#1
Valveking's no matter what you do to them or add to them they will always sound like a classic rock amp on steroids lol. It hit me last night when I was wondering why I keep playing my Randall over the VK and compared the tone. Randall = Metal, VK = Classic rock/thrash maybe. The thing just has that classic rock voicing..

Example you can turn the gain all the way up boost it and play something like Dio or 80's metallica. It’s right on key and doesn’t even act like anything was done to it... But say you get a 5150 or other metal best and do the same thing its instant modern heavy tone and your like well that is dio but holy hell that’s not your grampa's guitar (sorry metalocalypse quote came to mind).

So that pretty much sums up the issue I have been having, and yes I know you can get it to close to sounding modern but it still can’t do modern. Its like taking a Fender Blues Junior and trying to do death metal, you cant change the things voicing and this thing isn’t voiced for metal... Your basically taking it out of its element in a since and it doesnt like it lol..

So here are my options... Either way im getting something new next month, but I need to figure out what to do with the VK.

Options
1) Keep messing with it and wait for a mod company to slip up and release the schematics
2) Get my boutique guy (can build anything) to build me an amp and sell the VK
3) Buy a buddy’s 5150 and sell the VK
4) Get one of the above and keep it
5) Get a preamp like a MTS or maybe an e530(but I think I would be in the same boat classic rock wise with the engl) and run use the valvekings power section.
6) Think of some totally different option...

I'm just feed up with trying to find a good tone and turn this amp into something its not...
#2
Quote by IbanezPsycho

Options
1) Keep messing with it and wait for a mod company to slip up and release the schematics


Don't wait: http://www.schematicheaven.com/post70s.htm
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#5
Quote by \m/metallica\m/
Get the 5150, or better yet, sell your valveking, save up some cash, buy what you really want, and use your randall for the time being.


Yea thats the plan and one of the reasons i bought the Randall. To be honest the top amp on my list is the 5150. Only issue is, its only good for one thing and that is modern metal which i do love and play 80% of the time. But i dont want to get into another VK instance were the amp is only good for one thing. Thats the only thing holding me back. And i dont think the wife would let me get away with buying a 3k amp for bedroom use and especially with me being a medicore if not lower player at best.

Might be able to squeeze a EVH 5150 III out of her though, she actually liked that amp and i get the best of both worlds...
#6
yeah, the VK isn't for everyone. It can def nail Iron Maiden/Metalica tones, it is a classic rock amp on roids, probably the best term for it. Different strokes for different folks. I seem to get pretty heavy tones out of mine if I want to...

I've already posted the clip a dozen times.

http://boomp3.com/listen/ew5qc87/vktest

I guess that sounds "thrashy" but tone is always subjective.
Quote by HxCori<3
you sir, are the ultimate UG stereotype, praise a not so good metal player, zakk, put down other peoples playing, seriously say I WAS GONAA PLAYZ SOME UBER LEEDS LOZLOERLS~1!!!11!, and then critique epiphones as if there worth a second glance
Last edited by ParryPerson at May 7, 2008,
#7
Quote by ParryPerson
yeah, the VK isn't for everyone. It can def nail Iron Maiden/Metalica tones, it is a classic rock amp on roids, probably the best term for it. Different strokes for different folks. I seem to get pretty heavy tones out of mine if I want to...

I've already posted the clip a dozen times.

http://boomp3.com/listen/ew5qc87/vktest

I guess that sounds "thrashy" but tone is always subjective.


Yea, liked your sound clip and i do like the thrash tone.. But im not into thrash at the moment thats in the past for me. I do still like to play it every once and a while but with everything sounding like thrash and classic rock is getting me quite irrtated that i have to play something thrashy or it sounds totally off.

But you are right some people love that tone and love playing it 100% of the time. Im just more in the line of a 5150/6505 at the moment..
#8
^ the valveking would never come near a 5150 or 6505. And to be honest those amps, the 5150 /6505 are mostly built for metal. You could look into mesa's, they make some damn good amps. Rectoverb's/single rect's are always good to check out, good for the budget too. You could get them cheap used as well, under 1000. Also Dual rectifier's are another good option for more $$. The Mark IV's are supposedly great amps, i've never had the chance to play one. With my experience, i'd take a single/dual rectifier over a 6505, just purely because the clean channel is much better, and i prefer the voicing on the high gain channel of the recto to the 6505. But hey man thats just me.
If you really like the peavey, get it! And make sure to sell the VK. That amp is awful IMO.

!
#9
Quote by \m/metallica\m/
^ the valveking would never come near a 5150 or 6505. And to be honest those amps, the 5150 /6505 are mostly built for metal. You could look into mesa's, they make some damn good amps. Rectoverb's/single rect's are always good to check out, good for the budget too. You could get them cheap used as well, under 1000. Also Dual rectifier's are another good option for more $$. The Mark IV's are supposedly great amps, i've never had the chance to play one. With my experience, i'd take a single/dual rectifier over a 6505, just purely because the clean channel is much better, and i prefer the voicing on the high gain channel of the recto to the 6505. But hey man thats just me.
If you really like the peavey, get it! And make sure to sell the VK. That amp is awful IMO.

!


Yea, still have to talk to my boutique guy as well. He has a monster of an amp he built for someone else that he wants me to try. For all i know it might the holy grail so i still have to get the time to go try it out.

If that doesnt pan out i might bite the bullet and get the 5150 or sell the VK first take the cash i was going to use for it and maybe pick up at EVH 5150 III or something along those lines. I have to have something with 5150 gain in it or i know ill just end up wasting money and end up buying one later. Love the gain of the 5150 but hate the hate the clean and versatility issue.
#11
Quote by \m/metallica\m/
^ how do i mesa?
i think the EVH 5150III has better cleans, but that was a while ago i played it.


Dont get me wrong i love Mesa's but i dont like how loose they are especially at bedroom levels. I wont be giggin or even turning it up past 2 half the time. Hell i was even looking at that 18Watt Randall MTS, might actually suit me fine but its expensive for what it is...

Amps im into at the moment

5150/6505
Splawn Nitro
Krank Krankenstein
Engl Powerball
EVH 5150 III
Mark IV
Randall MTS
#12
Quote by IbanezPsycho
Dont get me wrong i love Mesa's but i dont like how loose they are especially at bedroom levels. I wont be giggin or even turning it up past 2 half the time. Hell i was even looking at that 18Watt Randall MTS, might actually suit me fine but its expensive for what it is...

Amps im into at the moment

5150/6505
Splawn Nitro
Krank Krankenstein
Engl Powerball
EVH 5150 III
Mark IV
Randall MTS

hey bro, that's quite a list.
I would reconsider the Nitro if you can't turn it up though, it's a LOUD mofo, and it LOVES volume. If you go for a Krankenstein, go for the + series. The upgrades really helped that amp. IMO, there was a very small range of eq where it sounded really kickass on the older ones. The newer one opens up a lot more of the EQ, it's a little tighter and punchier, and it has more lowend. They both love volume though, the sound changes quite a bit when they start moving air. The PB and 6505/5150 are a little better about it comparitively, but they also need some volume to sound their best.

I've heard the 5153 is pretty good about low vol, but I'm relying on a friends opinion. It's one I want to get my mitts on though. Mark IV has a pretty good low vol tone, although it's pretty sensitive on the master volume. It's got the switchable power settings, but IMO, if metal is the goal, it sounds it's best in the full power mode, pentode. That seems to be where it's the tightest and punchiest. It's an amp you need to play however, I thought it was plenty br00talz enough for metal, but apparently there are a lot of users that didn't think so. No experience with the Randal modules.
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#13
Quote by Erock503
hey bro, that's quite a list.
I would reconsider the Nitro if you can't turn it up though, it's a LOUD mofo, and it LOVES volume. If you go for a Krankenstein, go for the + series. The upgrades really helped that amp. IMO, there was a very small range of eq where it sounded really kickass on the older ones. The newer one opens up a lot more of the EQ, it's a little tighter and punchier, and it has more lowend. They both love volume though, the sound changes quite a bit when they start moving air. The PB and 6505/5150 are a little better about it comparitively, but they also need some volume to sound their best.

I've heard the 5153 is pretty good about low vol, but I'm relying on a friends opinion. It's one I want to get my mitts on though. Mark IV has a pretty good low vol tone, although it's pretty sensitive on the master volume. It's got the switchable power settings, but IMO, if metal is the goal, it sounds it's best in the full power mode, pentode. That seems to be where it's the tightest and punchiest. It's an amp you need to play however, I thought it was plenty br00talz enough for metal, but apparently there are a lot of users that didn't think so. No experience with the Randal modules.


Thanks for the info Erock its great to hear from someone with hands on experience.. Sucks i cant get a hold of most of these amps to test around here. The 5150 and 5150 III sounded decent enough for me at low volumes, so far i have tested those out. I really want to give the Mark IV a shot as well before I make my choice. The MTS would be smooth but the cost is holding me back on them. In the end, might just have to give my boutique guy a schematic and say make this in 18-50 watts. Sucks they don't really make metal amps in smaller wattages besides the MTS...
#14
7) Buy an EQ ppedal
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

Quote by Dave_Mc
i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


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#15
Quote by IbanezPsycho
Thanks, already have that schematic i need the one of the actual mod so i can see what the they modded. And replicate it...


One (or more?) of the preamp tubes is used as a cathode follower. If you take the output from the plate instead, you'll get a lot more gain.
#17
Quote by mr_hankey
One (or more?) of the preamp tubes is used as a cathode follower. If you take the output from the plate instead, you'll get a lot more gain.


Thanks ill look into that. But i dont think it will help much i have plenty of gain on tap, its the voicing and gain structure im having the issue with.
#18
Why not run the Randall and VK in stereo, getting flavors from both amps? That is until you can get what you want.
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#19
5150 can get a pretty good classic rock sound on the Rhythm (Crunch) Channel
5150 Combo
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#20
Quote by IbanezPsycho
Thanks ill look into that. But i dont think it will help much i have plenty of gain on tap, its the voicing and gain structure im having the issue with.


In that case you should mainly be looking at tonestack values. Changing cathode bypass caps would be an easy way to get big changes as well.
#21
Quote by LaidBack
Why not run the Randall and VK in stereo, getting flavors from both amps? That is until you can get what you want.


Ben there done that... sounds like two amps i really dont like lol... Classic rock vk and SS randall sounds ehhhh so so... lol

Quote by mr_hankey
In that case you should mainly be looking at tonestack values. Changing cathode bypass caps would be an easy way to get big changes as well.


Do you have any info or schematics on doing the modifications.... Might give it a try..
#23
Quote by xMikeyxMetalx
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Krank-Rev-Jr.-20W-HalfStack-Guitar-Amp?sku=481613
this might work better since you dont need a lot of volume.
ive seen some youtube videos where it sounds good
i wish i could try it myself.


I'm probally just going to bite the bullet and get me a 6505... But im still checking my options and forgot about that amp.. Only issue is 700 bucks for 20 watts is insane lol 300 more and i can just get the 6505...
#25
Quote by jimmy666page666
I'd take the 6505 over the VK anyday.

Believe me i know lol. I was going to get it before i got the VK but my wife hated the 6505 and said she would destroy it if i purchased it lol.. She isnt to keen on the distortion (actually made her sick, angry and disgusted just hearing it.. Which i thought was pretty sweet, but she did not).. So i got the VK because i wanted a tube amp and hated my SS. But now after her seeing my misery and she has got to hear a few 6505's in action she let me take her back up to GC and i let her play with the knobs as i played and she doesnt mind it so much now. She thinks something was just wrong with the first amp and said this one sounds nothing like it (maybe it was the amp made by the devil himself or it was blown like my vk lol who knows). But anyway i have been given the ok... But now mesa's are on her hate list lol but i dont mind to much...

So far she likes the 6505, Marshall KK, XXX, and EVH 5150 III.. Atleast her taste in metal amps is pretty decent...

And yall can make all the jokes ya want i wasnt about to come home to my amp in pieces...lol

But yea thats the story of the VK purchase...
Last edited by IbanezPsycho at May 8, 2008,
#26
5150's/6505's are awesome amps in my opinion
and with the pedal and rack gear you have it will sound even better.
a chorus pedal would help the cleans if you need them
i find the cleans are ok if i just roll back the tone and volume on my guitar and they arent as terrible as everyone says they are (they certainly arent fender cleans by any means though)

but out of all those amps, id take the 5150III for sure.
its amazing, the distortion is just as brutal but much tighter than a 6505.
plus it actually does have fender cleans as well.
its the best amp i've ever played in my opinion.

but
Guitar:
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#27
5150's/6505's are awesome amps in my opinion
and with the pedal and rack gear you have it will sound even better.
a chorus pedal would help the cleans if you need them
i find the cleans are ok if i just roll back the tone and volume on my guitar and they arent as terrible as everyone says they are (they certainly arent fender cleans by any means though)

but out of all those amps, id take the 5150III for sure.
its amazing, the distortion is just as brutal but much tighter than a 6505.
plus it actually does have fender cleans as well.
its the best amp i've ever played in my opinion.

but


Yup, love the 6505 and have read up on the clean tricks... And like ya said my setup should accomadate that amp pretty nice...

Like the 5150 III but with that sticker i could buy me a 6505 and a fender lol
#28
yeah its pretty much the exact thing im going for
i just need a decimator, a sonic maximizer, and an eq.
along with a new guitar i hopefully get as a birthday present
and ill be in metal tone heaven.

are you going to look for used 5150's/6505's?
Guitar:
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Amps:
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#29
Quote by HxCori<3
you sir, are the ultimate UG stereotype, praise a not so good metal player, zakk, put down other peoples playing, seriously say I WAS GONAA PLAYZ SOME UBER LEEDS LOZLOERLS~1!!!11!, and then critique epiphones as if there worth a second glance
#30
Quote by xMikeyxMetalx
yeah its pretty much the exact thing im going for
i just need a decimator, a sonic maximizer, and an eq.
along with a new guitar i hopefully get as a birthday present
and ill be in metal tone heaven.

are you going to look for used 5150's/6505's?


Was going for a used 5150 but by the time i buy it and change the tubes im at the cost of a new 6505 and dont know the life span of the amp. So ill probally just get a new one... $999.99 no tax, extra year warranty, free shipping and a payment plan.... So i dont have to wait to sell the VK before i get it...

And been reading up on the mods for the 6505 so that will keep me busy as well. God knows i like to mod stuff..
Last edited by IbanezPsycho at May 8, 2008,
#31
i got my 5150 with tubes only a month old for $500 so i lucked out.
im thinking about putting some v30s in it though
the stock speakers are decent
put i think some v30s would be great.
Guitar:
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Amps:
Engl Fireball
Genz Benz G-Flex 2x12 Cab
#32
Quote by xMikeyxMetalx
i got my 5150 with tubes only a month old for $500 so i lucked out.
im thinking about putting some v30s in it though
the stock speakers are decent
put i think some v30s would be great.


Could pick up my buddys head for 600... But i think im going new...

I've seen a few combos for as low as 450 but dont need the extra speakers when i have a half stack... Plus i prefer the tone on the heads more for some reason.. Sounds like there voiced a tad bit different..
#33
Quote by ParryPerson


Sorry man wish i could agree with you.. but even the dude in the first video is pretty much playing all thrash songs....

In the second one it does sound more modern yes but its so muddy you cant make out anything. Which is what happens when you try and take this amp into the modern metal realm. You have to add a whole lot of gain and boost the mids but doing that with these amps your low end stuff just muds out and your high end stuff sounds like thrash with way to much gain.

Heres is a video comparison of a modern metal tone.. Recorded with a video camera as well for comparisons sake.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=281650837967719893&q=6505&ei=8QwkSPXKKpiAqwLo1am5DA&hl=en

But its all good man
Last edited by IbanezPsycho at May 9, 2008,
#34
Quote by IbanezPsycho
Sorry man wish i could agree with you.. but even the dude in the first video is pretty much playing all thrash songs....

In the second one it does sound more modern yes but its so muddy you cant make out anything. Which is what happens when you try and take this amp into the modern metal realm. You have to add a whole lot of gain and boost the mids but doing that with these amps your low end stuff just muds out and your high end stuff sounds like thrash with way to much gain.

Heres is a video comparison of a modern metal tone.. Recorded with a video camera as well for comparisons sake.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=281650837967719893&q=6505&ei=8QwkSPXKKpiAqwLo1am5DA&hl=en

But its all good man


Cool, well I wish you luck in learning guitar, might as well learn on something you like

EDIT: Guess I found out I'm not much of a fan of modern metal tones, if thats what modern metal is. I've never listened to thrash.... guess I should check it out lol.
Quote by HxCori<3
you sir, are the ultimate UG stereotype, praise a not so good metal player, zakk, put down other peoples playing, seriously say I WAS GONAA PLAYZ SOME UBER LEEDS LOZLOERLS~1!!!11!, and then critique epiphones as if there worth a second glance
Last edited by ParryPerson at May 9, 2008,
#35
Quote by ParryPerson
Cool, well I wish you luck in learning guitar, might as well learn on something you like

EDIT: Guess I found out I'm not much of a fan of modern metal tones, if thats what modern metal is. I've never listened to thrash.... guess I should check it out lol.



Thanks and thats the plan... I spend more time tweaking then playing the VK at the moment lol

Yea, modern metal is a preference thing.. Pull up some of these bands and give a listen All that remains, Gojira and Chamira Vs Say 80's Metallica and Megadeth.

Thrash was all i listened to for a good 10 years I just got into the modern stuff a few years ago and now thats pretty much all listen to.