#1
Hey guys. Sorry for the long post but I really need help here.

I'm having major issues with trying to recording my stuff.
I decided to ditch audacity because of the latency issues and I got cakewalk guitar tracks pro 3.

When I tried to install it, it analyzed my hardware to see which audio frequencies it can process. At this point my pc always crashed and the program never actually opens.

So I thought maybe its the old driver for the sound card, so my wife and I (mostly her though lol) spent a good 2 or 3 hours trying to find the driver updates for the sound card which we found and installed.

Reinstalled cakewalk and it worked but it said that all the frequencies it checks for are unavailable but I though it might still work.
I noticed there was no welcome sound when XP booted up after the reboot. I looked at the speaker menu and they werent registering as hardware which is weird.

I always used my zoom's usb firewire connection to record with audacity. I plugged it in and cuz its an audio codec the PC and program recognizes it and it sends the signal to the amp which acts as a speaker but this is the ONLY way to get sound from the pc. I can also plug my pc speakers into the pedal but then I have to turn one down to use the other.

I recorded a bunch of stuff and exported it then when I listened back to it on the pc downstairs it sounded WAY too distorted which is because what I was hearing in play back was the pure sound of the pedal through amp so to me it sounded great but through normal speakers it sucks.

No matter how I set the pedal it sounds really bad through the speakers so I thought about connecting my amp to the line it on the PC so its the AMPS sound going in and not the pedals as there are settings used on the amp also to get it to sound good.

Thing is with the on board sound card not working due to the driver needed to run the program the line in isnt recognized. So if I record with the pedal it produces distorted and horrible results or I use the line in but then the program doesnt work as I have to uninstall the driver that enables it to open!

This is really depressing me so if anyone has any ideas on what I can do so both the sound card AND the program work I would be grateful to you forever!

Sorry for the loooooong post guys and gals.

Nat.
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#3
Does the Zoom have a "Direct Recording" option (vs. different types of cabs etc.) If so, recording like that may sound bad when you're actually playing it through the amp, but may be ok when you play it back (using the amp as a speaker).

Sorry, I can't help with the card too much. Maybe here:


http://www.cakewalk.com/Tips/audiohw.asp
List of soundcard compatabilities

http://forum.cakewalk.com/tt.asp?forumid=17
Maybe posting here might help broaden your audience of potential troubleshooters
If I did it, this is how I did it.
#4
What sound card?
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#5
Quote by NByz
Does the Zoom have a "Direct Recording" option (vs. different types of cabs etc.) If so, recording like that may sound bad when you're actually playing it through the amp, but may be ok when you play it back (using the amp as a speaker).

Sorry, I can't help with the card too much. Maybe here:


http://www.cakewalk.com/Tips/audiohw.asp
List of soundcard compatabilities

http://forum.cakewalk.com/tt.asp?forumid=17
Maybe posting here might help broaden your audience of potential troubleshooters


Thing is it sounds great through amp but through normal speakers it sounds over distorted.
The zoom is a g71ut pedal with a direct to pc firewire to usb output supposedly for recording to a pc.

We reinstalled windows today and actually the speakers work now, the driver is a realtek ac97 audio driver which the program says is either not compatible or is in use by something else. So i can still only get sound direct from the pedal that sounds over distorted or if I use the headphone socket on the amp direct i get the usual pc noise with muffled recording lol

Would upgrading my sound card make a difference to the over distorted tone of the pure pedal signal? Or am I setting it up wrong.

MG connected to the pedal, guitar to pedal, pedal to USB port on pc.

What I really want is a way to get the sound I hear from the AMP into the pc which I guess cant be done with an MG15 without buying a mic or something else to go between the amp and pc.
Death speak:
I'll check what sound card it is in a few and edit this.

Thanks guys I really appreciate the help and ideas
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#6
Well maybe we're not on the same page here (and I don't have a zoom); I'm just basing this on my PODxt.

The POD has the option for "Direct Studio" "Combo Front/Pwr Amp" "Stack Front/Pwr Amp" etc. that changes the character of the sound so it will sound good through whatever it plugged into.

I think you know about this.


I wonder if your zoom automatically selects the "direct studio"-type sound adjustments (or "lack of adjustment" is probably more like it in this case) when recording through USB. Maybe you need to manually adjust it?

I'm not even sure if I would have to do that on my POD, since I always record through 1/4" to my mixer.

It would explain why it sounds good in real-time (on the amp), but bad played back (through the computer).

Also, try plugging your zoom into a different power supply than the computer. If the computer is through a power bar, plug the zoom through the wall (or vice versa).


Hey, also posting a clip of the "bad sound" would be a good idea. There are a lot of good ears on this forum and they can tell you if it's just underdriven, overdriven, adjusted for a cab, ground noise etc.
If I did it, this is how I did it.
#7
PS, I always record through headphones, so maybe get yourself a good pair if your audio card is pretty good.

Then you can adjust the sound just for the recording.
If I did it, this is how I did it.
#8
I have uploaded a pic of the in and outputs of the pedal here.



The pedal is powered by an ac adapter to the wall. The usb connection us for sending audio data ie recording and not for power.
Ive read the manual, tweaked the setting and its still way too distorted.
I'll try and upload a clip to my UG profile so you can hear how bad it is.

The pedal has two sets of patches, one for live and one for recording that has a "cab module" which changes the dynamics of the signal for recording. There also setting for optimizing the signal depending on what amp youre using and if its front or rear connected. As Im using an MG I have the "front" setting which sounds best but nowhere near how it should.

I cant find which sound card is in the pc but like I said the driver is the Realtek 97 driver.

EDIT:

Sound clip has been added to my profile under pedal test. I know its loud in the mix but that way you can hear how overly distorted it is.
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Last edited by grooveytigerrr at May 6, 2008,
#9
Yeah, that's definately what my pod sounds like when it's set to like... "combo front" or whatever. It's like the raw signal waiting to be adjusted by the power-amp and cab.

So if you switch it to "Direct" it sounds bad through the amp in real time? How does it sound if you record it as direct, then play it back.


It sounds like your only two options are going to be to record direct, but monitor it through either studio monitors or headphones (if you can get that sound card working... I can't help too much with that) or mic the amp and record through an interface or mixer.
If I did it, this is how I did it.
#10
Hmm I guess I will have to look at all the settings again.
I looked through the manual and theres a lot of stuff that isnt really explained so I will look at that stuff and do a factory reset if I mess it up LOL
Ill update later. Thanks for all the help NByz
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#11
OK so if anyone is still there, I can get the guitar sound ALMOST bearable but its still sounds pretty bad and Im running out of knobs to turn lol

Would a better sound card help to process the sound or is mostly my cheap speakers?
I know people say that monitoring the sound with speakers or headphones can help but the way I see it, whatever you use to monitor the sound with will "add" its own sound to the recording so when its played through laptop or normal pc speakers it would still sound crappy.
Or am I completely off here?

EDIT. ALSO does the type of audio driver you use make any difference or do they just have better latency levels?
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Last edited by grooveytigerrr at May 9, 2008,
#12
by plugging the Zoom into your PC via USB...that is now your soundcard.
You need to hook up your PC speakers to the Zoom's outs.
(ya might need some adaptors depending on your PC speakers)
Now you must go into your Windows control panel, then sounds/audio and make sure you select your Zooms ins and outs as the defaults.
Also in whatever app your using (audacity,cubase,sonar ect... ) you must select your Zoom's ins and outs as well.
If your audio is sounding distorted,then you need to adjust your input levels as they are too hot...also ya might need to adjust your in's levels on the software side,if still to hot from the zoom.

Also, going direct in from anything will generally sound like ass and will not even remotely come close to sounding like whats coming out from your amp.(except for bass,which is DI'ed all the time)
You might have to tweak your settings (perhaps set up a patch in the zoom) for when you record direct.
Last edited by PsychomanZ at May 11, 2008,
#13
So maybe Im just running the pedal volume too high? I have that exact setup already and the recordings are from those settings. Even if I turn all the gain of the effect off it still doesnt sound great. I guess its a trial and error thing, I may look into getting a Mic, either USB or for the line in.

I appreciate your time on this, it just seems that however I set the pedal it sounds the same.
Either too distorted or muffled if I change the cab simulation settings used for direct recording.
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#14
I could be off topic a little since I only have time to read the first post but it sounds to me like you cant get Sonar to run with your stock sound card. Well Sonar doesnt like stock cards, it much prefers an audio interface for both recording AND playback.

If your stock card isnt working anymore, you have to close Sonar and then go find the site for your stock card. (mine was creative labs on my old dell..Its a Sound Blaster card thing). So go to that site for your card and find the latest drivers for it. This should get it working again but chances are if you open Sonar it will disable your card again since it want to run an interface.

If I'm correct about all this, why not just get yourself a fair quality audio interface with audio inputs and outputs?
I use an m-audio 2496 with vista and sonar 6 producer. No problems at all except you need a mixer with a few outputs to work with this card properly...


BTW you can only use sonar when other audio programs such as windows media player are closed. Opening them will open an error in Sonar saying the audio device is being used by another program and can't record...
#15
I was trying to avoid buying a mixer as Im on a very tight budget but just out of interest, would I run put the amp in to the input on the sound card or just the audio out from the pedal?
I would have thought that no matter what I run the pedal through direct it would still sound pretty much the same or is that wrong?
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#16
well I was just explaining my setup. If you want a cheap interface theres the M-Audio Fast Track USB. You can run any audio into it and it has an on board preamp so no need for a mixer. It has outputs so you can run your PC speakers from it as well.

Basically you need an audio interface to use a program like Cakewalk Sonar. Interfaces will have inputs and outputs and most of them have preamps on board for the inputs so you can run a mic or instrument directly into them.

Your zoom pedal is somewhat of an interface but Sonar doesn't like it since its not compatible.

If you really want to record with Sonar I really think the only way to go is with a proper audio interface which you can run your zoom pedal into or even mic your amp with if you have a mic such as the Shure SM57.

If you are on a budget and cant afford any interface you can try switching over to a program called Reaper. It is similar to Sonar IMO and doesn't complain about stock sound cards.

The way I see it is if you have the money set aside to buy a high end program like Cakewalk sonar, you should have the cash to buy some type of interface these days.
Last edited by moody07747 at May 11, 2008,
#17
I may go the fast track route then. Ive read mixed reviews about it though, have you had any experience with it?

And btw Im not using sonar studio, Im using guitar tracks pro that I got from a friend. Theres no need for someone like me to have sonar spec recording equipment, only reason I got it was because audacity gave me nothing but latency problems that I couldnt seem to fix.
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Last edited by grooveytigerrr at May 11, 2008,
#18
Audacity is a good program, I used it when I started. Usually the program doesnt cause latency, the hardware does and if you dont have a proper interface, you will have latency with just about any program including Audacity.

I have not used that m-audio product myself so I can't say how good it is but I believe it's just about the same as the Toneport interfaces. I would go with an M-Audio product over line6 if I was in the market for recording gear though...I tried a toneport once and it worked great but the vista drivers sucked and crashed way too often for me. Also the gearbox software didn't sound great to my ear.

Reviews of the Fast Track USB:
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4782523&postcount=8

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7145906&postcount=16

There should be no latency if you monitor off the interface.
#19
Quote by moody07747
Audacity is a good program, I used it when I started. Usually the program doesnt cause latency, the hardware does and if you dont have a proper interface, you will have latency with just about any program including Audacity.

I have not used that m-audio product myself so I can't say how good it is but I believe it's just about the same as the Toneport interfaces. I would go with an M-Audio product over line6 if I was in the market for recording gear though...I tried a toneport once and it worked great but the vista drivers sucked and crashed way too often for me. Also the gearbox software didn't sound great to my ear.

Reviews of the Fast Track USB:
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4782523&postcount=8

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7145906&postcount=16

There should be no latency if you monitor off the interface.



Thanks for the links,
I dont get latency with the cakewalk program and Im running the exact same setup as I did with audacity. Unless the buffer just wasnt set right to begin with. I tried to adjust it but I never could get it working right.

I will take a good look at the fast tracks, Ive found a few on ebay.
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