#2
Firstly, Dorian implies modal music and "minor" implies key-based music. Dorian is constructed by beginning on the second degree of the major scale; in C, that'd be D. So your D Dorian scale uses the same notes as C major but beginning on D -- D E F G A B C. The Dorian mode is used commonly over m7 and m6 chords, while key-based music gives you much more freedom.

Relative to the major scale, a natural minor scale is spelled 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 and a Dorian scale is spelled 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7.
#3
thanks, just one thing, how come you said natural minor scale, but your sig says theres no such thing?
#4
Quote by skywayavenue
thanks, just one thing, how come you said natural minor scale, but your sig says theres no such thing?

Because I'm quoting a dumbass for my own entertainment; it was one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.
Last edited by :-D at May 5, 2008,
#6
D, you've got to make a note that those two statements are incorrect. We know how ridiculous they are, but imagine some n00b reading that after I tell him about writing the D# Natural Minor scale.
#8
Dorian is minor, really. because it starts on the second degree of the major scale which is minor. Explaining things aint my strong point as you can see!

But any way i know what i mean. Usually when people say minor they are referring to the aolian mode.
#9
Quote by Grouch
Dorian is minor, really. because it starts on the second degree of the major scale which is minor. Explaining things aint my strong point as you can see!

But any way i know what i mean. Usually when people say minor they are referring to the aolian mode.

Just to clarify this a bit (I know what you mean though): whether or not a mode is major or minor is determined by looking at the tonic chord, so look at your root, third and fifth to determine the tonality. In Dorian (1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7), your tonic chord would be built 1 b3 5. Thus, Dorian is a minor mode. The major modes are Ionian, Lydian and Mixolydian and the minor modes are Dorian, Phrygian and Aeolian. Locrian has a diminished tonic chord so people debate its tonality often.

Aeolian has the same scale construction as natural minor, but it implies modal music whereas "natural minor" implies key-based music.
#10
Quote by :-D
Because I'm quoting a dumbass for my own entertainment; it was one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.



well i didnt think you could get an e# oh
#12
Quote by magicjoe13
well i didnt think you could get an e# oh

It's important not only for scales as BGC said, but also for accurate chord spelling. A lot of people will tell you, for example, that an A augmented chord is built A C# F when it's not. An augmented chord is built using degrees 1 3 #5. In A, your notes are A B C# D E F# G#, so an A major chord (1 3 5) is built A C# E. To get the augmented chord, you need to sharpen the fifth, so you get A C# E#. In equal-tempered music the E# sounds the same as F, but must be written as E# in this case for accuracy.
#13
Quote by :-D
In equal-tempered music
Back in the day Bb and A#, as well as any other notes that we now consider enharmonic, had slight differences in pitch. This was a jolly pain, so a few hundred years ago, we developed "equal-tempered tuning" where Bb and A# have the exact same pitch.

However, the distinction should still be made.
#14
Quote by :-D
Firstly, Dorian implies modal music and "minor" implies key-based music.


not necessarily.

dorian implies use of the dorian scale. Purely modal music implies purely modal music (using only the notes of the particular mode) as opposed to key based. composers can and often do draw from both resources.
You can utilize the color of the dorian scale without writing music that is "purely modal".
An example of this is any solo that uses dorian, but also includes chromatic leading tones.
Its not purely modal, but the modal scale is used and its associated color is achieved.


The difference between natural minor/aeolian and dorian, is that the dorian scale has a raised 6th when compared to the natural minor. (since in minor the 6 is flat, it is natural in dorian) This raised 6th is the defining color of dorian.

Play dorian over a min7 chord. hang out on the 6th note for a while.
do the same with natural minor ......

you will clearly hear the difference.

where to use dorian:

over a static m7 chord
over a "dorian progression".
Last edited by GuitarMunky at May 5, 2008,
#15
^True, I should have clarified that, thanks.

I'd also add to your "where to use Dorian" section over a static m6. I find that more characteristic of Dorian than a m7, though either is perfectly acceptable.
#17
Quote by :-D
^True, I should have clarified that, thanks.

I'd also add to your "where to use Dorian" section over a static m6. I find that more characteristic of Dorian than a m7, though either is perfectly acceptable.


sure it can work over the m6, or a minor 9th, or a minor 11th, or even just a minor triad. The m7 vamp is just one of the "typical" situations that dorian works for. I havent seen a whole lot of vamps that hang on the m6. I see alot of m7 vamps, or m7-m6 vamps.

Quote by bangoodcharlote
Or a progression that doesn't specify the sixth.


Sure. Like give an example though.
Last edited by GuitarMunky at May 5, 2008,
#18
Quote by GuitarMunky
sure it can work over the m6, or a minor 9th, or a minor 11th, or even just a minor triad. The m7 vamp is just one of the "typical" situations that dorian works for. I havent seen a whole lot of vamps that hang on the m6. I see alot of m7 vamps, or m7-m6 vamps.

However, the minor sixth chord is more characteristically Dorian than the minor seventh chord and would be a typical indication of an opportunity to use Dorian.
#19
Quote by :-D
However, the minor sixth chord is more characteristically Dorian than the minor seventh chord and would be a typical indication of an opportunity to use Dorian.


well it has the 6th in it. Its not more common to see a m6 chord though. Your more likely to use it over m7.

anyway it works over ALL of your typical minor type chords. There is no reason to debate anything. Its the color it creates over the minor chord that is important.
#20
Quote by GuitarMunky
well it has the 6th in it. Its not more common to see a m6 chord though. Your more likely to use it over m7.

Yes, but that's not what I'm arguing. The minor seventh chord is less characteristically Dorian, though it is more common.
#21
Quote by :-D
Yes, but that's not what I'm arguing. The minor seventh chord is less characteristically Dorian, though it is more common.


well thats irrelevant. I was just saying "where to use it"..... not what chord is "more characteristic" of the scale

If im going to suggest where to use it, Im going to start with the places your most likely to hear others use it...... The m7. or again.... any of the basic minor type of chords.

You have a good point. The m6 chord has the raised (natural) 6th in it. but it shouldn't be offered as an argument, as its a different issue.
#23
Quote by :-D
^Yes, what I'm saying is that it should be included in "where to use it" because of the point I was arguing.


ok, well no need to argue. just add it. like "it works over the m6 as well".

my response: "agreed".