#1
I was just wondering if I was to compose a song in Dminor then have a solo instrument over the top playing in a Hungarian Gypsy scale would it sound too dissonant or would I be able to full it off?
#2
By Hungarian Gypsy I assume you mean Hungarian Minor (there's no real agreed-upon name, that's just how I know it.) Since you're working with different intervals, find a way to transition into some chords that would be characteristic of Hungarian minor, then play the scale over those chords and you'll be okay.
#3
My advice would be to use D minor and occasionally use the altered notes of Hungarian gypsy to add some flavor, maybe a chromatic run from G to Bb or something.

EDIT: I'm assuming that the Hungarian gypsy scale is the double harmonic minor scale. If not, disregard my example but my point still stands.
Last edited by grampastumpy at May 24, 2008,
#4
Judging by the fact that we already have multiple theories kindly give us the notes of this Hungarian Scale of yours so that we know what the scale actually is instead of assuming.
#5
Quote by colohue
Judging by the fact that we already have multiple theories kindly give us the notes of this Hungarian Scale of yours so that we know what the scale actually is instead of assuming.

Hungarian Minor = 1 2 b3 #4 5 b6 7
I assume that's what he means. For example, in C it is C D Eb F# G Ab B.
#6
That's what I went by as well. I still recommend using D minor and using any altered tones in Hungarian gypsy as alterations to the minor scale, assuming of course that said Hungarian gypsy scale is loosely based on the minor scale. If it's some kind of altered phrygian dominant or something I think you're better off using something else.
#8
Quote by RudiVanDiSarzio
The Hungarian minor and Hungarian gypsy are one and the same just to clear things up
Whats its formula? Whats its purpose? Whats a common progression its used over?
#9
Quote by demonofthenight
Whats its formula? Whats its purpose? Whats a common progression its used over?

The formula is 1 2 b3 #4 5 b6 7, basically harmonic minor with a #4. There are no common progressions because it's a seldom used scale, but you could form some chords by playing around with those notes and get it to sound interesting.
#10
Quote by :-D
Hungarian Minor = 1 2 b3 #4 5 b6 7
I assume that's what he means. For example, in C it is C D Eb F# G Ab B.


We're thus to assume his root would be D then I suppose.

First I should point out that, since it is close to but not actually the minor scale, it wouldn't be considered a mode.

Dminor: D, E, F, G, A, Bb, C

D Hungarian Gypsy: D, E, F, G#, A, Bb, C

So in actuality, as given by Guitar Pro and confirmed by :-D, the only difference is the fourth. While that is usually a strong leading tone in solos it's also a tone that rarely comes up in chords so I would say you're fairly safe to solo in Hungarian.
#12
Quote by :-D
That should be a C#, the C is a b7.


Now would that be because Guitar Pro is incorrect?

If so I'll have to not use the Hungarian Gypsy scale in future. Oh no, whatever will I do?

</sarcasm>
#13
Quote by colohue
Now would that be because Guitar Pro is incorrect?

If so I'll have to not use the Hungarian Gypsy scale in future. Oh no, whatever will I do?

</sarcasm>
Pull your head out of your ass. You two might be talking about different scales anyway. If Guitar Pro is indeed correct, the Hungarian Gypsy is just a natural minor with a raised fourth, whereas the Hungarian minor/double harmonic minor we assumed it to be is a harmonic minor with a raised fourth.
#14
Quote by colohue
Now would that be because Guitar Pro is incorrect?

If so I'll have to not use the Hungarian Gypsy scale in future. Oh no, whatever will I do?

</sarcasm>

If it says there's a C, it's incorrect. Like I said, it's a harmonic minor with a #4 so you'd need a C# if you're working from D. D E F G# A Bb C would be 1 2 b3 #4 5 b6 b7, which would be incorrect in naming the scale.
#15
Quote by :-D
If it says there's a C, it's incorrect. Like I said, it's a harmonic minor with a #4 so you'd need a C# if you're working from D. D E F G# A Bb C would be 1 2 b3 #4 5 b6 b7, which would be incorrect in naming the scale.
Remember though, this is assuming the Hungarian Minor is the same as the Hungarian Gypsy. The Hungarian Gypsy could very well be 1 2 b3 #4 5 b6 b7.

EDIT: Nevermind, just read TS' other post. Unless, of course, HE's wrong, I suppose this can be ignored.
#16
Quote by grampastumpy
Remember though, this is assuming the Hungarian Minor is the same as the Hungarian Gypsy. The Hungarian Gypsy could very well be 1 2 b3 #4 5 b6 b7.

All sources I've found indicate that they're two names for the same scale. The TS acknowledged this, so he'd be talking about the scale with the 7 anyway, not the b7.
#17
Guitar pro says hungarian minor and hungarian gypsy are two different scales.

Is there a purpose to all these exotic scales? I see no purpose or reason in learning them, their unique sounds can easily be faked with accidentals and knowledge of harmonic/melodic dissonance.
Stupid scales...
#18
Quote by demonofthenight
Guitar pro says hungarian minor and hungarian gypsy are two different scales.

Is there a purpose to all these exotic scales? I see no purpose or reason in learning them, their unique sounds can easily be faked with accidentals and knowledge of harmonic/melodic dissonance.
Stupid scales...
I prefer to see them as just alterations to a major or minor scale or mode. I'd rather add a #4 into my minor key playing than be playing the Hungarian gypsy. People sure do get carried with learning all kinds of exotic scales when they could just take what's different about them and add them into their regular playing.

And evidently Guitar Pro supports me. Yay!
#19
Quote by grampastumpy
I prefer to see them as just alterations to a major or minor scale or mode. I'd rather add a #4 into my minor key playing than be playing the Hungarian gypsy. People sure do get carried with learning all kinds of exotic scales when they could just take what's different about them and add them into their regular playing.

And evidently Guitar Pro supports me. Yay!


I'd rather go with :-D's opinion for two reasons.

1) I've known him to be correct on many an occasion.

2) He didn't inform me to get my head out of my arse when my reasoning disagreed with his.
#20
Quote by colohue
I'd rather go with :-D's opinion for two reasons.

1) I've known him to be correct on many an occasion.

2) He didn't inform me to get my head out of my arse when my reasoning disagreed with his.
1) It's not like we necessarily disagree, he hasn't even stated how he feels about these kinds of scales.

2) Well you started it!

EDIT: Eh, maybe a bit douchey. Terribly sorry if it genuinely bugged you but you kind of asked for it.
Last edited by grampastumpy at May 24, 2008,
#21
Quote by grampastumpy
1) It's not like we necessarily disagree, he hasn't even stated how he feels about these kinds of scales.

2) Well you started it!


You're disagreeing on the fact in question, which is whether the threadstarter's proposed scale contains a 7 or a b7.

And how exactly? By looking at Guitar Pro in a way that could be construed as it being incorrect. I've known it to be incorrect on many an occasion.

However, I've leave it there. I'm not one to hijack a thread with a disagreement. The threadstarted knows the scale he's after.
#22
Quote by demonofthenight
Guitar pro says hungarian minor and hungarian gypsy are two different scales.

Is there a purpose to all these exotic scales? I see no purpose or reason in learning them, their unique sounds can easily be faked with accidentals and knowledge of harmonic/melodic dissonance.
Stupid scales...

Working heavily in these scales gives a sound that can't really be "faked"; sure, for short periods of time that approach will work, but for entire songs I'd be pretty impressed if you could pull it off. Joe Satriani's "Musterion" is in C Hungarian minor, and it has a very distinctive sound to it.

I couldn't agree more with you and grampastumpy about the fact that people think attempting to learn 1,000 scale formulas is the key to good music. I've seen people post entire lists of every scale from major up to the Time-altering scale from Planet Zorn, and it's just ridiculous because they really don't have a clue how to apply them.

As for you, colohue, you deserve a prize for feeding my ego like that. Have a pint.


Oh, TS, I worked out these chords for you based on the degrees of the D Hungarian minor (1 2 b3 #4 5 b6 7 just for clarity), maybe it helps.
Dm
E7b5
F+
Bb7
C#m6

Explore some possibilities with those.
Last edited by :-D at May 24, 2008,
#23
Quote by colohue
You're disagreeing on the fact in question, which is whether the threadstarter's proposed scale contains a 7 or a b7.

And how exactly? By looking at Guitar Pro in a way that could be construed as it being incorrect. I've known it to be incorrect on many an occasion.

However, I've leave it there. I'm not one to hijack a thread with a disagreement. The threadstarted knows the scale he's after.
I may have misunderstood the </sarcasm> thing now that you say you've known GP to be wrong. Assuming you weren't essentially going "LOL GUITAR PRO SEZ IM RITE IN UR FACE NOOB" I'm pretty sure I did. If so, then whoops. Anyways, I never said it DID have a b7, just that it might.
Quote by :-D
I've seen people post entire lists of every scale from major up to the Time-altering scale from Planet Zorn,...
Last edited by grampastumpy at May 24, 2008,