#1
Basically what the title says. I'm not sure whether to get a 2 x 12 cabinet or a 4 x 12 cabinet.

I will be getting an Avatar either way, as the reviews I hear are amazing, and the price seems to be right.

What would I need the cab for? Recording, home play (though I do have a small practice amp for home, but if the parents are out and I can crank it...then...), and for gigs.

Now, the 2 x 12 is somewhat cheaper and is probably around 5/8ths of the weight of the 4 x 12, but obviously is not as loud.

I'm not really sure what else to ask, as these seem to be the only relevant factors.

Thanks in advance mates.
Blackstar HT-5

Agile AL-2000 with Chrome Hardware
#2
2x12 and 4x12 will be the same volume.

4x12 will have more bass and will push more air, but won't be louder.
#3
The 212 would be my choice. It's loud enough to do most gigs (provided you have a good head) and it can be moved around easier when gigging. i've found that trying to fit a 412 into my car requires calculus
Out here you've gotta know where your towel is!
#4
412 would be about 3dB louder, which is equivalent to doubling the wattage of the amp, and will seem 'bigger' and a bit fatter.

But for me, 212, saves space, money and a hell of a lot of weight, and is much more convenient.
The Laney Thread are big and clever. No exceptions.
#5
Quote by MrCarrot
412 would be about 3dB louder, which is equivalent to doubling the wattage of the amp, and will seem 'bigger' and a bit fatter.

But for me, 212, saves space, money and a hell of a lot of weight, and is much more convenient.



where do you come up with that statistic? its not going to make anything louder at all...and how can you say +3dB is doubling is the same as doubling the wattage of an amp? this sounds like a load of bupkus to me, man...
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#6
Quote by MrCarrot
412 would be about 3dB louder, which is equivalent to doubling the wattage of the amp, and will seem 'bigger' and a bit fatter.

.


No just no lol. It will make your sound spread better and more evenley to the crowd.
#7
Quote by Crabs111
No just no lol. It will make your sound spread better and more evenley to the crowd.


Quote by htsktim91989
where do you come up with that statistic? its not going to make anything louder at all...and how can you say +3dB is doubling is the same as doubling the wattage of an amp? this sounds like a load of bupkus to me, man...

both you guys are wrong. Doubling the surface area of the speakers adds +3dB, the same amount as doubling the amps wattage thru the same speaker, assuming everything else is equal. The human ear perceives approx +10dB as "double" the volume, which takes a factor of 10x the wattage.
"The fool doth think he is wise, but the wiseman knows himself to be a fool." - W.S.
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#8
Quote by Erock503
both you guys are wrong. Doubling the surface area of the speakers adds +3dB, the same amount as doubling the amps wattage thru the same speaker, assuming everything else is equal. The human ear perceives approx +10dB as "double" the volume, which takes a factor of 10x the wattage.
Thank you.

I don't appreciate it when people tell me i'm wrong, so it's nice to have support when I am right

The Laney Thread are big and clever. No exceptions.
#9
Quote by MrCarrot
Thank you.

I don't appreciate it when people tell me i'm wrong, so it's nice to have support when I am right


no problem man, it's nice to see there are still people here that actually know what they're talking about.

"The fool doth think he is wise, but the wiseman knows himself to be a fool." - W.S.
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#10
McCarrot is also right in the statement about wattage. Doubling the wattage may give you more headroom, but will only make an amp about 3dB louder.
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#11
well, for a gig, strictly speaking, a 4 x 12 would be a better option as it "spreads" the sound out better?
Blackstar HT-5

Agile AL-2000 with Chrome Hardware
#12
Quote by MrCarrot
Thank you.

I don't appreciate it when people tell me i'm wrong, so it's nice to have support when I am right


Holy hell, you changed your avatar.

What's the world coming to?
#13
Quote by Erock503
both you guys are wrong. Doubling the surface area of the speakers adds +3dB, the same amount as doubling the amps wattage thru the same speaker, assuming everything else is equal. The human ear perceives approx +10dB as "double" the volume, which takes a factor of 10x the wattage.



I did not know this, and I'm not calling BS because I really didn't know. Where did you learn this? It just seems odd to me because I've heard that being really close to a car alarm is +100dB so +3 dB doesn't seem like a lot to me. Once again, I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm admitting my ignorance. i just think for me and the good of this thread, if you could spell it out a little more, it may help those of us who don't know understand better.
Out here you've gotta know where your towel is!
#15
Quote by ValoRhoads
I did not know this, and I'm not calling BS because I really didn't know. Where did you learn this? It just seems odd to me because I've heard that being really close to a car alarm is +100dB so +3 dB doesn't seem like a lot to me. Once again, I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm admitting my ignorance. i just think for me and the good of this thread, if you could spell it out a little more, it may help those of us who don't know understand better.

you can look it up in physics manuals, hi fi/car audio sites, speaker info sites, etc... Wiki probably even has info on it. There are disagreements over the exact numbers, but they are all relatively close.

+3dB is not a lot, you are correct. It's basically the lowest amount the human ear can still perceive as a difference in volume. +10dB is normally agreed upon as the SPL for the ear to perceive a doubling of volume. You are also talking on a log scale relative to eachother, so if the car alarm was at 100dB, it would need to hit 110dB to be perceived as twice as loud.

for reference to your example, consider a jet plane at 100 meters has an approximate SPL of 110 – 140 dB
"The fool doth think he is wise, but the wiseman knows himself to be a fool." - W.S.
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Last edited by Erock503 at May 20, 2008,
#16
This thread got a little technical, but the bottom line is that I can't come up with one good reason for the threadstarter to get a 4x12.

I wouldn't get an Avatar larger than a 2x12, anyway. They're nice cabs and all, but theu're still budget cabs. Get a 2x12 from them, and then in the future when you decide you have to have a halfstack, go for something higher quality.
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#17
I'd go with the 4x12. It will give you a bigger more even sound.
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#18
If you have the room, the money, and physically are able to deal with a 4x12, IMO 4x12's are much better.

More bass response, better bass headroom, in a micing situation you have 2 more speakers to test for a better sound (no 2 V30's are alike guys) and an overall thicker sound. That being said, a Mesa 2x12 will walk all over an Avatar 4x12. Make sure you have an idea of a good money/quality: size/no. of speakers ratio. A good 2x12 will be better than a cheap 4x12, avatars sound nice but they just don't hold up in the long run.
Major of 7 String Legion 7 > 6

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#19
Quote by MESAexplorer
If you have the room, the money, and physically are able to deal with a 4x12, IMO 4x12's are much better.

More bass response, better bass headroom, in a micing situation you have 2 more speakers to test for a better sound (no 2 V30's are alike guys) and an overall thicker sound. That being said, a Mesa 2x12 will walk all over an Avatar 4x12. Make sure you have an idea of a good money/quality: size/no. of speakers ratio. A good 2x12 will be better than a cheap 4x12, avatars sound nice but they just don't hold up in the long run.

+1
#20
Well now this completely makes me want to redecide what i'm doing, as the whole reason I was going for an Avatar was because I heard it would not need replacement in the long run. I'm living with my parents for the next couple of years at least, but when I move out I hope to have most of the gear I want as money will be short for the beginning, hence me wanting to get the final cab I planned on getting now, as opposed to later.

I'm willing to spend a damn good amount on a good cab as I'm not the only one paying for it, me and my friend are working together to get both of our gear up to date before a certain time stamp (don't attempt to talk me out of this :P).

I'm set on getting a good cab to stick with essentially forever. If not Avatar, then who?
Blackstar HT-5

Agile AL-2000 with Chrome Hardware
#21
Quote by CrushedCan


I'm set on getting a good cab to stick with essentially forever. If not Avatar, then who?



IMO, buy cabs from a cab maker, not an amp builder.

Port City
Tone Tubby
Ear Candy
Stone Age
Mills Acoustics
Vader


Those will be the best bets for insane tone, reliability, and quality.

larger brand, yet good alternatives, can be found at better used prices
Mesa Boogie --- monster low end on recto cabs, roadking cabs are much better, standard cabs are quite nice as well.
Orange ---- Well Rounded tone
B-52 --- the higher end cabinets are built of 13ply birch! and cheap!)
Randall
Genz-Benz --- Phenominal low end response
Custom Audio Amplification (Suhr)
Diezel
Splawn ---- Best bang for buck!
Cornford ---- Found a 2x12 with flight case at pawn shop for $360. You might have the same luck.
Soldano
VHT ---- Big Bottom cabs are well known for thick tone
Major of 7 String Legion 7 > 6

Carvin DC747
Ibanez RG2228
Schecter Avenger Custom Shop
and my baby....
Gibson Explorer Studio
#22
Quote by MESAexplorer
IMO, buy cabs from a cab maker, not an amp builder.

Port City
Tone Tubby
Ear Candy
Stone Age
Mills Acoustics
Vader


Those will be the best bets for insane tone, reliability, and quality.

+1, if you are looking for a cab to keep long term. They specialize in only cabs, so all their time and resources go into making the best cabs available.



larger brand, yet good alternatives, can be found at better used prices
Mesa Boogie --- monster low end on recto cabs, roadking cabs are much better, standard cabs are quite nice as well.
Orange ---- Well Rounded tone
B-52 --- the higher end cabinets are built of 13ply birch! and cheap!)
Randall
Genz-Benz --- Phenominal low end response
Custom Audio Amplification (Suhr)
Diezel
Splawn ---- Best bang for buck!
Cornford ---- Found a 2x12 with flight case at pawn shop for $360. You might have the same luck.
Soldano
VHT ---- Big Bottom cabs are well known for thick tone

I would add Krank to that list. Some people might not dig the heads, but the cabs are top notch. They are one of the only makers that uses solid hardwood, they are road proven touring cabinets, and they are a very good sounding cab to boot. I have a Mills Acoustics cab and a Krank cab, and while everything sounds good thru the mills, there are still certain heads that sound as good or better through the Krank believe it or not. It's all about matching the right cab/speakers with the right head.
"The fool doth think he is wise, but the wiseman knows himself to be a fool." - W.S.
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#23
Quote by Erock503


I would add Krank to that list. Some people might not dig the heads, but the cabs are top notch. They are one of the only makers that uses solid hardwood, they are road proven touring cabinets, and they are a very good sounding cab to boot. I have a Mills Acoustics cab and a Krank cab, and while everything sounds good thru the mills, there are still certain heads that sound as good or better through the Krank believe it or not. It's all about matching the right cab/speakers with the right head.


I was in another thread and I just realized I forgot Krank, I was going to edit it then I saw you posted!
Major of 7 String Legion 7 > 6

Carvin DC747
Ibanez RG2228
Schecter Avenger Custom Shop
and my baby....
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#24
I forgot to mention, I will be playing every genre imaginable. Rockabilly, jazz, fusion, metal, blues, rock, hard rock, alt rock, psychadelic rock, triphop, funk, rap stuff, whatever you can think of, I'll play it eventually.

So, that being said, I looked at the vader 4 x 12, seem s pretty awesome according to the specs, and seems ****ing reliable. I've heard good things about them, not sure why I didn't check em out at first. Only thing about it is...

Everyone who owns one, plays death metal (artists apge). Now I know this shouldn't sway my decision because of who plays it, and it doesn't, but it makes it look like this cab wouldn't be able to play anything but the mentied genre.

Is this the real life, or is this just fantasy? I'm caught in a landslide guys, help me escape from reality.
Blackstar HT-5

Agile AL-2000 with Chrome Hardware
#25
Quote by MESAexplorer
I was in another thread and I just realized I forgot Krank, I was going to edit it then I saw you posted!


:stickpoke

Quote by CrushedCan
I forgot to mention, I will be playing every genre imaginable. Rockabilly, jazz, fusion, metal, blues, rock, hard rock, alt rock, psychadelic rock, triphop, funk, rap stuff, whatever you can think of, I'll play it eventually.

So, that being said, I looked at the vader 4 x 12, seem s pretty awesome according to the specs, and seems ****ing reliable. I've heard good things about them, not sure why I didn't check em out at first. Only thing about it is...

Everyone who owns one, plays death metal (artists apge). Now I know this shouldn't sway my decision because of who plays it, and it doesn't, but it makes it look like this cab wouldn't be able to play anything but the mentied genre.

Is this the real life, or is this just fantasy? I'm caught in a landslide guys, help me escape from reality.


not saying it wouldn't sound great, but those cabs are aimed at the more extreme genres. They are meant to dish out a lot of lowend, and keep it tight. They excel at what they are aimed for, but there might be better choices if you are looking at versatility being the most important aspect.
"The fool doth think he is wise, but the wiseman knows himself to be a fool." - W.S.
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Last edited by Erock503 at May 21, 2008,
#26
Quote by CrushedCan
I forgot to mention, I will be playing every genre imaginable. Rockabilly, jazz, fusion, metal, blues, rock, hard rock, alt rock, psychadelic rock, triphop, funk, rap stuff, whatever you can think of, I'll play it eventually.

So, that being said, I looked at the vader 4 x 12, seem s pretty awesome according to the specs, and seems ****ing reliable. I've heard good things about them, not sure why I didn't check em out at first. Only thing about it is...

Everyone who owns one, plays death metal (artists apge). Now I know this shouldn't sway my decision because of who plays it, and it doesn't, but it makes it look like this cab wouldn't be able to play anything but the mentied genre.

Is this the real life, or is this just fantasy? I'm caught in a landslide guys, help me escape from reality.


The first 6 cab companies I mentioned are going to build basically, the best cabs you can buy. They're all going to have specific niches though.

Mills is basically the Mesa Recto cab done right. Tight, tons of bass, yet not uncontrollable. Projects, and built extremely sturdy.

Port City have an interesting front port on them. Many claim that they sound thicker and fuller than a 4x12 (on the 2x12 models that is). I would put faith into it, the G-flex I have is definatly not as well designed as the port city and it sounds extremely thick. The projection on them is going to be huge, as no sound dwells within it.


If I may...Add Bassoon to the Cab specialists. They build some nice cabinets with an insane level of sealing them for equalizing pressure.
Major of 7 String Legion 7 > 6

Carvin DC747
Ibanez RG2228
Schecter Avenger Custom Shop
and my baby....
Gibson Explorer Studio
#27
Quote by zwound
Holy hell, you changed your avatar.

What's the world coming to?

Something new, I hope. First, the Tele. Then Howard Moon. Now Mr. Styles. Indecision is terribble.

TS, try an Avatar Contemparay 2x12". Being a touch larger than the other two, it will sound a bit fuller and bassier, which negates the advantages of a 4x12". Mostly.
#28
Bogner cabs ftw!!
Hufschmid
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