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#1
How many different variations of the minor pentatonic scale are there, I'm looking at the scale in A on ultimate guitar and then some guy on youtube, UG's in A starts on the third fret, the guy's on youtube starts on the 5th whats goin on?
#3
start on the 5th fret.
5 6 7 8
| x | | | x |
| x | | | x |
| x | | x | |
| x | | x | |
| x | | x | |
| x | | | x |

thats the fingering if you need it
#5
The scale starts on the 5th fret of the sixth string in standard tuning..

I know basically zilch about theory and I know that, come on..
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#6
There are, I think 5 main variations of minor pentatonic. I could be wrong though.

Basically the one on Ug is probably starting on an A note other then 6th string 5th fret.
#7
Quote by Op3nTheJar
How many different variations of the minor pentatonic scale are there, I'm looking at the scale in A on ultimate guitar and then some guy on youtube, UG's in A starts on the third fret, the guy's on youtube starts on the 5th whats goin on?

There's not really any variations, there's one scale....if you think of it in terms of the notes and not positions you'll understand things a lot quicker.

A minor pentatonic consists of these 5 notes

A C D E G

That's all.

What you need to do is learn the notes on the fretboard, then you can see all the places those notes occur.
Actually called Mark!

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#8
Are you sure the UG scale is Am Pentatonic?

Gm would start on G (obviously) but if the youtube video players guitar is not tuned to standard then looking where he plays won't help you much...


e--------
B--------
G--------
D-----5-7
A---3-5-7
E-----5---


The above is an example of Am Pentatonic.

HTH
#9
God I wish i could do like a video conference or something,

e-|--|--|3-|--|5-|--|--|8-|--|10|--|12|--|--|15|--|17|--|--|20|--|22|--|--|
B-|--|--|3-|--|5-|--|--|8-|--|10|--|--|13|--|15|--|17|--|--|20|--|22|--|--|
G-|--|2-|--|--|5-|--|7-|--|9-|--|--|12|--|14|--|--|17|--|19|--|21|--|--|--|
D-|--|2-|--|--|5-|--|7-|--|--|10|--|12|--|14|--|--|17|--|19|--|--|22|--|--|
A-|--|--|3-|--|5-|--|7-|--|--|10|--|12|--|--|15|--|17|--|19|--|--|22|--|--|
E-|--|--|3-|--|5-|--|--|8-|--|10|--|12|--|--|15|--|17|--|--|20|--|22|--|--|

THATS the Am Penta from UG, do you see where the first note, a G! starts on the 3RD! fret? Not The 5TH!
#13
The extended Am penta scale starts at the 3rd fret. But the box Am penta starts on the 5th. Maybe thats where your confusion is.
#14
Quote by Op3nTheJar
God I wish i could do like a video conference or something,

e-|--|--|3-|--|5-|--|--|8-|--|10|--|12|--|--|15|--|17|--|--|20|--|22|--|--|
B-|--|--|3-|--|5-|--|--|8-|--|10|--|--|13|--|15|--|17|--|--|20|--|22|--|--|
G-|--|2-|--|--|5-|--|7-|--|9-|--|--|12|--|14|--|--|17|--|19|--|21|--|--|--|
D-|--|2-|--|--|5-|--|7-|--|--|10|--|12|--|14|--|--|17|--|19|--|--|22|--|--|
A-|--|--|3-|--|5-|--|7-|--|--|10|--|12|--|--|15|--|17|--|19|--|--|22|--|--|
E-|--|--|3-|--|5-|--|--|8-|--|10|--|12|--|--|15|--|17|--|--|20|--|22|--|--|

THATS the Am Penta from UG, do you see where the first note, a G! starts on the 3RD! fret? Not The 5TH!


Once again, the Am pentatonic scale is comprised solely of the notes

A C D E G
Actually called Mark!

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#15
Quote by :-D
G is still in the A minor pentatonic scale. It doesn't have to begin on the root.


Dont wanna be a dick, but...modes.
/thread.
#16
I need somewhere to start though. god this is so confusing, i was fine with the Am penta on UG but people keep telling me that the first position of the Am penta begins in the fifth fret A, and not G like the scale on UG.
#17
Quote by Op3nTheJar
I need somewhere to start though. god this is so confusing, i was fine with the Am penta on UG but people keep telling me that the first position of the Am penta begins in the fifth fret A, and not G like the scale on UG.


I'm almost positive that Am pentatonic is just the Dorian scale of the Gm pentatonic, meaning that it's the same scale, but it starts on the the 2nd note of the G major scale instead of the 1st

I strongly suggest getting a music teacher for this though, as it's really confusing without one. Band teachers at your school are usually willing to help with this
#18
@Op3nTheJar

Like GoDrex said, the UG Scale isn't starting anywhere it's just showing you all the notes on the neck that are in Am Pentatonic. If you want to start on the root (A) that's fine and normal. If you want to start on any other note of the Scale (C, D, E, G) that's ok too.

Just be aware that when people refer to Am Pentatonic Scale they will 99% of the time mean A-C-D-E-G and probably in that order.
[Put that 1% in there because some people know too much theory ]
#19
Quote by zeppelinfreak51
Dont wanna be a dick, but...modes.
/thread.

You're not being a dick, just irrelevant - this has absolutely nothing to do with modes.
Quote by zombie_monster
I'm almost positive that Am pentatonic is just the Dorian scale of the Gm pentatonic, meaning that it's the same scale, but it starts on the the 2nd note of the G major scale instead of the 1st

I strongly suggest getting a music teacher for this though, as it's really confusing without one. Band teachers at your school are usually willing to help with this

Same goes for you, this has nothing whatsoever to do with modes. More to the point, you don't apear to understand modes so it's best not to try to give advice on them.

Quote by Op3nTheJar
I need somewhere to start though. god this is so confusing, i was fine with the Am penta on UG but people keep telling me that the first position of the Am penta begins in the fifth fret A, and not G like the scale on UG.

You don't need somewhere to start at all - if you want to use the Am pentatonic scale then you can use any of those notes, in any order over an Am progression and you're playing in Am pentatonic.

Am pentatonic doesn't "start" anywhere, it's just the notes A C D E G and they appear many times all over the fretboard. You need to learn the notes on the fretboard before learning scales, and you should really learn the major scale before learning any other scales as it's going to be your main point of reference for everything.
Actually called Mark!

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Last edited by steven seagull at May 18, 2008,
#20
Quote by steven seagull
You don't need somewhere to start at all - if you want to use the Am pentatonic scale then you can use any of those notes, in any order over an Am progression and you're playing in Am pentatonic.


As usual, Steven is spot on

Chris
#21
Quote by steven seagull
You're not being a dick, just irrelevant - this has absolutely nothing to do with modes.

Same goes for you, this has nothing whatsoever to do with modes. More to the point, you don't apear to understand modes so it's best not to try to give advice on them.


You don't need somewhere to start at all - if you want to use the Am pentatonic scale then you can use any of those notes, in any order over an Am progression and you're playing in Am pentatonic.

Am pentatonic doesn't "start" anywhere, it's just the notes A C D E G and they appear many times all over the fretboard. You need to learn the notes on the fretboard before learning scales, and you should really learn the major scale before learning any other scales as it's going to be your main point of reference for everything.



Where you start is what defines a mode...thats how they came about, therefore the bringing up modes to :-D was relevant because he made the statement that A pentatonic minor is A pentatonic even if you start on G. But its not. Thats like saying the C maj scale is the C maj scale even if you start on D. But its not. Its D dorian.
#22
Quote by zeppelinfreak51
Where you start is what defines a mode...thats how they came about, therefore the bringing up modes to :-D was relevant because he made the statement that A pentatonic minor is A pentatonic even if you start on G. But its not. Thats like saying the C maj scale is the C maj scale even if you start on D. But its not. Its D dorian.

Actually that's not how you define a mode at all - a mode is defined by it's characteristic intervals and the underlying tonality. What :-D said was absolutely correct, it's still Am pentatonic even if you start on G.
Actually called Mark!

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#23
Quote by steven seagull
Once again, the Am pentatonic scale is comprised solely of the notes

A C D E G


Its a predictable bastard, isn't it?
#24
Quote by Tallman
Its a predictable bastard, isn't it?


LOL!

I found Dave Weiner's (guitarist with the Steve Vai band) series on Modes to be the most easy to understand explaination I have found to date. Check it out...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8hyWfB0KTI

He will also answer questions if you have them .

Chris
#25
Quote by zeppelinfreak51
Where you start is what defines a mode...thats how they came about, therefore the bringing up modes to :-D was relevant because he made the statement that A pentatonic minor is A pentatonic even if you start on G. But its not. Thats like saying the C maj scale is the C maj scale even if you start on D. But its not. Its D dorian.

Dear God, this is a case of you just misunderstanding everything. If you read my posts in MT, you'll see that I know enough not to say that. If you're playing over A minor and playing the notes from the A minor scale, you're playing A minor. It doesn't matter what note you start on at that point.

The harmonic context is what's going to define which mode you're in, not the note you begin on. If I'm playing over an Am progression or a static A minor and playing a lick that goes C D A E G, I'm playing A minor. If you're telling me that I'm playing C Ionian in that case just because I'm beginning on C, you're wrong. You need to stop pretending that you have an understanding of modes.
#26
Quote by steven seagull
You're not being a dick, just irrelevant - this has absolutely nothing to do with modes.

Same goes for you, this has nothing whatsoever to do with modes. More to the point, you don't apear to understand modes so it's best not to try to give advice on them.


You don't need somewhere to start at all - if you want to use the Am pentatonic scale then you can use any of those notes, in any order over an Am progression and you're playing in Am pentatonic.

Am pentatonic doesn't "start" anywhere, it's just the notes A C D E G and they appear many times all over the fretboard. You need to learn the notes on the fretboard before learning scales, and you should really learn the major scale before learning any other scales as it's going to be your main point of reference for everything.


Wait, so modes aren't affiliated with pentatonic scales?
#27
Quote by zombie_monster
Wait, so modes aren't affiliated with pentatonic scales?


Modes are only relevant when you have a underlying tonality.

As such, in this case, where we are talking about the scale and not the context in which its used, they have no relevance.
#28
Quote by Tallman
Modes are only relevant when you have a underlying tonality.

As such, in this case, where we are talking about the scale and not the context in which its used, they have no relevance.


Alright.

So what is the firm answer for the TS's question? (I'm interested now)
#29
Quote by zombie_monster
Alright.

So what is the firm answer for the TS's question? (I'm interested now)

There are a zillion different shapes and positions you can play, but the pentatonic scale is one scale: in A minor, if you play simply the notes A C D E G you're playing the A minor pentatonic scale. It's just one scale.
#32
Quote by :-D
Dear God, this is a case of you just misunderstanding everything. If you read my posts in MT, you'll see that I know enough not to say that. If you're playing over A minor and playing the notes from the A minor scale, you're playing A minor. It doesn't matter what note you start on at that point.

The harmonic context is what's going to define which mode you're in, not the note you begin on. If I'm playing over an Am progression or a static A minor and playing a lick that goes C D A E G, I'm playing A minor. If you're telling me that I'm playing C Ionian in that case just because I'm beginning on C, you're wrong. You need to stop pretending that you have an understanding of modes.


Okay, modes are based on intervals. The scale G A C D E G has different intervals then
A C D E G.
#33
Quote by zeppelinfreak51
Okay, modes are based on intervals. The scale G A C D E G has different intervals then
A C D E G.


G A C D E G isn't a scale.
Actually called Mark!

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#34
Quote by steven seagull
G A C D E G isn't a scale.


Says who?

EDIT: C major wasnt a scale until someone started playing the collection of notes in that order. So I dont see how this collection of notes constitutes any less of a scale the C major.
#35
Yea the TS is asking more about the shape than the exact scale. I think I see what hes asking he sees on one of the lessons on UG that Am is at the 3rd fret and he sees a video with some guy playing it at the 5th fret. The box penta pattern we all know and love in Am in standard tuning is at 5th fret.
|---8---5---|
|---8---5---|
|---7---5---|
|---7---5---|
|---7---5---|
|---8---5---|
But one of the other box patterns is at 3rd fret and would still be Am penta.
|---5---3---|
|---5---3---|
|---5---2---|
|---5---2---|
|---5---3---|
|---5---3---|
And then theres extended which is part of both boxes. Or one of the extended Ive seen it done so many ways.
|---12--10--8----------------------------|
|--------10--8----------------------------|
|-----------9---7---5---------------------|
|----------------7---5---------------------|
|----------------7---5---3----------------|
|---------------------5---3----------------|
All still Am penta, of course drop tuning moves things a little. Dont know if this will help TS or not. Never heard of a mode used with penta always see it used with major/minor or 7 note scales. My knowledge of scales is not as extensive as some. I just know I drove my self crazy with it for a while to.
#36
Quote by zeppelinfreak51
Okay, modes are based on intervals. The scale G A C D E G has different intervals then
A C D E G.

Based on intervals from a specific tonal center, like any scale. If you play any of that over Am, it's not going to sound like G Mixolydian even though you start on G.
#37
Quote by :-D
Based on intervals from a specific tonal center, like any scale. If you play any of that over Am, it's not going to sound like G Mixolydian even though you start on G.


No one said TS was playing over any chords though.
#38
Quote by zeppelinfreak51
No one said TS was playing over any chords though.

Which is exactly the reason why the modes did not need to be brought into this, which you did.
#39
Quote by :-D
Which is exactly the reason why the modes did not need to be brought into this, which you did.


You stated that no mater what note you start on its still an A minor scale. But its not, because starting on a different note gives you different intervals.

The same way D dorian =/= C major, G A C D E =/= A C D E G
#40
^ It doesnt matter what you start from.

It matters what your playing OVER.
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