#1
ok so i understand the pitch axis theory, but i need some clarification on something.

if i'm in the key of C, and my chords are Cmaj7 and Dmin7, when i start playing the Dmin7, is the chord forcing me to change to the Dorian mode, or can i stick to the Major scale and let the chord define the mode?
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Pffffffft schematics


Although i guess the OP will have to get used to reading them if he's going to buy a bugera..
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along with fire escape routes...

#2
You can follow each chord with Ionian and Dorian, which will bring out the 'flavour' of each chord.

You can also just play C major over the top, letting the chords change underneath

Both are good
My name is Andy
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Counting bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drums
#3
Quote by aradine
ok so i understand the pitch axis theory, but i need some clarification on something.

if i'm in the key of C, and my chords are Cmaj7 and Dmin7, when i start playing the Dmin7, is the chord forcing me to change to the Dorian mode, or can i stick to the Major scale and let the chord define the mode?


If you're in the key of C major, you play C major. The progression is not modal at all, and has nothing to do with pitch axis.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#5
Pitch Axis requires no link. It's very simple.


It means that you can swing between D Major, D Minor, D Phrygian, D Mixolydian, etc with great ease. For instance, my favorite progression, D A Bm G D A G Gm uses pitch axis theory since the Gm chord comes from the Dm scale (among other things). Another example is playing D Bb C; the Bb and C come from the Dm scale.
#6
Pitch axis refers to the practice of switching between parallel scales and modes over a static root.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#7
Just think about it in terms of simple definitions; your axis, which things revolve around, will obviously remain constant or else it's not an axis. It's what you do on top of that that changes and gives color to the progression. Listen to Satriani's "Not of This Earth" for an example.
#8
Quote by bangoodcharlote
Pitch Axis requires no link. It's very simple.


It means that you can swing between D Major, D Minor, D Phrygian, D Mixolydian, etc with great ease. For instance, my favorite progression, D A Bm G D A G Gm uses pitch axis theory since the Gm chord comes from the Dm scale (among other things). Another example is playing D Bb C; the Bb and C come from the Dm scale.
Part of pitch axis theory is to make the changes subtle. Going from D ionian, to D mixolydian, to D dorian, to D aeolian to D phrygian would give a more subtle change. Thats because only one intervals is being changed at one time.
#9
You can use what ever mode.

The less notes you have in the chords, the more flexiable it'll be.

You can leave out the 3rd or b3rd note of a chords...this way it won't
define it as major or minor.

You can change mode or scale in the midle or during a mode
#10
Quote by Ordinary
You can use what ever mode.

The less notes you have in the chords, the more flexiable it'll be.

You can leave out the 3rd or b3rd note of a chords...this way it won't
define it as major or minor.

You can change mode or scale in the midle or during a mode

Dont ever omit the 3rd degree, unless its like punk or something, but thats a powerchord and powerchords arent really chords (they're dyads). The more notes in the chords, the less work you'll have to do to achieve that certain sound. For example, playing X7 chords means you wont have to hit a minor seventh over that chord to achieve that sound. And no you cant use what ever mode, minor modes over major chords generally sound horrible and vica versa.
Quote by Ordinary
You can change mode or scale in the midle or during a mode
I so wish the lul wat pear wasnt banned...
#11
ok thanks.
Quote by coolstoryangus
Pffffffft schematics


Although i guess the OP will have to get used to reading them if he's going to buy a bugera..
Quote by gregs1020


along with fire escape routes...

#12
why not ?

why would it sound like punk ?...especailly if you're playing veriouse
scales or modes ?
And even if it was punk...what would be wrong with that.
Some Jazz player leave out notes from chords all the time.

strike a chord and just do it...it's not rocket sceince.
Unless there's ghost standing over your shoulders.lol

What the heck...you think you're doing when you
lower the 7th of the ionian or raising the 4th of the ionian..to begin with ?
#13
i think the reference to punk was a joke.....
Quote by coolstoryangus
Pffffffft schematics


Although i guess the OP will have to get used to reading them if he's going to buy a bugera..
Quote by gregs1020


along with fire escape routes...

#14
Quote by Ordinary
why not ?
Because the third is an essential note of the chord. It's by far the most important.
Quote by Ordinary
why would it sound like punk ?...
I didnt say it would, I just said the pseudo chords used in punk dont use the third degree.
Quote by Ordinary
especailly if you're playing veriouse scales or modes ?
Care to enlighten me on what "veriouse scales or modes" are?
Quote by Ordinary
And even if it was punk...what would be wrong with that.
Punk is almost purely diatonic, it wouldnt really be punk if you applied pitch axis theory.
Quote by Ordinary
Some Jazz player leave out notes from chords all the time.
ALL jazz players leave out notes from chords. But never the third or the seventh.
Quote by Ordinary
strike a chord and just do it...it's not rocket sceince.
Theres more to music than just "striking a chord." Music is an artform, saying that striking a chord is all there is to music, would be like saying putting paint on canvas is all there is to being a painter.
Quote by Ordinary
Unless there's ghost standing over your shoulders.lol
lul wat? that really takes me back to my days spent in delirium and hallucinations...
Quote by Ordinary
What the heck...you think you're doing when you
lower the 7th of the ionian or raising the 4th of the ionian..to begin with ?
Modulating, if I understand you correctly?

Grammar, Mr Ordinary. Learn to use it.
#15
Quote by Ordinary
why not ?

why would it sound like punk ?...especailly if you're playing veriouse
scales or modes ?
And even if it was punk...what would be wrong with that.
Some Jazz player leave out notes from chords all the time.

strike a chord and just do it...it's not rocket sceince.
Unless there's ghost standing over your shoulders.lol

What the heck...you think you're doing when you
lower the 7th of the ionian or raising the 4th of the ionian..to begin with ?


Don't worry about it he's just talking out of his arse. You can use a power chord as your axis if you like, and it does indeed allow you to switch between major and minor modes if you want to. And power chords certainly aren't restricted to punk music. There are plenty of times that they're appropriate.
#16
probably....I guess if you play Amin penta accending then add 2 note
decending to blues,dorian, phyrgian or aeolian... it wouldn't be changing modes
while you're in a middle of a mode or scale.

Music is in motion.
Last edited by Ordinary at May 17, 2008,
#17
^I would pay money for someone to translate that into sensical english
Quote by Eirien
Don't worry about it he's just talking out of his arse. You can use a power chord as your axis if you like,
When did I say you couldnt use powerchords? I said you shouldnt omit the third from chords, but I never said you shouldnt use powerchords as your axis. It wouldnt sound too nice, but hey, music is subjective.
Quote by Eirien
And power chords certainly aren't restricted to punk music. There are plenty of times that they're appropriate.
I just used punk music as an example, I could have said pop-rock, metal, surfy rock...
Last edited by demonofthenight at May 17, 2008,
#18
demon, it's a very common convention to leave the 3 out of an X11 chord. Just thought I'd point out the exception, but you're right about never leaving the 3 out in other circumstances.
known as Jeff when it really matters
#19
Quote by titopuente
demon, it's a very common convention to leave the 3 out of an X11 chord. Just thought I'd point out the exception, but you're right about never leaving the 3 out in other circumstances.


An 11 would generally be used in place of a dominant chord, the whole point of which is the tritone between the 3rd and b7th. It would certainly be common to omit the 9th, but saying that the third is commonly omitted is just wrong.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#21
Quote by Ordinary
good god... more BS arguments...translated to...stop being a dickhead


Why haven't you been banned yet?
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#22
Quote by archeo
the bit about the 3rd
I think the reason it is done is to avoid the 3rd/11th semitone.

If you omit the 11, you just get a _9 chord, so there is no other option than to omit the 3rd. (unless you want the clash)

Thats not really true, there is another option, which is to voice the chord intuitively... although the semitone will still be there, it may not sound bad in different octaves.
#23
Quote by branny1982
I think the reason it is done is to avoid the 3rd/11th semitone.

If you omit the 11, you just get a _9 chord, so there is no other option than to omit the 3rd. (unless you want the clash)

Thats not really true, there is another option, which is to voice the chord intuitively... although the semitone will still be there, it may not sound bad in different octaves.


Complaining about dissonance in a dominant chord = teh gayness
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#25
Switch to clean and pluck the root and octive for a jazzy day.

Stomp on the stomper...and alternate pick between the root
and pinch harmonic the octive on s stormy day

Leave the 2b ,7, and everything else in between out.lol
#26
Quote by Ordinary
Switch to clean and pluck the root and octive for a jazzy day.

Stomp on the stomper...and alternate pick between the root
and pinch harmonic the octive on s stormy day

Leave the 2b ,7, and everything else in between out.lol
Okay, now your being an idiot on purpose. No-one could write something that irrelevant and confusing without being a troll.
#28
Quote by Archeo Avis
An 11 would generally be used in place of a dominant chord, the whole point of which is the tritone between the 3rd and b7th. It would certainly be common to omit the 9th, but saying that the third is commonly omitted is just wrong.

Then tell me why this:

e-----------
B---3-------
G---4-------
D---5-------
A-----------
E---5-------
is such a common voicing for A11, even though it would be more correctly named G/A. You're talking about the dictionary definition of the chord; I'm talking about implying the chord.
known as Jeff when it really matters
#30
I'm bumping this thread for a valid question that may bring this thread back on topic (hopefully):

I play E major, G major, then A major, all normal bar chords. Is that essentially pitch axis? If so, can someone explain exactly what the mode change is? If it can be various changes, what would be the most basic explanation?

If this is not pitch axis because there's no static note, then assume you're playing the top E open and the rest of the bar chord is the same. Also, one more question about the 3rd notes. Is the 3rd note more important than the root note of the chord? Like say you play an E major without the E notes, then is it still essentially an E chord because you are playing a G# and B note together? You can't really determine if it's an E chord with the E omitted or a G# major with the 5th note omitted. I'm sure it qualifies for some minor chords but I'm too lazy to keep analyzing this. I'm pretty bad at theory by the way.
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#32
Can you explain why it's considered a blues progression?

(edit):Also, I know you said it's pointless to analyze it as pitch axis, but does it technically fit the definition of it?

Obviously it doesn't fit any normal scale if there are G, G# and A notes within the progression. So I know it's a fairly basic progression, that's why I wanted to ask about it, cuz I'm really bad at understanding this.
GANGSTAAAAAAS!

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Last edited by Third3ye at May 24, 2008,
#33
Quote by Third3ye
Can you explain why it's considered a blues progression?
Use of the minor third in a major key is very common in blues. That's why you use the Em pentatonic over a Blues in E. I bIII IV is a common bluesy progression as well.

To answer your edit: Sure, but you're overthinking it. It's a bluesy progression in E.
#34
Quote by Ordinary
Switch to clean and pluck the root and octive for a jazzy day.

Stomp on the stomper...and alternate pick between the root
and pinch harmonic the octive on s stormy day

Leave the 2b ,7, and everything else in between out.lol
Good God, what the hell are you talking about?

Anyways, TS, remember that pitch axis theory deals with parallel modes and scales. If the root of your chord changes, some other form of analysis is generally more useful than pitch axis.
Last edited by grampastumpy at May 24, 2008,
#35
ok for the other people who asked questions about pitch axis, this is basically what it is.

my chord progression is (random chords chosen).

E Major 7
E Minor 6
E Minor 9

when i play the E Major 7, i can use the E Major Scale. when i hit the E Minor 6 chord i will then play the E Dorian Mode. E Minor 9 i would then go to E Aeolian mode (E Natural Minor).

basically the pitch axis theory is based on using chords to swap to parallel modes.

(note: that chord progression was totally random, it might not actually work well)

here's a little reading on the pitch axis theory - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitch_Axis_Theory
Quote by coolstoryangus
Pffffffft schematics


Although i guess the OP will have to get used to reading them if he's going to buy a bugera..
Quote by gregs1020


along with fire escape routes...