#1
For suspended chords, does it always have to be the 3rd that's altered?
#3
Yep, cuz there is no 3rd they cannot be classed as either major or minor, so they're ambiguous to both minor and major keys.
Last edited by mdc at May 21, 2008,
#4
u can suspend anything in a chord its a note that dosent fit and resolves to a different one like
g -g f
e -d
c -b
q - h q

the g would b held while the rest of the chord changes then it would resolve in the chord on the 2nd beat of it this case im doing a 5-4 passing tone
Last edited by selkies at May 21, 2008,
#5
no u can do more complex suspensions then just the 3rd of the chord u can do a 7-8 suspension 5-6 there is a bunch of them
#6
Quote by selkies
u can suspend anything in a chord its a note that dosent fit and resolves to a different one like

It's only called a suspended chord if the third is replaced by a second or a fourth. You can "suspend" any note you want in terms of simply leaving it out, but it wouldn't be a suspended chord.

EDIT: Don't double post. Please use the edit button.
#7
Awesome, okay thank you kindly folks.
EDIT: Okay, is it the same for minor chords?
Last edited by will0mon at May 21, 2008,
#8
Quote by :-D
It's only called a suspended chord if the third is replaced by a second or a fourth. You can "suspend" any note you want in terms of simply leaving it out, but it wouldn't be a suspended chord.

EDIT: Don't double post. Please use the edit button.



dude ill copy it straight from my school music theory book

a suspension occurs only as an accented non harmonic tone .there are three phases of a suspension . the preparation, suspension, resolution
heres the book example

q q q top note time
b-b-a
e-e
g-c
e-a
q h chord time
--9-8 suspension
1 5

it goes on to say 2-3 is a commonly used one as well as 7-8 and 4-5
#10
Quote by will0mon
Awesome, okay thank you kindly folks.
EDIT: Okay, is it the same for minor chords?


yea its done the same in minor keys the example i put is in em
#11
Quote by will0mon
Awesome, okay thank you kindly folks.
EDIT: Okay, is it the same for minor chords?

Because of the fact that there's no third, a suspended chord is tonally ambiguous, so there's no major/minor problem.

Selkies: Again, a suspended chords refers to a chord in which the third has been replaced by one of its neighboring tones, the major second or the perfect fourth. I've never seen it referred to any other way, and I think your book might be talking about something different. This came from a classical practice in which one note would be suspended from one chord to the next and then resolve.
#12
Quote by :-D
Because of the fact that there's no third, a suspended chord is tonally ambiguous, so there's no major/minor problem.

Selkies: Again, a suspended chords refers to a chord in which the third has been replaced by one of its neighboring tones, the major second or the perfect fourth. I've never seen it referred to any other way, and I think your book might be talking about something different. This came from a classical practice in which one note would be suspended from one chord to the next and then resolve.

i agree with that being a suspension as i showed in the example it is being held then it resolves to the chord tone on the 2nd part of the beat i was saying you can do it with things other than just the 3rd of the chord you can do it with almost every note in the chord you can also have double suspension where 2 notes in a chord are suspended and then resolve and i like ur two quotes on the bottom i think there pretty funny lol
#13
Very well, I'll just go with :-D because it's easier for me as of now, so thank you all, you have quenched my thirst for knowledge!
#14
I lied, does it HAVE to resolve? What if I like the sound of the suspended all by itself?
#15
Quote by selkies
i agree with that being a suspension as i showed in the example it is being held then it resolves to the chord tone on the 2nd part of the beat i was saying you can do it with things other than just the 3rd of the chord you can do it with almost every note in the chord you can also have double suspension where 2 notes in a chord are suspended and then resolve and i like ur two quotes on the bottom i think there pretty funny lol

Yes, I'm not arguing that you can do that with any note; it's just that it's only called a suspended chord when the third is left out, that's all.

And the quotes gave me a good laugh as well.
Quote by will0mon
I lied, does it HAVE to resolve? What if I like the sound of the suspended all by itself?

It doesn't have to resolve, do whatever you like with it. In folk music suspended chords don't resolve quite a bit of the time, and arpeggiating a suspended chord sounds nice to me.
Quote by selkies
then its not a suspension its a different type of chord what are the notes in the chord?

Sorry, but that's not right. If I play a chord comprised of notes A D E G but don't resolve it, I've still played A7sus4.
#16
then its not a suspension its a different type of chord what are the notes in the chord?
#17
Quote by :-D
Yes, I'm not arguing that you can do that with any note; it's just that it's only called a suspended chord when the third is left out, that's all.

And the quotes gave me a good laugh as well.

i think ur talkin a bout a sus chord and im talking about a note that has been suspended because suspension refers to the note that is being held through not the chord
#18
Quote by selkies
i think ur talkin a bout a sus chord and im talking about a note that has been suspended because suspension refers to the note that is being held through not the chord

Yes, that's exactly what I was trying to say.
#19
lol ok now im waitin for him to write the notes dow so i can tell him what chord it is
#20
Quote by selkies
lol ok now im waitin for him to write the notes dow so i can tell him what chord it is

You're going to need more than the chord, you'll need a harmonic context as well. Look at my previous post (the big one), by the way; you said something before that wasn't quite right.
#21
I don't have a specific chord in mind, but I'll throw one out there: Dmaj, would be D-F#-A, a suspended4 would be D-G-A and and a 2 would be D-E-A correct?
#22
Quote by will0mon
I don't have a specific chord in mind, but I'll throw one out there: Dmaj, would be D-F#-A, a suspended4 would be D-G-A and and a 2 would be D-E-A correct?

Yes, that's correct.
#23
thats sustaind not suspended the sus is sustaind that d-g-a would b a Dsus4 and the d-e-a is a dsus2
#24
Quote by selkies
thats sustaind not suspended the sus is sustaind that d-g-a would b a Dsus4 and the d-e-a is a dsus2

That's what he said. "sus" refers to "suspended", there's no notation for a "sustained" chord; it's just what some people wrongly call a suspended chord.

will0mon: To make things clear, avoid his post. Here is what you need to know:
D major triad: D F# A
Dsus2: D E A
Dsus4: D G A

Like I said, you were correct in the first place.
#25
lawlz to teh wallz, Okay well thank BOTH OF YOU I appreciate it greatly, now I finally have something new to practice =D
#26
Well, while I'm here one more thing!!! Could someone give me the concrete formula for attaining a blues scale? Our teacher tells us one thing, then the lesson she handed us said another, so I'm a bit confuzzled, any clarification would help.
#29
Quote by :-D
Sure.

Minor blues scale: 1 b3 4 b5 5 b7
Major blues scale ascending: 1 b3 3 4 b5 5 b6 6 b7
Major blues scale descending: b7 6 b6 5 b5 4 b3 3 1



Im not sure I understand where your getting the Major Blues scale from.

I believe its just 1,2,b3,3,5,6 regardless of direction.
#30
Quote by GuitarMunky
Im not sure I understand where your getting the Major Blues scale from.

I believe its just 1,2,b3,3,5,6 regardless of direction.

No, the reason it's b3 3 on the way down is to create a major tonality. If you play the b3 directly before the root (over a dominant chord, let's say) then it's a minor third and will sound minor. By playing the b3 first and then going to the 3, you'll get an interval of a major third when you're going back down to the root.
#31
Quote by :-D
No, the reason it's b3 3 on the way down is to create a major tonality. If you play the b3 directly before the root (over a dominant chord, let's say) then it's a minor third and will sound minor. By playing the b3 first and then going to the 3, you'll get an interval of a major third when you're going back down to the root.


well the b3 is more or less a passing tone. If you hang on it, it can function as a #9. The 3 is always there, and its always a major tonality.
#32
Quote by GuitarMunky
well the b3 is more or less a passing tone. If you hang on it, it can function as a #9. The 3 is always there, and its always a major tonality.

It always has a major tonality, and therefore you want to emphasize that when you're going back down to the root. Regardless of whether or not the b3 functions as a passing tone, the ear will hear the minor tonality if you do something that involves a b3-1 motion.
#33
Quote by :-D
It always has a major tonality, and therefore you want to emphasize that when you're going back down to the root. Regardless of whether or not the b3 functions as a passing tone, the ear will hear the minor tonality if you do something that involves a b3-1 motion.


Not necesarrily..... if the chord underneath is Major..... you will not hear that is minor. it will sound #9 to 1.
#34
Quote by GuitarMunky
Not necesarrily..... if the chord underneath is Major..... you will not hear that is minor. it will sound #9 to 1.

You'll hear it in relation to the chord, yes, but that motion will always sound minor because the harmonic interval hasn't changed. In the example I gave, I was also talking about going through the scale up and down, in which case you wouldn't want to play b3-1 in a major blues scale. Playing a repeated lick that goes b3-3-1 is very common in blues and is based off of this concept.
#35
Quote by selkies
thats sustaind not suspended the sus is sustaind that d-g-a would b a Dsus4 and the d-e-a is a dsus2



LOL.......wow....


Erm, dude I advise listening to ":-D", he seems to know what he is talking about. As for "Selkies".........
Proud Owner of:

Jackson RR3
Jackson WRMG

Quote by madbasslover
What's the big deal with Gibsons, anyway?
I've heard loads of Gibsons being played before
and they don't sound any more special than
any other guitar.

^UG's King Of Fail.
#36
Quote by :-D
You'll hear it in relation to the chord, yes, but that motion will always sound minor because the harmonic interval hasn't changed. In the example I gave, I was also talking about going through the scale up and down, in which case you wouldn't want to play b3-1 in a major blues scale. Playing a repeated lick that goes b3-3-1 is very common in blues and is based off of this concept.



Im not sure I understand you. Just like the issue people have with modes..... this is the same. its the chords that determine how those notes will sound. C to A over an A7 chord is #9 to 1.

anyway so what are you saying is the "correct" way to spell a Major blues scale ?

I still say there is no need to label anything different between ascending and descending. The notes are do not change function because of direction.

its : R, 2, b3, 3, 5, 6

if you want to call the b3 #2 or #9 thats fine as well.
#37
Then take the chords out of the equation entirely and you should see what I'm saying: if you're descending and play 3 b3 1, the 3 will sound like a passing tone to lead to a minor finishing tonality as opposed to the other way around, as it should be for a major blues scale.
#38
Quote by :-D
Then take the chords out of the equation entirely and you should see what I'm saying: if you're descending and play 3 b3 1, the 3 will sound like a passing tone to lead to a minor finishing tonality as opposed to the other way around, as it should be for a major blues scale.


what about the 2 ?

3,b3,2 1 (descending).... b3 passes between 3 and 2.
#39
just to throw my 2 cents in (we're so far past the sus questions now)

the end of 'Floods' by pantera has an EXCELLENT part that is nothing but sus2 chords over and over that sounds beautiful but never resolves. its a good example of not needing to resolve the 2.
#40
it's like playing the penatonic scale with the b5 in it , so you call it the blues


It's just the Minor bebop less the b7

The major bebop has the #5 inserted into a major

The dominate bebop has the b7 between the 6 and 7

The Blues veriation 3 is 1,b3,3,4,b5,5,6,b7,7
The way i play it ...the 3,b5,7 are option notes of the minor pentatonic
to help swing
Last edited by Ordinary at May 21, 2008,