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#1
Hi guys i've got a question about the major scale and modes

Say if theres a song in G mixolydian.. i believe it is the same as C major right? then why do people still want to name it "in the key of G mixo" rather than just C major because they share the same notes right.. they can just play it in the 5box of the C major scale which is G mixo..

thanks in advance
#2
no, it isn't really the same as C major, although the same notes are used to make it up.

Basically with G mixlydian, you are using the notes/chords of C major, but your song must resolve to G.
This is basically now the key of G, but with a b7.

If the song resolves to C it will be in C major, and resolving to A will be A minor.
It is far more common for chord progressions to resolve to the Major or Minor, although cleverly written 2-3 chord parts can be made to resolve somewhere else for that different sound.
#4
A song 'resolves' to it's tonal centre. This where to music feels most 'at home' and doesn't want to move. The ear hears everything in the music in relation to the tonal centre.
My name is Andy
Quote by MudMartin
Only looking at music as math and theory, is like only looking at the love of your life as flesh and bone.

Swinging to the rhythm of the New World Order,
Counting bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drums
#6
Resolution is when something sounds like it has finished.

You know at the end of a song when the drums all kick in and the guitarist jumps of the amp and strums a big loud chord? That sound of completeness is because all the tension has been resolved.

If you play these barre chordsin succession-
G - C - D
i think you will find that going back to G feels like home. These chords are therefore in G major.
#7
Okay. Grab your guitar, play a G chord for a bit, then a C, then a D, then back to G. Notice how it sounds moving from D to G? It sounds like it's fallen back to where it's supposed to be. Thats resolution.

G is the I chord in the key of G, C is the IV chord, D is the V chord. That chord progression was I IV V I. The movement from V to I is called an authentic cadence, and it establishes the tonal centre (G).

EDIT: ^haha, great minds I guess!
My name is Andy
Quote by MudMartin
Only looking at music as math and theory, is like only looking at the love of your life as flesh and bone.

Swinging to the rhythm of the New World Order,
Counting bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drums
#8
yea i get the chords explaination.. so does it mean that if a song is in G mixo, it should end on a G note? :$
#10
Doesn't have to (eg if you're going for an unresolved 'incomplete' feel) but it's generally a good idea to.
My name is Andy
Quote by MudMartin
Only looking at music as math and theory, is like only looking at the love of your life as flesh and bone.

Swinging to the rhythm of the New World Order,
Counting bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drums
#11
so its actually the same as playing the C major scale am i right, just that the note u end at is wat makes it a G mixo? sorry if i'm asking too many qns..
#12
Quote by disillusia
so its actually the same as playing the C major scale am i right, just that the note u end at is wat makes it a G mixo? sorry if i'm asking too many qns..


No the G mixolydian scale has the same notes, but a different formula..

G Mixolydian is

G A B C D E F

1 2 3 4 5 6 b7

C major (ionian)

1 2 3 4 5 6 7
#13
yea but G mixolydian to me is another box in the C major scale, and thats confusing me because its like playing the 3rd box of A minor pentatonic and say that it is different from the first box

sorry if i'm not making sense.
#14
I am still shocked by the fact that me and Aenimus wrote pretty much the exact same post at the same time on opposite sides of the globe! haha... legendary


Quote by ouchies
Yeah, or any note in the G major triad.

no not really.

Quote by disillusia
yea but G mixolydian to me is another box in the C major scale, and thats confusing me because its like playing the 3rd box of A minor pentatonic and say that it is different from the first box

sorry if i'm not making sense.

you need to stop thinking of them as boxes and read up a little on music theory to understand what you are actually doing when you write music.
#15
so its actually the same as playing the C major scale am i right
Depends on what you mean by 'the same'. They have the same notes, as you obviously know. BUt they have a different root and different intervals and thus different sounds.

just that the note u end at is wat makes it a G mixo?

What makes something G mixo is
Tonal centre at G
Intervals 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7

sorry if i'm asking too many qns..
Not at all
My name is Andy
Quote by MudMartin
Only looking at music as math and theory, is like only looking at the love of your life as flesh and bone.

Swinging to the rhythm of the New World Order,
Counting bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drums
#16
Hmm okay for e.g if i want to solo in G mixolydian, it is still correct to play notes from say C ionian, D dorian right? if so, then i'm not sure why is it in G mixolydian rather than C ionian etc.

i guess thats what i dont understand and is confusing me

thanks for all ur replies anyway! i really appreciate it.
#17
yeah, at any one time you can only be playing one mode from C major. The mode is determined by the backing chord usually.

You may play the D Dorian 'shape', but over a C major progression, it will be C Ionian, not D Dorian.

Hopefully that clears it up a bit.
#18
if so, then i'm not sure why is it in G mixolydian rather than C ionian
Because the tonal centre is G, not C or D etc
My name is Andy
Quote by MudMartin
Only looking at music as math and theory, is like only looking at the love of your life as flesh and bone.

Swinging to the rhythm of the New World Order,
Counting bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drums
#19
so the progression is what makes it in the key of G mixo and not C ionian although u can play the C ionian shape over the progression?
#20
Yep yep
My name is Andy
Quote by MudMartin
Only looking at music as math and theory, is like only looking at the love of your life as flesh and bone.

Swinging to the rhythm of the New World Order,
Counting bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drums
#22
Quote by disillusia
so the progression is what makes it in the key of G mixo and not C ionian although u can play the C ionian shape over the progression?
A shape does not represent a single scale. That C Ionian shape you know could be D Dorian, E Phrygian, F Lydian, etc depending on the context.

Take the guitar out of this and just think in notes. If you play the notes C D E F G A B in a G Mixolydian context, anywhere on the neck (position is irrelevent), does it make sense to call it C Ionian? Does it make much more sense to call it G Mixolydian?
#23
hmm wat do u mean in G mixolydian context? i duno=\ but it makes sense to call it C ionian to me
#24
hmm wat do u mean in G mixolydian context? i duno=\ but it makes sense to call it C ionian to me
#25
C Ionian/major is when you use the notes C D E F G A B with a tonal centre of C

D Dorian is when you use the notes C D E F G A B with a tonal centre of D

F Lydian is when you use the notes C D E F G A B with a tonal centre of F

A Aeolian/minor is when you use the notes C D E F G A B with a tonal centre of A
#26
hmm wat do u mean in G mixolydian context? i duno=\ but it makes sense to call it C ionian to me
#27
**** sorry fer the flooding of the same message, somethings wrong wif my net. thanks again branny!
#29
Quote by disillusia
hmm wat do u mean in G mixolydian context?
If the chord progression resolves to G and uses the notes of the C major scale, it is in G Mixolydian. It should not make sense to call it C Ionian if the root is G.
#30
Quote by disillusia
yea i get the chords explaination.. so does it mean that if a song is in G mixo, it should end on a G note? :$

Quote by ouchies
Yeah, or any note in the G major triad.

I disagreed
Quote by ouchies
Yes, actually. And if I'm wrong, prove me wrong, please.


Not too sure how you want me to prove you wrong, but seen as though you are being so arrogant about it....
Ending on G B or D does not make something in the key of G.

You may be right that most commonly these will be the resolving tones (most commonly G), but that is not what makes it in that key.

Something in G mixolydian could end on A if you wanted it to.

Thats all.
#31
Quote by branny1982
I disagreed


Not too sure how you want me to prove you wrong, but seen as though you are being so arrogant about it....
Ending on G B or D does not make something in the key of G.

You may be right that most commonly these will be the resolving tones (most commonly G), but that is not what makes it in that key.

Something in G mixolydian could end on A if you wanted it to.

Thats all.


What? In any key or scale the root, third and fifth are the most stable tones. Of course there will be exceptions, but if a progression is resolving to a chord, those chord tones will be the most stable. I don't know where you learned theory, but I've never heard of otherwise. Resolving to A wouldn't sound right because it would be on an unstable tone, the 2nd. An A over GMajor wouldn't sound correct.

And I wasn't being arrogant about it, I was just adding on to what you said. Sometimes I don't feel like writing more then I have to, is that a crime?
#32
What i am trying to say is that the note or chord that you end on is not the definition of a key.

I initially tried to make sure the person didn't go away thinking it was.

You are very correct in that those notes will resolve far far better, but you don't always have to resolve to the root triad.
#33
Although I understand what you're saying about the tonal center, I have always looked at modes as being decided more by the chords the scale is played over.

So playing any of the basic chords in C Major (C, Dm, Em, F, G, Am, Bdim) you can say you're playing G Mixolydian but strictly speaking you're not; you're playing C Major. Regardless of what chord you end on.

Am I right or am I wrong?
#35
Quote by disillusia
thanks for ur reply.. but wat do u mean by "resolve"?



If you're playing C, your licks; and eventually your song, will end on C or G (5th degree).

Doing thos notes but ending on either the 5th of G or G itself will give you that mixolydian feel.
hue
#36
Quote by ChrisN
Although I understand what you're saying about the tonal center, I have always looked at modes as being decided more by the chords the scale is played over.

So playing any of the basic chords in C Major (C, Dm, Em, F, G, Am, Bdim) you can say you're playing G Mixolydian but strictly speaking you're not; you're playing C Major. Regardless of what chord you end on.

Am I right or am I wrong?


You're a bit off. C Major and G Myxolydian have the same notes, but they are not the same scale. When playing G Myxolydian, the tonal center is G, not C.

One of my little tips that I throw around is to think of modes as entirely separate scales, because, well, they are. They have the same notes in a different order as the notes of the Major Scale. That is their only relationship.
#37
Quote by sock_demon
If you're playing C, your licks; and eventually your song, will end on C or G (5th degree).
If you're in C, your song resolves to C.

You may play G as your last chord for dissonance, but the song still resolves to C.

If it resolves to G, it is in G, not C.


However, ending a lead on G over a C chord is still considered C since the chords determine the scale and/or mode.
#38
Quote by branny1982
I think you already acknowledged that your are wrong!
Oh no no, I didn't mean I think that, I was using it as an example.

Quote by CowboyUp
You're a bit off. C Major and G Myxolydian have the same notes, but they are not the same scale. When playing G Myxolydian, the tonal center is G, not C.
I never said they were the same scale. Let me try to explain better.

If someone were playing a progression as G - Dm - C - F and then resolving to G it wouldn't make that G Mixolydian, it would still be C Major. No? Wouldn't you need to have modal chords to actually be utilising G Mixolydian?
#39
Quote by ChrisN
If someone were playing a progression as G - Dm - C - F and then resolving to G it wouldn't make that G Mixolydian, it would still be C Major. No? Wouldn't you need to have modal chords to actually be utilising G Mixolydian?
A chord isn't "modal."

I can see resolving that to G, but that is the rare exception of having a complex progression for G Mixolydian. If done correctly, I rather like it, but it still resilves better to C than G, though I suppose this is always true.
#40
Quote by bangoodcharlote
A chord isn't "modal."
Sorry, bad choice of description
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