#1
Since C and Am are the same as far as key signature and stuff


does that mean they are interchangeable for soloing, are they one in the same?
And we will weave in and out of sanity unnoticed
Swirling in blissfully restless visions of all our bleary progress
Glowing in radiant madness
#2
they are the same key signature and note-wise but are completely different sound-wise. try playing Amajor behind Aminor. they aren't interchangeable in the way i think you mean. technically, the Aminor "scale" you are thinking of is the aeolian mode. Aminor actually has a G# in it.
#3
Quote by vjferrara
they are the same key signature and note-wise but are completely different sound-wise. try playing Amajor behind Aminor. they aren't interchangeable in the way i think you mean. technically, the Aminor "scale" you are thinking of is the aeolian mode. Aminor actually has a G# in it.


alright

so if I have a song in C, I have to use C, I can't use Am?
And we will weave in and out of sanity unnoticed
Swirling in blissfully restless visions of all our bleary progress
Glowing in radiant madness
#4
No. This is a common misconception.

Another common misconception is that a scale is restricted to a box. Every scale exists all over the neck and does not depend on position at all. If you play the notes C D E F G A B over a C major progression, anywhere on the neck, it is C major. If you play those notes over an Am progression, it is Am.

It should make sense that you solo with a scale with the same root note as the root note of your progression.

Quote by TDKshorty
so if I have a song in C, I have to use C, I can't use Am?
Yes, but this doesn't restrict your playing at all. You can still play licks in that "A minor pentatonic" box, but you would call it C major since your root is C rather than A.


When he says that A minor contains a G#, he is referring to the A harmonic minor scale. This scale has a natural 7th (when compared to the A major scale) which leads nicely to the A and is often used in minor keys. However, the A natural minor scale, what you're talking about, contains G, not G#.
Last edited by bangoodcharlote at May 6, 2008,
#5
Quote by bangoodcharlote
No. This is a common misconception.

Another common misconception is that a scale is restricted to a box. Every scale exists all over the neck and does not depend on position at all. If you play the notes C D E F G A B over a C major progression, anywhere on the neck, it is C major. If you play those notes over an Am progression, it is Am.

It should make sense that you solo with a scale with the same root note as the root note of your progression.


I understand how scales are constructed, I've been in a music theory class for the past 16 weeks.

and I definitely know about the box misconception, thjat's a horrible way to learn scales. I learned scales through songs and alot of John Frusciante improv

I would just be like "If I play this not, I have to go here, because it sounds best"
And we will weave in and out of sanity unnoticed
Swirling in blissfully restless visions of all our bleary progress
Glowing in radiant madness
#6
Quote by bangoodcharlote
No. This is a common misconception.

Another common misconception is that a scale is restricted to a box. Every scale exists all over the neck and does not depend on position at all. If you play the notes C D E F G A B over a C major progression, anywhere on the neck, it is C major. If you play those notes over an Am progression, it is Am.

It should make sense that you solo with a scale with the same root note as the root note of your progression.

^ like he said, but i think its easier to write a riff in a box and solo using the entire neck for the solo , but like he said you can play any note in the scale for your chord progression as long as it sounds good to you
#7
im sorry, i should've elaborated. technically, using a scale that starts on the same root as whatever key you are soloing over is the correct way. but, that isn't to say that you cannot "borrow" notes from other keys to use as passing tones or appogiaturas and whatever non-chord tone you can think of.
my only suggestion for you is to do what sounds good to you. don't rely on theory to guide you through your personal artistic creation. there are times when following a chord progression sounds good if you go to the chord that theory books would tell you NOT to go to. just pay attention to what sounds good to you - don't forget that if you play for other people and they leave, throw things at you, cringe, scream "Freebird!", or anything else then you might want to go back to doing what the theory books tell you
#8
Quote by TDKshorty
thjat's a horrible way to learn scales.
(sic)

It's actually a great way to learn scales and where notes are, but failing to realize that scales exist all over the neck is dangerous.

Quote by vjferrara
that isn't to say that you cannot "borrow" notes from other keys to use as passing tones or appogiaturas and whatever non-chord tone you can think of.
Borrowing a note to use as a passing tone is note the same as thinking you can play C major over an Am progression. besides, what note are you going to borrow from C major that isn't in Am?
Last edited by bangoodcharlote at May 6, 2008,
#9
depends on the chord progression itself. you can feasibly use a G# in Cmajor depending on the chord progression. if it uses a secondary dominant then it is possible that you use the G# in passing
#10
Quote by vjferrara
depends on the chord progression itself. you can feasibly use a G# in Cmajor depending on the chord progression. if it uses a secondary dominant then it is possible that you use the G# in passing


It's in my profile, it's rough and it's Song 1 I think
And we will weave in and out of sanity unnoticed
Swirling in blissfully restless visions of all our bleary progress
Glowing in radiant madness
#11
well, i wont be able to tell because of hearing problems but this is how it would be ok to use a G# - if you wanted to. Cmajor-Gmajor-Aminor,Emajor. you can use the G# in the Emajor chord. the progression is I-V-vi-V/vi. so there you can use the Aminor scale while only being in Aminor for 1 chord. after teh Emajor chord just play a Cmajor chord and you are now back in C
#12
Quote by vjferrara
depends on the chord progression itself. you can feasibly use a G# in Cmajor depending on the chord progression. if it uses a secondary dominant then it is possible that you use the G# in passing

That's not what's being argued. Yes, you can use G#. But if your tonal center is C, you are not playing A minor.
#13
i didn't really mean that he would literally be playing in Aminor, i just meant that notes from similar scales can always be used.
#14
Quote by vjferrara
i didn't really mean that he would literally be playing in Aminor, i just meant that notes from similar scales can always be used.
Explain this post.
#15
ok. we're talking about using an Aminor scale in the key of C. key signature-wise they are the same. note and sound-wise they are different. but, it is possible to use notes from the Aminor scale ie: G#, in the key of C depending on the chord progression. in the progression i used in the last post you can use the G# as a legit note over the Emajor chord OR(depending on whether you go to Cmajor or Aminor after the Emajor chord) you can use the G# as a leading tone to the A OR as a passing tone going to the note B and making a C7 chord.

if you've never used a I7 chord in your music you should definitely try it. it will sound surprising to your listeners and yet it isn't that unfamiliar to them
#16
Quote by vjferrara
ok. we're talking about using an Aminor scale in the key of C. key signature-wise they are the same. note and sound-wise they are different. but, it is possible to use notes from the Aminor scale ie: G#, in the key of C depending on the chord progression.

Uh, note-wise they're the same as well. Where exactly is the G# in the A natural minor scale? I've never found it.
#17
Quote by :-D
Uh, note-wise they're the same as well. Where exactly is the G# in the A natural minor scale? I've never found it.


they are not the same. there is no such thing as "natural minor". there is only harmonic and melodic. what people consider "natural minor" is actually the aeolian mode. when you think of key signatures then yes, they are the same key signature and that's only because minor key signatures reflect that of the relative major. when you are playing a chord progression in Aminor you are actually using the scale of the harmonic minor. the only reason that the "natural minor" even exists is because people decided that since the aeolian mode would have the same key signature as the relative major they would just use that as the key signature and consider it the "natural" minor.
#18
Quote by vjferrara
they are not the same. there is no such thing as "natural minor". there is only harmonic and melodic. what people consider "natural minor" is actually the aeolian mode. when you think of key signatures then yes, they are the same key signature and that's only because minor key signatures reflect that of the relative major. when you are playing a chord progression in Aminor you are actually using the scale of the harmonic minor. the only reason that the "natural minor" even exists is because people decided that since the aeolian mode would have the same key signature as the relative major they would just use that as the key signature and consider it the "natural" minor.

Wow. You're not the dumbass in my signature again, are you? If there was no natural minor scale, minor keys would never have been established. If you're using an A minor progression and done something like Am Dm Em Am, explain to me how you've used the A harmonic minor scale.
#19
you messed up in your progression, in Aminor, the V (E) is major. minor keys go:
i ii* III iv V VI vii*. minor scales came from the church modes of the renaissance and baroque periods. they evolved. what you consider the "natural minor" is actually the aeolian mode. modes go from Major-Dorian-Phryigian-Lydian-Mixolydian-Aeolian.
#20
Quote by vjferrara
you messed up in your progression, in Aminor, the V (E) is major. minor keys go:
i ii* III iv V VI vii*. minor scales came from the church modes of the renaissance and baroque periods. they evolved. what you consider the "natural minor" is actually the aeolian mode. modes go from Major-Dorian-Phryigian-Lydian-Mixolydian-Aeolian.

No, again you've screwed up. In A HARMONIC MINOR the fifth chord is major. In A NATURAL MINOR the five chord is minor. A Natural Minor is A B C D E F G, so E major is not contained within those notes. Don't attempt to tell me how things go in your ridiculous world of bullcrap music theory, because you don't know what you're talking about. I know my theory. You apparently do not. You've also said "major" instead of "Ionian" and left Locrian out altogether. Or is the Locrian mode also a figment of my imagination?

And don't go off on the tangents about modes. If a piece is in the key of A minor, it revolves around the A natural minor scale, not the A harmonic minor scale.
#21
Quote by vjferrara
they are not the same. there is no such thing as "natural minor". there is only harmonic and melodic. what people consider "natural minor" is actually the aeolian mode. when you think of key signatures then yes, they are the same key signature and that's only because minor key signatures reflect that of the relative major. when you are playing a chord progression in Aminor you are actually using the scale of the harmonic minor. the only reason that the "natural minor" even exists is because people decided that since the aeolian mode would have the same key signature as the relative major they would just use that as the key signature and consider it the "natural" minor.


Good God, no.
First of all, "aeolian" would imply modal music, not key based music. Modes are completely irrelevant here. Second, harmonic minor was created to give composers a major V chord in a minor key. It is an alteration to the natural minor scale, not vice versa. You have no idea what you're talking about.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#22
We started with Aeolian/Natural Minor, A B C D E F G.

We realized that the G did not lead as nicely back to A, so we raised it to G# and formed harmonic minor, A B C D E F G#.

We realized that F to G# is awkward, so we raised F to F# and formed melodic minor, A B C D E F# G#.

Later, though perhaps only a few seconds later, we decided to play the melodic minor descending as natural minor, and then much later, decided that doing that was gay.
#23
also... aside from what all these guys are saying (they are correct except for vjferrarra or whatver)

as Guthrie Govan has said: "ANY note can be made to sound good over ANY chord, so long as you put it in the right place!"
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Don't ask me I have no idea how the hell it happened.




To Me:

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#25
I know. what i meant as well as taking in what you and the smily face person said, TS should remember what i'm saying.
Quote by SlinkyBlue
I remember when I was really young, I had a wet dream in which i was being dragged along an urban countryside by a pickup truck.

Don't ask me I have no idea how the hell it happened.




To Me:

Quote by Son.Of.TheViper

I love you