to the root. But then where do I go, do I play notes on the 6th string, or the note not played yet on the A? This is basically all I need to know for now.
#32
I hope this diagram helps you.

E Major scale:

E F# G# A B C# D# E
R = Root Note (E)

e|-------------------------------0-2-4-|-4-2-0------------------------------|
B|------------------------0-2-4--------|-------4-2-0------------------------|
G|--------------------1-2--------------|-------------2-1--------------------|
D|--------------1-2-4------------------|-----------------4-2-1--------------|
A|--------0-2-4------------------------|-----------------------4-2-0--------|
E|--0-2-4------------------------------|-----------------------------4-2-0--|

    E F G#      D#E F#      C#D#E               E D#C#      F#E D#      G#F E
          A B C#      G#A B       F#G#A   A G#F#      B A G#      C#B A

    R             R             R               R             R             R


You dont even need to play it like this, as long as you play the 7 notes of the Major scale, and only those notes, you are playing the major scale.

This diagram can also be wrote out like this:


e|-X-|---|-X-|---|-X-|---|
B|-X-|---|-X-|---|-X-|---|
G|---|-X-|-X-|---|---|---|
D|---|-X-|-X-|---|-X-|---|
A|-X-|---|-X-|---|-X-|---|
E|-X-|---|-X-|---|-X-|---|
   0   1   2   3   4   5

The numbers on the bottom indicate the fret numbers, and the X's represent which notes are in the E major scale. You can play this diagram by playing the notes bottom to top (Low E to High E) and left to right.

So play the Low E string first left to right, then move onto the A string, left to right, then the D string left to right and so on.
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#33
Quote by nin3donian
Okay so I think I understand E but now I have a quick question on C and D.

Both of those keys's roots start on the A string. To play the scale correctely, I would start on the root, and then procced to play towards the High E. After I play High E I go back up towards the root, play the root, play the notes on the 6th string and then play the root for the 3rd and final time. Is this correct?


They don't HAVE to start on the A string. One thing you should notice is the same notes appear on different strings. You can find C and D on the low E string and start there as well.
#34
Yeah, I suggest you do the start on lowest root end on the lowest root "Method" though. It makes things later on a breeze. It does help to know the other roots but when you start on the lowest root when you get into practicing the major scale as a whole, or putting it together to make a big major scale exercise, it good to already be used to the movement.
#35
so is there different positions of the E major scale in particular?
I was looking at a different diagram and it never showed open notes
#36
You can start the E major scale on ANY E note. It doenst even need to be an E note.

As long as you play the 7 notes in the E MAJOR scale anywhere on the fretboard, you are playing the E major scale.

The only reason it displays it like in my tab above is because its easier to learn and better finger practice.
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#37
Yes, every scale has many different ways of playing it.

You could start it with an open E, you could start it 5th fret A string, you could start it 2nd fret D string. The list goes on.
#38
These are both examples of how you can play the Major scale using different note combinations:


E Major scale:

E F# G# A B C# D# E
R = Root Note (E)

e|-------------------|--0-2-4-------------------|
B|-------------------|-------------4-5-7--------|
G|-------------------|--------------------------|
D|--------------1-2--|-------------------6-7-9--|
A|--------0-2-4------|--------0-2-4-------------|
E|--0-2-4------------|--------------------------|
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