#1
I would like a better understanding of modes. If you were playing a Hard rock progression in the key of A minor what scales are arpeggios would go good with this.
#2
That's too generic to tell you exactly what to do, and most hard rock isn't modal anyway. Most music isn't really modal to be honest. Modes are quite limiting harmonically.

Read the theory sticky at the top of this forum.
#4
yeh like smiley and BGC said, rock is pretty much strictly pentatonic and blues, occasionally referencing some of the modes (ionian, aeolian, mixolydian i think as well), the modes would appear more in jazz, or shred (not the mindless alternate pick the aeolian shred the good shred, like paul gilbert).
Quote by coolstoryangus
Pffffffft schematics


Although i guess the OP will have to get used to reading them if he's going to buy a bugera..
Quote by gregs1020


along with fire escape routes...

#5
Hard rock uses plenty of scales other than the minor pentatonic; Dorian, Aeolian, Phrygian, and Harmonic Minor are common, but those will be dependent on the progression. Minor pentatonic will work over most anything, even the V7 chord as the b7 o the minor pent "functions as the #9 of that chord."


Ignore that last sentence if you need to.
Last edited by bangoodcharlote at May 11, 2008,
#6
i figured dorian would be in there, but can you you give examples of who uses harmonic minor?
Quote by coolstoryangus
Pffffffft schematics


Although i guess the OP will have to get used to reading them if he's going to buy a bugera..
Quote by gregs1020


along with fire escape routes...

#7
Harmonic minor would be used over a progression containing the major V chord. Am G F E7 is a common example. You play A natural minor over the first three chords and A harmonic minor over E7.

Dorian would be used in a bluesy context, so something like G5 Bb5 C5 could use G Dorian combined with Gm Pent, G Blues, and perhaps G Natural Minor and Phrygian.
#9
Quote by bangoodcharlote
Hard rock uses plenty of scales other than the minor pentatonic; Dorian, Aeolian, Phrygian, and Harmonic Minor are common, but those will be dependent on the progression. Minor pentatonic will work over most anything, even the V7 chord as the b7 o the minor pent "functions as the #9 of that chord."


Ignore that last sentense if you need to.



As has been said, there isn't a lot of modal use in rock music. The most common mode in rock besides Aeolian is Phrygian, and in bluesier styles you might hear use of Myxolydian. Other modes are rarely heard, and usually when they are they are using the "main" interval in the context of a riff as a hook.
#10
Quote by bangoodcharlote
I agree with the rest of your post, but I have an issue with this. While I would use a "blank" key signature for D Dorian, I would include a note at the beginning the the key signature denotes D Dorian rather than C major or A minor.


this quote is from that post that got closed but..... I don't get your problem here. A piece in D dorian would indeed use the C major "blank" key signature. No additional indication is necessary.
#11
Quote by CowboyUp


Quote by GuitarMunky
this quote is from that post that got closed but..... I don't get your problem here. A piece in D dorian would indeed use the C major "blank" key signature. No additional indication is necessary.
I agree that you should use the C major key signature for a D Dorian piece. However, it would be good to clarify that the piece used the D Dorian mode and revolves around the D note rather than A or C.

I've seen this done, so I'm not just a crazine making things up.
#12
Quote by bangoodcharlote


I agree that you should use the C major key signature for a D Dorian piece. However, it would be good to clarify that the piece used the D Dorian mode and revolves around the D note rather than A or C.

I've seen this done, so I'm not just a crazine making things up.


I believe you. Its often done without indicators as well. Any of the modal music I have in my text books all just have the standard key signatures, and no other indicators.
#13
Perhaps it's not required, but I suggest doing it. The idea of writing music is to make it easy to communicate an idea, not make the performer wonder, "why the hell doesn't this resolve to C or A?"
#14
Quote by bangoodcharlote
Perhaps it's not required, but I suggest doing it. The idea of writing music is to make it easy to communicate an idea, not make the performer wonder, "why the hell doesn't this resolve to C or A?"

Just out of curiosity, have you seen any pieces of music (not written by yourself) in which the composer has indicated the mode as you suggested above?
#15
I've only seen it on the powertab for 'Glasgow Kiss' by John Petrucci. At the start it says 'key signature denotes E mixolydian'
My name is Andy
Quote by MudMartin
Only looking at music as math and theory, is like only looking at the love of your life as flesh and bone.

Swinging to the rhythm of the New World Order,
Counting bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drums
#16
Quote by :-D
Just out of curiosity, have you seen any pieces of music (not written by yourself) in which the composer has indicated the mode as you suggested above?
It's not the composer, but my Hendrix book has that written in a few times.
#18
I don't think it's necessary. Theres never anything written to specify whether a key sig is major or minor.

I don't think it helps performance in the sense of someone just playing the notes. The music takes care of itself in that situation. But if there are improvisational sections I guess it would help greatly.
My name is Andy
Quote by MudMartin
Only looking at music as math and theory, is like only looking at the love of your life as flesh and bone.

Swinging to the rhythm of the New World Order,
Counting bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drums
#19
i think that keeping it simple and going with a pentatonic
or aeolian will be pretty cool. You can take that A minor
chord and fit it into 5 gagillion scales and modes. You have
a whole lot of possibilities...The only reason people recommend
the most usual scales and modes is because it will keep your
music in the direction that u started writing it in.

It would be really hard for ACDC to jam and rock out and then
have Angus go into a Phrygian solo. Although it would fit..it would
most likely wreck everything. Some scales and modes create
atmospheres. It can be good or bad..

Metallica has started out with Phrygian in the past..
Thats a good way to start out a song saying..im sad, lonely an depressed.
If your singin about gettin drunk and gettin laid..and youre creating
and atmosphere that makes women wanna take off their tops..
you might not wanna go there..lol..If you want them to cry thats different.
I bet Charlie Brown's teacher's name was Mrs.Hammett
#20
Quote by Washburnd Fretz
It would be really hard for ACDC to jam and rock out and then
have Angus go into a Phrygian solo. Although it would fit..it would
most likely wreck everything.

Why do you say this?
#21
Quote by :-D
Why do you say this?


Well..for one..there are cultural differences..

In our culture the Phrygian mode doesnt reflect many other
emotions than sadness. Its very Minor sounding to us.

Japanese scales are cool. My friends like for me to play them
and make samurai movie type licks.

Although these can be used in our music they may not always
fit because of our culture.

Another thing is that modes and scales can create a certain
feeling when they are played. Music is like a language.
Tim Mcgraw cant sing a beautiful love song and then in the last
chorus start singing *I wanna F*ck you like an Animal!!!!*
But Trent Reznor could..he established that in the beginning of
his song..but he cant all of a sudden start talkin about marriage
and how much he loves and cares..

So sometimes when u listen to music...using a certain scale or
mode for a solo can contradict the entire feeling of the music...
You can make a mood change in a song...thats no prob.
but..the entire mood of the song has to change..you cant simply
insert a different emotion into what you already have.

So..it all depends on what you are trying to say...
So..no Phrygian modes for Angus..When you think of ACDC..
sadness and dispair are hardly ever emotions that you remember..
I bet Charlie Brown's teacher's name was Mrs.Hammett
Last edited by Washburnd Fretz at May 11, 2008,
#22
Quote by Ænimus Prime
I don't think it's necessary. Theres never anything written to specify whether a key sig is major or minor.
The idea of writing music is to communicate ideas clearly. Anything you do to clarify something will help the performer, even if it isn't required.
#23
Quote by bangoodcharlote
Perhaps it's not required, but I suggest doing it. The idea of writing music is to make it easy to communicate an idea, not make the performer wonder, "why the hell doesn't this resolve to C or A?"



well thats nice, but its not common practice, and its not something you need to correct someone on for not doing. Its standard to just use the key signature. if the player knows any theory, they will understand what key its in. If they don't that indicator is meaningless anyway.\
Quote by bangoodcharlote
The idea of writing music is to communicate ideas clearly. Anything you do to clarify something will help the performer, even if it isn't required.


you must mean "notating" music not writing. The purpose of writing music is up to the writer.

anyway you corrected me on something that you personally made up, not on something thats in actual practice. That doesnt really make too much sense does it.
I mean its a nice suggestion. You could always call the writers of all my theory texts and give them a hard time about it if you want, but to disagree with someone that states something that is consistent with common practice, is just plain silly.
Last edited by GuitarMunky at May 11, 2008,