#1
Ok, well one of the powertubes in my Mark IV died today and I don't really wanna take a chance on the rest of them so I'm just gonna do a full retube so I know it's safe and I won't have to keep replacing tubes when they die like I have been.

I want Tung-Sols in the preamp and JJs in the poweramp for sure, but I dont know what kind I should get.

The Mark IV is able to run off 6L6s, EL34s or 2 of each. I kind wanna do two of each, but I'm not sure how this would sound or if I'd like it, anyone tried this before? I figure I might be able to get a more Marshally sound out of R2 maybe? That'd be cool.

There's also the variants like the KT77s and KT88s, will these work in the Mark IV instead of 6L6s/EL34s? Would anyone recommend I put them in in the first place?

What I'm looking for: Tight, articulate gain that is aggressive sounding on the Lead channel, but not fizzy, I like it more smooth. I'd like the cleans to be as good as possible, but without compromising on something else, as well as R2 having some more punch to it as it seems kinda bland how I have it now.

Suggestions?
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
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#3
Quote by Doodleface

Yes, I know that's there. It doesn't help me.

I want to know what 6L6s and EL-34s sound like mixed essentially, that thread says nothing of the sort.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
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maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





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#5
Quote by IbanezPsycho
Check out THD Univibe i think they have some clips with them mixed.

I'll check it out, though the Univibe isn't a high gain amp if I'm not mistaken, which still really wouldn't give me that great of an idea
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





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#6
With 6L6 tubes it will sound like an American high gain monster.
With EL34 tubes it will sound more like a growling British monster.

That doesn't help really...

Well, I am trying to imagine a Mark IV with 6L6 tubes being played in stereo with an Orange Rockerverb 100 [with an od pedal]

I'm an EL34 guy, but i've never really tried mixed tubes.

You might try taking it to a shop that has some tubes laying around and try combinations. You don't have to bias it, so just pop them in and see what you think.
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#7
Quote by chase312
You might try taking it to a shop that has some tubes laying around and try combinations. You don't have to bias it, so just pop them in and see what you think.

That's a really good idea, though I don't think any shops around here would let me do it

I hear MESAExplorer put 6L6s in Erock's old Mark IV when he got it, mixed with the EL-34s and liked it a lot better, just waitin for him to come around so I can talk to em about it.

As of now, I'm really thinking about doing a 6L6/KT77 combo.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





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#8
I would email Eurotubes and ask them, when I emailed them they were very helpful and informative and gave me a number of recommendations for my amp.
A dwarf might hear you. What then?

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#9
Quote by timi_hendrix
I would email Eurotubes and ask them, when I emailed them they were very helpful and informative and gave me a number of recommendations for my amp.

I did actually, as well as Doug's Tubes, just waitin on a response
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#10
The shops may let you as long as you intend on buying the tubes. Just ask if they have a few spares you can try for a few minutes.

I've never done it though, so it's up to you.
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#11
When mixing different tubes in the same amp like that, you will probably lose even-order harmonics because of the mismatch. In a Mesa, that would probably be a good thing since you wanted to roll off the highs a bit. It will also decrease your power a small amount so you can get a darker tone by turning the amp up. Four 6l6s would give you a bigger clean tone though, and more punch. I'd get a quad of 6l6s and then you can use your old El34s to mix with them, see which combo you like best.
#12
Quote by Roc8995
Four 6l6s would give you a bigger clean tone though, and more punch. I'd get a quad of 6l6s and then you can use your old El34s to mix with them, see which combo you like best.

I actually have 6L6s in it currently and honestly don't think the clean tone is all that great, when I hear the Mark IVs are really nice at them. It seems overly warm, eventhough I like my cleans kinda warm. Through my SG and Strat they sound lifeless, sterile and uninspiring, however, through my RG, the cleans a noticably a lot better, it really brought them to life, but I know I can do better.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





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#14
Hm. Unfortunately some of that sterility might just be the amp. I've never been able to dial it out completely with mesas. Try this:
Tung-sol KT66s
V1: Tung-sol 12AX7
V2: EH 12AX7
V3: JJ 12AX7
V4: Old preamp tube

Here's why:
KT66s should have a tighter bottom end and be a bit more marshally than your 6l6s.
In V1, the Tung-sol is a good all-around tube.
V2 is an EH because it is a little on the cold side to reduce that bloatiness you're getting with cleans- V2A is the third gain stage for the clean channel. V2B is the effects loop.
V3 is a JJ because both sides of the tube are used for the dirty channel, so you want an aggressive and gainy tube there.
V4 is the reverb tube so you can toss anything in there.
#15
ummmm.... you CANNOT use 4 el34's in a mark iv. don't work! KABOOM! (dramatization)

sorry, i think that sterile sound is part of the mark. thats how mine is too, just how things go.

as for the difference in your guitars, pickups REALLY show their character with this amp. i find the pickups in my SG faded sound good but are VERY muddy. and my stock ibanez s520 pickups are very clear but extremely sterile and lifeless. hope this helps.

^and roc, there's 5 preamp tubes in a mark iv. v5 is the reverb.
Well Enough Alone
#16
^Crap, then what schematic was I looking at? Was there an old one with four?
Last edited by Roc8995 at May 11, 2008,
#17
Quote by Roc8995
^Crap, then what schematic was I looking at? Was there an old one with four?

maybe marki or ii?
Well Enough Alone
#18
I just checked, I had it right, just skipped the phase inverter. My schematic says V4 is the reverb and V5 is the phase inverter. Tung-sol goes in that one.
#19
JJ's aren't the best in (either of) my Mark IVs. Try Doug's tubes.. I'm gonna order a full set of preamp tubes from there one of these days.

(medium head FS in gear ads.. i'll be using the widebody combo because i'm going to college)
Last edited by REPOMAN at May 11, 2008,
#20
Talk to Bob at Eurotubes. He seems to know a few things about JJ's.
I'm not sure if mixed tube types would sound good.
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#21
Here's what Doug said:


The KT77's are a direct EL34 sub, but my feeling on these is that the Mesa amps run way too cold in plate voltage for these to sound right. Stick with an EL34. JJ 6L6's are also very low in current for some reason, and work best in adjustible bias amps. I like the winged =C= SED tubes and the RUBY power tubes for the Mesa. If you're set on JJ power tubes, we have E34L's and JJ 6L6GC's in stock so no worries there.

Here's a mix of 12AX7's we feel should be in every players tone arsenal with suggested starting positions:

V1 - Tung-Sol reissue 12AX7
V2 - High gain JJ ECC83S
V3 - Penta Labs 12AX7
V4 - Shuguang 12AX7C9
V5 - Sovtek 12AX7LPS

We leave it up to each player to make the final choices for what position the tubes go to.

Let me know what you think.


Regards,
Doug


Thanks for all the replies guys!
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





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#22
That's a cool way to do it, get one of each and them mix and match. That should work very well, I think. Doug's a good guy- he's probably right about the power tubes too.
#23
Quote by Roc8995
That's a cool way to do it, get one of each and them mix and match. That should work very well, I think.

Yeah, I thought so too, I'd never really thought of mixing that many. Gives you a way for if you don't like the sound of it a certain way, you switch out one position for another one of the tubes and you're not just stuck with all the same ones.

Here's what Eddie from Eurotubes said:


The original Simul-class MK IV's are fixed bias at a fairly cool setting on the inside two sockets and much warmer in the outside two sockets so any matched set of 6L6's or EL34 type tubes including the JJ Electronic 6L6GC or JJ E34L's or the JJ KT77’s are just plug and play and they don't have to be matched as a quad.

The JJ E34L's provide a deeper low end and are more aggressive and punchy than an EL34. The E34L is tighter with slightly more headroom and power with a more aggressive crunch, a very articulate British tone.

The JJ KT77 is not quite a tight as the E34L, but tighter than an EL34. The 77's have even a bit more low end extension than the E34L's and they have a nice sizzle in the top end that is not brittle. The clean tone is very fat and full and the crunch has more of a chunk to it and it's very punchy but not quite as aggressive as the E34L, a great tube for rhythm and solo work.

So for a comparison the JJ 6L6GC's have about the same low end as the KT77's but are a cleaner tube with a later breakup and they are not as mid range heavy. More of a traditional Fender type tone.

If you’re looking for the warmest possible tone without the British sound of the EL34's or KT77’s then I would go with a matched quad of the JJ 6L6GC's.

If you run a pair of 6L6’s with any EL34 type tube the 6L6’s need to go in the inside sockets.

If you end up wanting to try the JJ’s in the front end we typically use four of the JJ ECC83S preamp tubes and I would make one of them a balanced ECC83S because it's the phase inverter and a balanced PI tube will help smooth the amp out. The JJ's have a very deep tight low end, a natural harmonically rich mid and a smooth sweet high end with a nice sparkle that's not brittle. These tubes both power and pre would be plug and play.

The only other option would be if you want any of the preamp tubes premium graded for gain. The high gain ECC83S's have about 10% more gain than standards which adds a bit of bite and a sharper dynamic but does not hurt the clean tone. The other attribute that these tubes have is a faster filament rise time which is great for an EVH, Petrucci or Satriani type style and is also good for fast palm mute styles. If you decide to use these I would use them in V1, V2 and V3.

If you decide to place an order you can do so online ( https://ssl.eurotubes.com/cart/ ). This is a Comodo certified secure system, but please don't feel obligated to order online you are always welcome to just give us a call at 503-659-7401 during business hours which are from 9AM to 6PM west coast time to place an order personally. You can also place an order by FAX at 503-659-7385. All that's necessary is your shipping address and a VISA, MC, Discover or American Express number including the expiration date. If you decide to order by phone during business hours and you get our voice mail, leave a number and we will call you back!

Thanks,

Eddie
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com