#1
...Or so I thought, because if I stopped to think about it, I dont mind being the amp being loud, however Im going to be living in a flat next year, and doubt the flatmates would be too happy about me noodling for 5 hours straight (Im a bedroom jammer, so for now I dont need anything crazy loud) but since I want to break out of the combo-practice amp life im living, and get something more serious, Im thinking of getting a 1x12 cab to go with the head of my choosing. Sorry for draggin everybody on for ages, but long story short, I was wondering since a lot of amp heads are 100+ watts, and 1x12 tend to be 100w and lower, would I be ruining the sound the amp head could make if it was 120w and the cab was 75w (for example)? Thanks for bearing with me, I tried to find suitable answers online for the last couple of hours but nothing good came of it.
#2
you really dont need to pay for a halfstack to sit in your room

get an awesome combo instead, if youre never going to crank it, its a waste of money
Get off this damn forum and play your damn guitar.
#3
Quote by stevo_epi_SG_wo
you really dont need to pay for a halfstack to sit in your room

get an awesome combo instead, if youre never going to crank it, its a waste of money


Yup.
#4
Their are plenty of gig-worthy, quality sounding valve combos around. A half-stack isn't always necessary for gigs, and may still be suitable for bedroom jamming.
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#5
Well if you really dont want a combo, then go for a head and a 2x12 enstead of a 1x12. That way you have plenty of extra room on the speaker side just in case. Also id look into getting something with different options for wattage like the carvin v3 head allows for 50/100 watts. But other than that, what type of music do you like, do you plan on gigging anytime soon. What is your budget
#6
well first of all. you DONT need 100w, you dont NEED a half stack, especially when you say you are gonna be in a flat next year. trust me, get a tube combo like a traynor or a good fender blues deville or something like that and you would be set. and i you were looking at 100w amps like you were saying they are probly solid state, if you were to get a tube head at 100w good luck getting a good volume to play at a flat. heed my advice buddy.
Guitars:
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#7
thanks for all the input-I have quite a bit of money saved up now, so Im just deciding how much to spend on a new amp system before i start paying for cosmetics and stuff like that, so roughly 2000 bucks if i wanted to go all out. I play mostly steve vai and yngwie, and things like that.
#8
To emphasize: I suppose i always thought of amp heads producing the best sound, much better than a combo for example, I just want to have that great sound at room levels. Is this a misconception and i should get a 15w combo instead? (Cause i wouldnt mind, it just seems like all 15w combos have no features and are crappy)
#9
mesa 5:25/5:50 springs to mind but if youre going to spend that much anyway you might want to look at stacks after all
Get off this damn forum and play your damn guitar.
#10
half-stacks are for big-huge-bands for big-huge-gigs.

Half stacks are also for guys who wish they have a big-huge-schlong. 100 watts of tube is way too much for almost any gig under thousands of people. ESPECIALLY 100 watts of 4x12 cabinet. Get a combo, a 2x12 or something, 100 watts, 80 watts, 50 watts, whatever. Get a semi-cheapie (b-52, bugera, old mesa, etc.) and replace the speakers/tubes. You seriously dont want to deal with the whole, head, cabinet, travel thing. trust me, its not worth it. ANY gig you go to will handle a 2x12... if its too big, it will have a huge PA and mic's, then boom, you are set.
#11
Quote by LP Addict
half-stacks are for big-huge-bands for big-huge-gigs.

Half stacks are also for guys who wish they have a big-huge-schlong. 100 watts of tube is way too much for almost any gig under thousands of people. ESPECIALLY 100 watts of 4x12 cabinet. Get a combo, a 2x12 or something, 100 watts, 80 watts, 50 watts, whatever. Get a semi-cheapie (b-52, bugera, old mesa, etc.) and replace the speakers/tubes. You seriously dont want to deal with the whole, head, cabinet, travel thing. trust me, its not worth it. ANY gig you go to will handle a 2x12... if its too big, it will have a huge PA and mic's, then boom, you are set.


what if he has....lets say $2000...and the sound he wants will inly come out of a halfstack. whats wrong with that?
Get off this damn forum and play your damn guitar.
#12
Quote by LP Addict
half-stacks are for big-huge-bands for big-huge-gigs.

Half stacks are also for guys who wish they have a big-huge-schlong. 100 watts of tube is way too much for almost any gig under thousands of people. ESPECIALLY 100 watts of 4x12 cabinet. Get a combo, a 2x12 or something, 100 watts, 80 watts, 50 watts, whatever. Get a semi-cheapie (b-52, bugera, old mesa, etc.) and replace the speakers/tubes. You seriously dont want to deal with the whole, head, cabinet, travel thing. trust me, its not worth it. ANY gig you go to will handle a 2x12... if its too big, it will have a huge PA and mic's, then boom, you are set.



Some amps only come in 100 watt head forms, and a head + a 2x12 is far easier to transport than a 2x12 combo.
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#13
Quote by LP Addict
half-stacks are for big-huge-bands for big-huge-gigs.

Half stacks are also for guys who wish they have a big-huge-schlong. 100 watts of tube is way too much for almost any gig under thousands of people. ESPECIALLY 100 watts of 4x12 cabinet. Get a combo, a 2x12 or something, 100 watts, 80 watts, 50 watts, whatever. Get a semi-cheapie (b-52, bugera, old mesa, etc.) and replace the speakers/tubes. You seriously dont want to deal with the whole, head, cabinet, travel thing. trust me, its not worth it. ANY gig you go to will handle a 2x12... if its too big, it will have a huge PA and mic's, then boom, you are set.


Cheers for the input guys, and Im not trying to piss anybody off, but it seems like everybody's dodging the question (or maybe i didnt pose it correctly, and it is prolly my fault) but what im really trying to find out is if I will ruin the sound quality of the amp head if the wattage of the head is higher than that of the cabinet. (i.e. will it sound worse if its a 1x12 rather than a 4x12)
#14
Quote by STorpedo
Cheers for the input guys, and Im not trying to piss anybody off, but it seems like everybody's dodging the question (or maybe i didnt pose it correctly, and it is prolly my fault) but what im really trying to find out is if I will ruin the sound quality of the amp head if the wattage of the head is higher than that of the cabinet. (i.e. will it sound worse if its a 1x12 rather than a 4x12)


you'll likely ruin your speaker.

412 have more bass response. 212 are a pretty accepted comprmise
Get off this damn forum and play your damn guitar.
#15
Quote by stevo_epi_SG_wo
you'll likely ruin your speaker.

412 have more bass response. 212 are a pretty accepted comprmise


but it will sound the same right?

EDIT: let me emphasize; I can adjust for the lack of bass and so on, but the sound quality would be the same on a 212 and a 412?
#16
i dont see how a head and a cab is easier to transport than a combo, thats just retarded, but okay. I like 2x12 combos because you can hook it up to a 2x12/4x12 cabinet, and there you go, a "halfstack", if you just wanna go to your friends house to jam, there you go, you just have one thing to take that probably wont weigh 120 pounds and need two people to carry down stairs.

Yeah, you will likely ruin your speaker(s) if you run it that way, it could be immediate, it could take awile. also in my mesa/boogie handbook it says with tube amps, if you plug it into an incorrect impedance cabinet, it could blow all your tubes because of some scientific blahblahblah with output, and correct levels, etc.
#17
Quote by STorpedo
but it will sound the same right?


it wont sound at all it you knack your speaker.

cab style varies tone a fair bit really. open/closed backed makes a difference, and as mentioned, more speakers tends to make for more bottom end

EDIT: ^ my 210 combo (albeit a bass one) is a 2 man lift

a 212 halfstack is a 1 man lift for the head, and a lighter 1/2 man lift for the cab
Get off this damn forum and play your damn guitar.
Last edited by stevo_epi_SG_wo at May 11, 2008,
#18
Quote by stevo_epi_SG_wo
it wont sound at all it you knack your speaker.

cab style varies tone a fair bit really. open/closed backed makes a difference, and as mentioned, more speakers tends to make for more bottom end


ok seems like im not getting thru to ppl at all; FOR EXAMPLE: If i adjust for the bass, then connect the 150w head to a 75w 2x12, at HALF volume, will there be as much tone improvment (or gain for example) as there would be on a 4x12 at HALF volume, only it will be quieter? (The 2x12)

EDIT: Ok disregard all that, adjusted for bass, will a 2x12 sound exactly the same as a 4x12 only quieter? Even if the 2x12 is 75w and the head is 120w?
Last edited by STorpedo at May 11, 2008,
#19
Quote by LP Addict
i dont see how a head and a cab is easier to transport than a combo, thats just retarded, but okay. I like 2x12 combos because you can hook it up to a 2x12/4x12 cabinet, and there you go, a "halfstack", if you just wanna go to your friends house to jam, there you go, you just have one thing to take that probably wont weigh 120 pounds and need two people to carry down stairs.


You're forgetting that some combos weight a LOT. Like 40 kg. And that wouldn't be too tough to lift, except that often there's just one handle on top of the amp, making it pretty awkward to carry. Compare that to a 15-20kg 212 and a 15-20kg head you can carry separately, and then think which you'd prefer.

(ok, I pulled the weights out of my ass, my but the point still stands)

(also, I'm personally a combo guy, since you can usually get a better combo for the price of a stack)
Quote by Lunchbox362
This thread if fail in almost every way imaniganable.
#20
Quote by LP Addict
i dont see how a head and a cab is easier to transport than a combo, thats just retarded, but okay.


Have you ever tried to lift a 2x12?

Due to the size and weight it's a pain in the arse to carry on your own, if you have a separate head and cab it makes things a lot easier.
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#21
Quote by timi_hendrix
Have you ever tried to lift a 2x12?

Due to the size and weight it's a pain in the arse to carry on your own, if you have a separate head and cab it makes things a lot easier.


if its too heavy bend over and put it on your back, it should make carrying easier
#22
f*k this, people are bloody useless here, you ask them the same question 3 times they give you random information you dont need and then start talking about how much a halfstack weighs. Guess ill have to go talk to a sales representative.
#23
Quote by STorpedo
f*k this, people are bloody useless here, you ask them the same question 3 times they give you random information you dont need and then start talking about how much a halfstack weighs. Guess ill have to go talk to a sales representative.

Classic ain't it? But, you can get some really good info here.
#24
What's your question? Will an amp sound the same through a 2x12 as it would through a 4x12? If the cabs are of the same quality (where the 4x12 would probably cost more, if they are the same quality level), there would be pretty much no difference. It might sound a bit fuller due to more air moved, and will sound a bit louder but apart from that, I don't think there's really much difference.
Quote by Lunchbox362
This thread if fail in almost every way imaniganable.
#25
Quote by STorpedo
ok seems like im not getting thru to ppl at all; FOR EXAMPLE: If i adjust for the bass, then connect the 150w head to a 75w 2x12, at HALF volume, will there be as much tone improvment (or gain for example) as there would be on a 4x12 at HALF volume, only it will be quieter? (The 2x12)

EDIT: Ok disregard all that, adjusted for bass, will a 2x12 sound exactly the same as a 4x12 only quieter? Even if the 2x12 is 75w and the head is 120w?



A 2x12 is barely different than a 4x12. There is just slightly more air being pushed from a 4x12. It won't be louder or have more gain.

Also, if you turn a 120 watt amp up half way, it probably will blow those speakers since it will be putting out around 75 watts.
#26
well....the main difference between 412 and 212 is the bass. The 412 adds bass without making it sound too muddy, however the 212 will make it muddy if you add enough bass to sound close to 412. im pretty sure at least...

"The mind is its own place, and in itself

Can make a Heav'n of Hell, a Hell of Heav'n"

- John Milton, Paradise Lost
#27
Quote by metallicafan616
well....the main difference between 412 and 212 is the bass. The 412 adds bass without making it sound too muddy, however the 212 will make it muddy if you add enough bass to sound close to 412. im pretty sure at least...


I don't think the difference is that big - after you factor in that you can probably get a better quality 212 compared to a 412 (since you pay for half the speakers), the 412 might even be more muddy than the 212.
Quote by Lunchbox362
This thread if fail in almost every way imaniganable.
#28
If you have $2000 to blow and don't want a combo, I say go for it. I would get a 100w head and a 2X12 cab. As a matter of fact I did the same thing. I do not gig, I only started playing 6 months ago. I am a "bedroom jammer" too. I don't ever want to gig, this is a hobby for me.

And as for ppl saying stuff like this.

Quote by stevo_epi_SG_wo
if youre never going to crank it, its a waste of money


I disagree, unless you are talking about vintage amps. Everyone knows a tube amp will sound its best at high volume. To say it will sound like crap or its a waste of money, I disagree. I have a 100w tube head and it sounds awesome at a vol of .75, 1, 2, 3 and so on. Yes it sounds its best at around 6 or 7, but it is not a waste at all.

If you are looking at vintage amps then that might be more true. They will have really low gain until it is cranked. Anything you are going to buy new in a store is going to sound great at any volume, but will sound its best when it is cranked.

As for a lower wattage cab going to a higher wattage head. I have never tried it, so I don't want to mislead you. In my opinion which could be wrong, I would think it would not blow unless you pushed it passed its rated wattage. So if you have a 100w head and 50w 1X12 cab, you might be able to get close to the same sound as a 2X12 at low volume. I personally would never hook up a cab rated for less wattage then the amp. If you accidentally turn the volume up... BOOM. Plus the volume curve on tube amps is weird. A 100w tube head at a vol of 5 is putting out a lot more then 50w.

So I think if you don't want a combo, and have 2 g's to blow, get whatever makes you happy. I was almost in the same place as you. I do live in my own house though, so noise isn't a problem for me. I can drag my amp down to my basement anytime and turn it up. If you want a 100w tube head I say get it. I would make sure the cab you get will handle the wattage. I would recommend a 2X12 cab with it.

Everything I just stated is my personal opinion. Do what ever makes you happy, and sounds good to you.
#29
Quote by Fama
I don't think the difference is that big - after you factor in that you can probably get a better quality 212 compared to a 412 (since you pay for half the speakers), the 412 might even be more muddy than the 212.



goood point, didnt think about that...TS, keep that ^ in mind too

"The mind is its own place, and in itself

Can make a Heav'n of Hell, a Hell of Heav'n"

- John Milton, Paradise Lost
#30
Quote by STorpedo
if its too heavy bend over and put it on your back, it should make carrying easier








.......




I sincerely hope you're joking.
A dwarf might hear you. What then?

My Music
#31
Quote by STorpedo
if its too heavy bend over and put it on your back, it should make carrying easier


Get off this damn forum and play your damn guitar.
#32
Quote by STorpedo
if its too heavy bend over and put it on your back, it should make carrying easier



#33
If you want to buy a Half-stack buy one. Don't let these guys tell you what to do. Just think everything out and make your own decision.
#34
I love the way the threadstarter started arguing with me when I was arguing the case for heads and cabs in the first place.
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