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#1
This is something that's been eating at me for a few months, with the issue of Scottish independence coming up more and more often. And I wondered do you Scots actually want to be completely independent?

Is this a case of us Evil English oppressing you pure and decent Scots? Or is it another case of a loudmouthed minority making more noise than the majority that want to stay as a part of Britain?

If you do want independence, how well do you think you'll fare with it? I don't know how much of Scotland is paid for and helped out by the whole of the country, and if that's so, it's obviously a case of councils helping out their people better.

I don't want to make this a bitter debate about which country is better, I just want actual information and worthy opinions. Also, don't use Mel Gibson funded propaganda as fact here, any mention of Braveheart will get you banned - hopefully.
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#3
Some polls say a majority want it some polls say a minority want it.

The fact that the SNP are in power does not mean people neccesarily want independence, they are largely seen as 'the alternative to labour' for a people who are tired of voting labour and seeing nothing from it.

I don't know how we would fair as an independent country and the honest answer is that no one else does either. People who say 'Scoltand will be BETTER' or 'Scotland will FAIL' are both just forwarding their ideologies.

Especially labour and the SNP: Labour would do anything to keep scotland in the union and the SNP have a rather obvious bias

EDIT: Let it be know though: The SNP are WANKERS and Scottish labour are truly incompetent.
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Last edited by meh! at May 13, 2008,
#4
I think it's really stupid (although I'm not from Scotland), it's just another divide and they're hardly going to benefit from it.
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#5
It's been 301 years since Scotland co-founded the Union! I learnt that today

I think it would be nice if Scotland gained independance, America managed fine

Plus it's not like the uk is actually serving any more purpose including Scotland than not...
#6
Absolutly not, i've already posted an in length explaination of this on another thread so cant be arsed doing it again.
But hell no, the snp are f*cking idiots.
Edit: Put up a poll?
#7
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
It's been 301 years since Scotland co-founded the Union! I learnt that today

I think it would be nice if Scotland gained independance, America managed fine

Plus it's not like the uk is actually serving any more purpose including Scotland than not...



Except for North Sea Oil, a third of British armed forces and the vast amounts of skilled workers that go down to work in England
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#8
Is Scotland to the UK what Quebec is to Canada? Like an annoying teenager that threatens to run away but never does?
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#9
being scottish i would say pride is all thats doin it, i reckon scotland wouldnt do too great on its own..... at the moment ^_^
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#10
I wouldn't mind, but I don't know the advantages and disadvantages of it so I can't really say. I think Scottish should be seen as a language though rather than a dialect.
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#11
Quote by meh!
Except for North Sea Oil, a third of British armed forces and the vast amounts of skilled workers that go down to work in England



Well I was mainly thinking from a military perspective but yeah, shouldn't the need for a british army be obsolete anyway? it's not our war *grumble*


So if Scotland became independant they get more of the oil based on proximity! good for them, also they could choose not to draft soldiers into things they don't agree with rather than having people in London decide it all.

Although it would mean I would need a visa if I ever wanted to move there


Quote by cobain_is_king
I wouldn't mind, but I don't know the advantages and disadvantages of it so I can't really say. I think Scottish should be seen as a language though rather than a dialect.



But it IS a dialect!

unless you mean Goidelic, but how many people do you know who can speak that?
#12
Quote by cobain_is_king
I wouldn't mind, but I don't know the advantages and disadvantages of it so I can't really say. I think Scottish should be seen as a language though rather than a dialect.

But.... it isnt a language, its a butchered version of english.
#13
Quote by cobain_is_king
I wouldn't mind, but I don't know the advantages and disadvantages of it so I can't really say. I think Scottish should be seen as a language though rather than a dialect.
Well unless you all suddenly start talking Gaelic it is just a dialect. It's still the English language you're speaking, much like how there isn't an American language (minus a few odd spellings)
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#14
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
Well I was mainly thinking from a military perspective but yeah, shouldn't the need for a british army be obsolete anyway? it's not our war *grumble*


So if Scotland became independant they get more of the oil based on proximity! good for them, also they could choose not to draft soldiers into things they don't agree with rather than having people in London decide it all.

Although it would mean I would need a visa if I ever wanted to move there



I couldn't tell you the details, though apparently 90% of the oil is in Scottish waters.

meh, i'm not pro-independence my self. I am however against people who think taht Scotland is just being subsidised by the wonderful, ever-generous English (not you directly, obv)
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#15
Quote by meh!
I couldn't tell you the details, though apparently 90% of the oil is in Scottish waters.

meh, i'm not pro-independence my self. I am however against people who think taht Scotland is just being subsidised by the wonderful, ever-generous English (not you directly, obv)



I'm not even really English anyway >.>

I find it annoying when my accent is determined as 'Briddish', and it would be nice if Scottish and Welsh people got more recognition rather than being lumped into the assumption of being English or referred to as British, doesn't do much for one's national identity...
#16
Quote by alkalineweeman
But.... it isnt a language, its a butchered version of english.

Key word 'should be', didn't say it was. Butchered? That's your opinion. I'm just sick of having to speak in a way that seems unnatural to me, as many other Scots probably do.
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#18
Quote by cobain_is_king
Key word 'should be', didn't say it was. Butchered? That's your opinion. I'm just sick of having to speak in a way that seems unnatural to me, as many other Scots probably do.



Was anyone else taught not to roll their 'r's in school?
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#19
Quote by cobain_is_king
Key word 'should be', didn't say it was. Butchered? That's your opinion. I'm just sick of having to speak in a way that seems unnatural to me, as many other Scots probably do.
It's not a language! you're speaking in English, just in a colloquial dialect.
That was a rare post..

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#20
Quote by Pink_blood
It's not a language! you're speaking in English, just in a colloquial dialect.

lern2reed.
I didn't say it was a language, I said I wish Scottish was seen as a language itself, as in I wish it became a seperate language from English.
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#21
Why does England want Scotland is what we should be asking.

Personally, I don't care. England's ****ed up, and Scotland is too northern.
#22
Quote by cobain_is_king
Key word 'should be', didn't say it was. Butchered? That's your opinion. I'm just sick of having to speak in a way that seems unnatural to me, as many other Scots probably do.



To qualify as a language you have to be using different words. And you aren't, you're just pronouncing them differently. Shall I invent my own language because I was unnaturally taught not to glottalise my t's when it was how I spoke?

Scottish have their own Gaelic language, and people still speak Norse far up in the north apparently, though it's scattered, so if you want your own language you have plenty of others to pick from than English
#24
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
To qualify as a language you have to be using different words. And you aren't, you're just pronouncing them differently. Shall I invent my own language because I was unnaturally taught not to glottalise my t's when it was how I spoke?

Scottish have their own Gaelic language, and people still speak Norse far up in the north apparently, though it's scattered, so if you want your own language you have plenty of others to pick from than English



We use lots of different words

Not that i'm arguing for Cobain's point. ANd I think 'people still speak norse' is stretching it, up north there's still a frew norse words about, like the word for bridge and taht, people don't actually speak norse.
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#25
scotland becoming independent would have little real purpose as theyd most likely then join the Eu.....which would then render the borders pointless
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#26
Quote by mulletman500
Why does England want Scotland is what we should be asking.

Personally, I don't care. England's ****ed up, and Scotland is too northern.



Why does England and the union of Northern Ireland and Wales want scotland, is what you think you should be asking, I think you'll find
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#27
I think Scotland should become independant. Nobody up here feels "British" or really cares, except Rangers fans but thats another story.
#28
The UK in general is an absolute nightmare anyway, I don't know whether indepence would help or not.
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#29
Quote by meh!
Why does England and the union of Northern Ireland and Wales want scotland, is what you think you should be asking, I think you'll find


*agrees*
damn english...
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You have an atrocious sense of humour!

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You win 100 hilarity points.

Spend them wisely.


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#30
Quote by chimpinatux
scotland becoming independent would have little real purpose as theyd most likely then join the Eu.....which would then render the borders pointless

Exactly what I was thinking..
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#31
Quote by meh!
Some polls say a majority want it some polls say a minority want it.

The fact that the SNP are in power does not mean people neccesarily want independence, they are largely seen as 'the alternative to labour' for a people who are tired of voting labour and seeing nothing from it.

I don't know how we would fair as an independent country and the honest answer is that no one else does either. People who say 'Scoltand will be BETTER' or 'Scotland will FAIL' are both just forwarding their ideologies.

Especially labour and the SNP: Labour would do anything to keep scotland in the union and the SNP have a rather obvious bias

EDIT: Let it be know though: The SNP are WANKERS and Scottish labour are truly incompetent.


Thank you, that's the sort of answer what I was hoping for. I assumed that the Scots want independence because they voted in the SNP, but it does seem that it's purely due to Labour's incompetence.

I always knew the SNP are a bunch of wankers, I heard that they insist on playing Braveheart at their annual conferences, sorry I mentioned the scummy film.
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#32
Quote by meh!
We use lots of different words

Not that i'm arguing for Cobain's point. ANd I think 'people still speak norse' is stretching it, up north there's still a frew norse words about, like the word for bridge and taht, people don't actually speak norse.



There's this thing in my English book:

A north-eastern Scottish way of saying 'the children are playing in the street'

"The bairns are lakin out ont'street"

And the Swedish way:

"Barnen leuker ute pa gatan"

It's like... the same apart from pronouns!

But yeah I doubt there's anyone left who can speak full norse, shame really.
#33
I'm not too fussed about it.

We have our own national sports teams etc anyway.

As long as we don't end up worse off I'm fine with it. I just don't want the SNP to be in charge if it happens, not until they clean up their act and start doing their sums a bit better.
#34
Quote by GrEgUms1991
I think Scotland should become independant. Nobody up here feels "British" or really cares, except Rangers fans but thats another story.

Its not about "feeling british" its the whole economy of the country you need to think about, deffences, the fact that you're gonna need a passport to travel either up or down the border, the fact that people working on either side of the border will need to apply for work permits causing an even bigger strain on the economy, taxes will go up to pay for things being paid for from london, college fee's will be introduced, housing prices will go up.
#36
I'd like to see Scotland gain independance sometime in my lifetime, it was something I used to feel very passionate about. However, the time for it was in 1979, if we'd been decisive in the referendum then we would have (a) avoided the raping of our country by Thatcher (b) got a helluva lot more from North Sea Oil. I think if we're gonna become independant we have to stop sitting with our fingers up our arse and get off the fence. Either we become independant or not, simple as that.
#37
not sure if this is true but from what i've heard the scottish whiskey industry makes copious amounts of money which is given to the British treasury, meaning scotland sees a small percentage of it. with north sea oil and simpler things like red meat i think scotland has a chance to prosper independently, especially since we would hardly be closing our borders to the UK, leaving trade still open
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#38
Whenever I think of our independence I get this image of the land splitting and us sailing northwards
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#40
Quote by freedoms_stain
Fixed.


haha, yeh, i never said i hated them though

But the attitude is pretty poor up here for most things.
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