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#1
EDIT FOR SOURCES AND MATH

This thread is created to see what the price of oil does...
You may think that, "Oh, well, oil went up again because it just does that"

Think again
When most "oil spills" happen, like the one that happened not to long ago, only around 200 gallons of oil was spilled. Guess how much gasoline that makes? Around 2 gallons. As pointed out by many people, yet silenced by the media, is the fact that there isn't a larger demand for oil by consumers, its a larger demand by investors.
http://editorial.autos.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=473819
http://editorial.autos.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=473819&page=2

Yes, i did in fact say it...The rising price in oil isn't because "a spill occured"
Investors can use this price to buy larger quantities of oil, in barrels. Since it is a demand not made by people who use the oil to refine it, then sell the products, they are grafting the market. (Grafting: Money or an advantage gained or yielded by unscrupulous means or in other words, controlling the market)

This isnt limited to just oil spills:
The supply and demand for all the economic experts on these forums
http://www.wtrg.com/oil_graphs/PAPRPOP.gif

ALSO PLEASE READ - Consumption numbers WILL INCLUDE what the investors buy, yet will not show the difference of what is put into gas tanks v.s. oil barrels bought


To summarize what the block of text says, the price of oil is going up because investors are stockpiling barrels of oil to sell when the price reaches, say $200 a barrel or more. They make you think that the prices just go up and that is accepted by most people

Please, please dont be ignorant and say this is not true. Its happening right now.

Remember in the United States when prices of real estate were going up? It was because a few people got rich off of real estate and told some people who told some people who told some people who wrote some books. Its called a "bubble" (http://www.rntl.net/history_of_a_housing_bubble.htm) because once there is a mass sellout, the prices plummet.

An exaple for how much profit could be made at the moment:
http://www.wtrg.com/oil_graphs/oilprice1869.gif
http://www.wtrg.com/oil_graphs/oilprice1970.gif
http://www.ioga.com/Special/crudeoil_Hist.htm

X amount of barrels bought at to keep it simple, 1,000 barrels of oil
say $50 a barrel (Jan. 2007 was actually $46 because another country joined OPEC)
50x to represent down payment = $50,000 spent
current price (futures) - $122 a barrel May 6, 2008 11:46 am
sell now for - $122,000
122,000-50,000 = 72,000 profit

bump it up a bit
1 million barrels of oil bought at $50 a barrel
Selling in probably one year when oil is at least $150 a barrel
50 million downpayment, selling for 150 million
$100 MILLION PROFIT
(This could be done by an entire investment firm)


Keep this alive will you? Thanks for your time...? Now that I have gotten flamed...
Last edited by jarudy at May 6, 2008,
#2
Quote by jarudy
This thread is created to see what the price of oil does...
You may think that, "Oh, well, oil went up again because it just does that"

Think again
When most "oil spills" happen, like the one that happened not to long ago, only around 200 gallons of oil was spilled. Guess how much gasoline that makes? Around 2 gallons. As pointed out by many people, yet silenced by the media, is the fact that there isn't a larger demand for oil by consumers, its a larger demand by investors.

Yes, i did in fact say it...The rising price in oil isn't because "a spill occured"
Investors can use this price to buy larger quantities of oil, in barrels. Since it is a demand not made by people who use the oil to refine it, then sell the products, they are grafting the market. (Grafting: Money or an advantage gained or yielded by unscrupulous means or in other words, controlling the market)

To summarize what the block of text says, the price of oil is going up because investors are stockpiling barrels of oil to sell when the price reaches, say $200 a barrel or more. They make you think that the prices just go up and that is accepted by most people

Please, please dont be ignorant and say this is not true
. Its happening right now.

Remember in the United States when prices of real estate were going up? It was because a few people got rich off of real estate and told some people who told some people who told some people who wrote some books. Its called a "bubble" because once there is a mass sellout, the prices plummet.

Keep this alive will you? Thanks for your time


so I'm ignorant if I dont believe your theory for which you have offered no proof whatsoever?

there are tons of other possibilities for the rising price of oil, the most obvious being the huge amount of conflict in the middle east (where most of the planet's oil is contained).
#3
A) Cite your sources.
B) We're in luck, I just happen to own OPEC and can change this. Thanks for informing me.
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#4
Propaganda!
Originally posted by TestForEcho
Badreligionrock is the man.

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Badreligionrock you have the greatest avatar of all time. Rejected is the best video. Period.
#5
Yes, i did in fact say it...The rising price in oil isn't because "a spill occured"


NO WAY! Are you kidding me?!

It's rising because China and India are buying up all the oil for themselves.
The DNA results show that Jeremy Kyle is a nob.


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#6
Quote by priest.fan.
so I'm ignorant if I dont believe your theory for which you have offered no proof whatsoever?

there are tons of other possibilities for the rising price of oil, the most obvious being the huge amount of conflict in the middle east (where most of the planet's oil is contained).


That makes 2 ignorant people who have posted in this thread then.
#7
i'll believe it. to believe that governments/businesses wouldnt horde oil to make a buck is ignorant.
Word.
#8
Quote by jarudy
This thread is created to see what the price of oil does...
You may think that, "Oh, well, oil went up again because it just does that"

Think again
When most "oil spills" happen, like the one that happened not to long ago, only around 200 gallons of oil was spilled. Guess how much gasoline that makes? Around 2 gallons. As pointed out by many people, yet silenced by the media, is the fact that there isn't a larger demand for oil by consumers, its a larger demand by investors.

Yes, i did in fact say it...The rising price in oil isn't because "a spill occured"
Investors can use this price to buy larger quantities of oil, in barrels. Since it is a demand not made by people who use the oil to refine it, then sell the products, they are grafting the market. (Grafting: Money or an advantage gained or yielded by unscrupulous means or in other words, controlling the market)

To summarize what the block of text says, the price of oil is going up because investors are stockpiling barrels of oil to sell when the price reaches, say $200 a barrel or more. They make you think that the prices just go up and that is accepted by most people

Please, please dont be ignorant and say this is not true. Its happening right now.

Remember in the United States when prices of real estate were going up? It was because a few people got rich off of real estate and told some people who told some people who told some people who wrote some books. Its called a "bubble" because once there is a mass sellout, the prices plummet.

Keep this alive will you? Thanks for your time

Demand and Supply mate. Oil Spills/Disasters/Usage and the fact that its a fossil fuel all contribute to rising oil prices. The fact people buy Oil increase its price. Overall on all goods thats called inflation.

i'll believe it. to believe that governments/businesses wouldnt horde oil to make a buck is ignorant.

Its good economics. Its what good countries are built on.
#9
Quote by JoshCrawford
Demand and Supply mate. Oil Spills/Disasters/Usage and the fact that its a fossil fuel all contribute to rising oil prices. The fact people buy Oil increase its price. Overall on all goods thats called inflation.


Not to mention the fact that OPEC is restricting supply right now.
Originally posted by TestForEcho
Badreligionrock is the man.

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Badreligionrock you have the greatest avatar of all time. Rejected is the best video. Period.
#10
Birthday : March 6, 1992

A real expert.

Also...did priest.fan just post again?
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#11
Quote by saphrax
That makes 2 ignorant people who have posted in this thread then.


ok... care to explain?

the middle east is extremely rich in oil, I dont think thats a fact you could possibly deny... I'd say it's reasonable to suggest that their current instability could affect the global prices of oil, especially when coupled with several other factors such as the increasing demand of heavily industrial nations with expanding economies (ie china and india), overall general usage and demand, disaster/spillage, etc.

also, like I said in my original post its merely a possibility, aka a theory, so lose the superior attitude unless you actually want to prove me wrong

edit:

Quote by duncang
Birthday : March 6, 1992

A real expert.

Also...did priest.fan just post again?


lol yeah
#13
Well, say all you want about me being young i guess...
Have you failed to notice this?
"Exxon also set an annual profit record by earning $40.61 billion last year - or nearly $1,300 per second in 2007. That exceeded its previous record of $39.5 billion in 2006. "
http://money.cnn.com/2008/02/01/news/companies/exxon_earnings/
I will be editing my first post with all the sources
#14
The price of petrol in the UK has been high for ages. Now it has hit your country where your nation skims off the top from everyone else and you suddenly see this as a revelation...

Welcome to the world, it's been happening for years.
#16
re-read first post for sources, math, and "supply and demand"
consumption is figured by the number of barrels purchased
This doesnt seperate from amount of GASOLINE comsumed so you can say increase demand, but it is more and more investors deciding to make some serious cash in about one year time by just waiting
#17
Quote by jarudy
re-read first post for sources, math, and "supply and demand"
consumption is figured by the number of barrels purchased
This doesnt seperate from amount of GASOLINE comsumed so you can say increase demand, but it is more and more investors deciding to make some serious cash in about one year time by just waiting
You're aware that Oil is used for more than just the production of gasoline right?
#18
Quote by freedoms_stain
You're aware that Oil is used for more than just the production of gasoline right?


Yes, i thats why i said that only part of the oil is used for gasoline... the other is for diesel, plastic, etc
#19
Quote by jarudy
Yes, i thats why i said that only part of the oil is used for gasoline... the other is for diesel, plastic, etc
Fractional distillation, look it up.
#20
Lulz there was a massive protest by taxi's in Preston town center today about petrol prices.

They basically drove round the busiest areas beeping their horns non-stop at about 5mph...

Now that was irritating.

Hahaha, god help us when the oil runs out and we don't have an alternate energy source. Wars, riots and mass chaos! Hooray!
#21
This is not true.

Oil prices are going up because we passed a point where oil production 'peaked,' and is now on the downhill slope. Our economy is based on infinite growth and oil has stopped growing. I think that the TS' figures, the war in the middle east, and some other issues probably contributed a little to the prices as well, but 'peak oil' is the main reason. And we had better get a viable, universal solution to oil (something far better than ethanol, which is a joke) very soon, or the economy is going to go from recession to collapse.

EDIT: from Hot Money's link:

"We believe the current energy crisis may be coming to a head, as the lack of adequate supply growth is becoming apparent,"


DUH.
We're only strays.
Last edited by Martyr's Prayer at May 6, 2008,
#22
Quote by Martyr's Prayer
This is not true.

Oil prices are going up because we passed a point where oil production 'peaked,' and is now on the downhill slope. Our economy is based on infinite growth and oil has stopped growing. I think that the TS' figures, the war in the middle east, and some other issues probably contributed a little to the prices as well, but 'peak oil' is the main reason. And we had better get a viable, universal solution to oil (something far better than ethanol, which is a joke) very soon, or the economy is going to go from recession to collapse.

EDIT: from Hot Money's link:


DUH.


we havent reached the peak yet since we havent used half of all the worlds supply yet
we are not on the downhill quite yet
#23
Quote by jarudy
re-read first post for sources, math, and "supply and demand"
consumption is figured by the number of barrels purchased
This doesnt seperate from amount of GASOLINE comsumed so you can say increase demand, but it is more and more investors deciding to make some serious cash in about one year time by just waiting

Oil companies buy the Oil, hence the demand. Which pushes prices up with the Oil Producers.
Which in effect leads to higher prices for the consumer.

Do you really think your local super market buys oranges (for example) from the Orange Producer and Sells it the consumer at the same price so level out their finances? no they want a profit. So they sell the oranges for 20% more than the supplier is selling them to the supermarket.
#24
Quote by JoshCrawford
Oil companies buy the Oil, hence the demand. Which pushes prices up with the Oil Producers.
Which in effect leads to higher prices for the consumer.

Do you really think your local super market buys oranges (for example) from the Orange Producer and Sells it the consumer at the same price so level out their finances? no they want a profit. So they sell the oranges for 20% more than the supplier is selling them to the supermarket.



The group of people that i am talking about who are buying the oil wont use the oil and refine it, they keep it. The play the commidty market and sell the commities back, not using it to refine it into different products...when the supermarket buys oranges, they buy them to sell them to consumers
In the oil market on the other hand, the buy oil and hope (and know) that the prices will go up and the sell the BARRELS of oil back, not products
#25
Quote by jarudy

The group of people that i am talking about who are buying the oil wont use the oil and refine it, they keep it. The play the commidty market and sell the commities back, not using it to refine it into different products...when the supermarket buys oranges, they buy them to sell them to consumers
In the oil market on the other hand, the buy oil and hope (and know) that the prices will go up and the sell the BARRELS of oil back, not products

Like I've said before. Oil is a fossil fuel. You obviously stock some up in case it all runs out and then you can make a massive amount of money later on.

Its good economics.
#26
the price of oil going higher and higher comes down to one thing very simply


CAPITALISM


as soon as capital controls resources they immediately cost more than they should


Nationalize ALL oil, ALL food, ALL Utilities and give the working man a fair share

f*ck investors, f*ck CEOs, F*ck them all and take back what belongs to the people


EDIT:


also that was just my socilaist rant in reality oil prices are climbing due to a weak US currency, increased demand from China and India, the west pissing everyone with oil off

and places like Venezuela cutting exports of oil to the US and instead trading it with their mates (Cuba, Ecuador etc)

but the root of this problem is business control of resources rather than state control
Last edited by imthehitcher at May 7, 2008,
#27
Quote by imthehitcher
the price of oil going higher and higher comes down to one thing very simply


CAPITALISM


as soon as capital controls resources they immediately cost more than they should


Nationalize ALL oil, ALL food, ALL Utilities and give the working man a fair share
f*ck investors, f*ck CEOs, F*ck them all and take back what belongs to the people

The state cant be trusted to use those resources effectively. thats why capitalism is better.
#28
Quote by JoshCrawford
The state cant be trusted to use those resources effectively. thats why capitalism is better.



yea thats nice we can trust business because they always do whats good for the people, they always ignore investors for the sake of consumers


yea they do all of that

nice one
#29
Gah, remember the good 'ole days when oil could be drilled in Southern California and gold could be plucked out of the river with your bare hands? Petridge Farms remembers....
Poor advice.
#30
Quote by imthehitcher
yea thats nice we can trust business because they always do whats good for the people, they always ignore investors for the sake of consumers


yea they do all of that

nice one

I never said they did the best for the people. I said they were more effective than government at providing a service for the people.
#31
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
The price of petrol in the UK has been high for ages. Now it has hit your country where your nation skims off the top from everyone else and you suddenly see this as a revelation...

Welcome to the world, it's been happening for years.



Ours are high because the government heaps a load of tax on. I saw somewhere that without tax it's only 40ish pence a litre, rather than the £1.10ish you actually pay.
#32
Quote by JoshCrawford
I never said they did the best for the people. I said they were more effective than government at providing a service for the people.



no they are more effective at exploiting a resource and selling it on for double it's actual worth whilst that additional profit doe not go to the workers but the fat cats


i'd like to know how 'uneffective' oil production was in the USSR

can i also point out that French utilities are state owned, and Renault was all throughout the nineties in which time it produced some of it's best cars


as well as Egypt having mostly nationalised services

don't tell me a state can't run things, when they clearly can

the only difference is that companies so consumed with the ideals of profiteering that they produce so much more of something valuable (but like in the case of oil keep it hidden to keep prices high) the very same applies for fruit in the EU companies dump huge amounts of it to keep prices high

a slap in the face to the starving all throughout the world no?
#33
Here in my province we have large amounts of oil sands which if developed properly, would increase Canada's available supply a lot. We could also stop relying on other provinces and countries to refine our oil and that way drop prices a little bit. It costs money to us to ship someone else the crude product and then buy it back for more. I really don't know why our resources aren't being developed.
ಥ_ಥ
#34
It's scary isn't it?

How some people seem to think this sort of intelligence will go down well in the Pit...
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#35
Quote by arsonite
Here in my province we have large amounts of oil sands which if developed properly, would increase Canada's available supply a lot. We could also stop relying on other provinces and countries to refine our oil and that way drop prices a little bit. It costs money to us to ship someone else the crude product and then buy it back for more. I really don't know why our resources aren't being developed.



the problem is sand oil is very expensive to refine into actual petrol and other types of oil

it's use is only really becoming so now because oil is now so expensive that it is now logistically viable to use it

basically it's just an expensive knock off as it were, but it proves the point that oil is not running out as fast as the corporations would have you believe

the fact that they have discovered new oil fields near the falklands, that are apparently some of the biggest in the world, as well as the huge amounts in eastern and northern Russia, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Venezuela, Brazil, Nigeria etc

ofcourse it's being used and is not replaceable for millions of years, but there is still a large amount
#36
I love how people are protesting oil prices, when it's their fault for being Dependant on it to fuel their bourgeois lifestyles.

If capitalism, industrialization and globalization is the problem (it is) let's stop trying to find a solution within those models.
#37
Quote by imthehitcher
the problem is sand oil is very expensive to refine into actual petrol and other types of oil

it's use is only really becoming so now because oil is now so expensive that it is now logistically viable to use it

basically it's just an expensive knock off as it were, but it proves the point that oil is not running out as fast as the corporations would have you believe

the fact that they have discovered new oil fields near the falklands, that are apparently some of the biggest in the world, as well as the huge amounts in eastern and northern Russia, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Venezuela, Brazil, Nigeria etc

ofcourse it's being used and is not replaceable for millions of years, but there is still a large amount


I can see your point there.

Even though it expensive to refine from tar sands, it isn't in a drastic shortage or anything. It's the investors playing that card to make more money?
ಥ_ಥ
#38
Quote by arsonite
I can see your point there.

Even though it expensive to refine from tar sands, it isn't in a drastic shortage or anything. It's the investors playing that card to make more money?



yea it is, i mean when some is investing in oil what is their priority? ensuring a steady supply for the people? or making money from the natural resource of other nations? (depriving that state of a resource that could be exported and help for their own development.)
#39
Quote by sargasm
I love how people are protesting oil prices, when it's their fault for being Dependant on it to fuel their bourgeois lifestyles.

If capitalism, industrialization and globalization is the problem (it is) let's stop trying to find a solution within those models.


New problems need new solutions. Thats why this could all be turned around and used as a catalyst for us to really grow past a lot of the flaws of our society. Its actually a big opportunity, all it takes is for people to be less selfish and materialistic. Unfortunately that just may be too much to ask.
We're only strays.
#40
Quote by jarudy

When most "oil spills" happen, like the one that happened not to long ago, only around 200 gallons of oil was spilled. Guess how much gasoline that makes? Around 2 gallons.

That's poor research.

Yes, it may only make 2 gallons of car-gasoline but that 200 gallons will be used, every last fl/oz, in making a vast number of fuels. These include things like propane, aeroplane fuel and other oil products.

The oil is split up by a process called 'cracking', where the oil is heated up slowly and different products 'come out' of the oil at different temperatures.
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