#1
i do not understand the minor scales,
natural minor i think i get ok, you just play the 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 of the key, i understand that.

harmonic minor is 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 7

melodic minor is 1 2 b3 4 5 6 7

but why is the melodic minor scales diffrent descending? that just doesnt make any sense to me...
#2
In modern music, the melodic minor scale is generally played the same up and down, using the intervals you gave.

You answer requires a short history lesson on minor scales.

We started with the natural minor scale, 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7. We wanted a leading tone, a note a half-step below the root, so we created the harmonic minor scale, 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 7. This scale has the maj7 that leads nicely back to the root, but the awkward interval between the b6 and 7 (try singing the scale). So, we raised the 6th and got the melodic minor scale, 1 2 b3 4 5 6 7. However, when descending, there is no pull towards the other important tone, the 5th. The b6 in natural and harmonic minor pulls to the 5th when you descend, so the melodic minor scale was played with a b6 descending. This brought back that awkward intervals between b6 and 7, to the 7th was lowered as well when descending. However, once jazz musicians started using quite a bit of the maj7 tone (m/maj7 chords), the b7 sounded bad, so they just played the scale the same up and down. So in modern music, the scale is generally played the same ascending and descending.
#3
oh, i guess it was the harmonic minor which is diffrent when descending and ascending? sorry, i got confused.
#4
no the melodic minor was the one that was different descending than ascending, the harmonic minor's structure never changes. read the previous post more carefully
#5
ok, so what i got out of that was.

the melodic minor scale sounds ugly descending, so people just lowered the 6th and 7th, making it the natural minor scale?

#6
it just depends how you play it. I guess if you make a trun around
at the octive and decend it might sound wierd when training your ear.

Generally when riffing or phrasing you don't play it striaght down
or stop at the octive.

I think it has something to do with the V7 chord
Last edited by Ordinary at May 22, 2008,
#7
Quote by Guitar x Dude 7
ok, so what i got out of that was.

the melodic minor scale sounds ugly descending, so people just lowered the 6th and 7th, making it the natural minor scale?


The melodic minor is played as a natural minor scale when descending, yes. This is because the b6 will pull to the 5 more than the natural 6.

This is found in classical music, really; not so much in modern music, as BGC mentioned.
#9
Quote by Guitar x Dude 7
so is pull some technical term i have never heard. or just some slang im not getting?

The "pull" means that the b6 to 5 will sound more resolved to the ear than a natural sixth to the fifth. The ear hears the descending motion with the b6 and wants to hear it go to 5, and in that way the line is being "pulled". It's all about aural perception, really.
#10
Quote by bangoodcharlote
In modern music, the melodic minor scale is generally played the same up and down, using the intervals you gave.

You answer requires a short history lesson on minor scales.

We started with the natural minor scale, 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7. We wanted a leading tone, a note a half-step below the root, so we created the harmonic minor scale, 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 7. This scale has the maj7 that leads nicely back to the root, but the awkward interval between the b6 and 7 (try singing the scale). So, we raised the 6th and got the melodic minor scale, 1 2 b3 4 5 6 7. However, when descending, there is no pull towards the other important tone, the 5th. The b6 in natural and harmonic minor pulls to the 5th when you descend, so the melodic minor scale was played with a b6 descending. This brought back that awkward intervals between b6 and 7, to the 7th was lowered as well when descending. However, once jazz musicians started using quite a bit of the maj7 tone (m/maj7 chords), the b7 sounded bad, so they just played the scale the same up and down. So in modern music, the scale is generally played the same ascending and descending.
Listen to this women...

Just remember that classical composers wont pick one scale or the other, most classical composers would use all of these scales in the same piece.

In minor tonality, you need the M7 to lead to the root and you need the b6 to lead to the 5'th. But at the same time alot of guys dont like the jump between the b6 and the M7. But you dont need to flatten the 7'th if the next note your planning to play isnt the root, actually you shouldnt *normally*. Playing a note other than the root just above the M7 is typically described as a romantic style dissonance. To make all of this simpler, some people might tell you to only approach the M7 from a note higher than that same M7.

This is why alot of guys would say writing music in minor is more difficult than writing it in major, in major tonality you can pretty much keep to the same 7 notes without sounding too dissonant. Although there are some circumstances where you would want to use a #4 instead of a 4.