#1
Okay in the past 2 months or so I hit a really awesome milestone thats drastically improved my phrasing (or at least i like my phrasing better this way)

I used to just play in the minor pentatonic and minor blues scales a lot when ever I solo. But recently i've learned the Melodic Minor scale and am currently learning the Bebop Minor scale. I know, pretty strange, but I love the way they sound, i tend to jump from i dont know exactly how to explain it but when ever i hit a certain note in the blues scale i either keep soloing in that scale (depends on what feels right) or if the note is also used in either the Melodic Minor scale or Bebop Minor scale i'll then transition to those scale's notes and it creates a more dynamic and unique feel to my improvising, its less boring.

I've talked to other guitar players I know and they dont ever do this so I was wondering if anyone here on UG does this? I could tab out something for better explanation if its confusing or something lol
Gear:
- G&L Tribute Series Legacy Guitar
- Behringer V-tone GM108 15-watt amp
Last edited by ScruffMcGruff at May 25, 2008,
#2
i believe mr satriani talks about this briefly in an interview, i think its in the modes one on youtube, not sure, but he mentions how he was taught that you can go outside of scale for no more than like 14 notes to add color to a piece
Quote by beadhangingOne
There is no music but metal and muhammad is its prophet.
#4
Cool, i thought maybe we could share what types of scales are good to jump in between and stuff, so dont hold back, lol.
Gear:
- G&L Tribute Series Legacy Guitar
- Behringer V-tone GM108 15-watt amp
#6
personally i'll use multiple modes of a like feeling (i think i've said this before) such as if something is writting in C minor i'll not only use C minor but C harmonic minor, C locrian, C lydian, C phyrigan, C phrygian dominant and tie them all together. you might think it would sound like a mess but if you play with your base thought on the intervals and keeping a little track of the chord progression you can make it sound awesome.
#7
^I wouldnt mix major scales/modes with minor scales/modes.
Quote by ScruffMcGruff
I've talked to other guitar players I know and they dont ever do this so I was wondering if anyone here on UG does this? I could tab out something for better explanation if its confusing or something lol
Yeah, most guitar players like to keep to one shape/scale and play random notes, without any sense or care of what they're actually playing. Not too effective in my opinion.
#8
I'll switch between minor and minor pentatonic scales. But they have the same notes in each really, except the pentatonic is missing some.. I guess it forces me to vary the intervals. I'd imagine if you switched between varying scales a lot, your music would be all out of key and a mess.
#9
Quote by knivessout
I'll switch between minor and minor pentatonic scales. But they have the same notes in each really, except the pentatonic is missing some.. I guess it forces me to vary the intervals. I'd imagine if you switched between varying scales a lot, your music would be all out of key and a mess.
Not really....
The mind can remember the last what, 5 notes? 7 if your playing fast, about 3 or 4 if your playing slowly. So as long as you dont say use a minor sixth and a major sixth in the same phrase (unless your doing a cool chromatic run or something), your pretty much right.

Other notes you might not want to mix are minor and major seconds (once again, unless your doing a chromatic run) and IMO (people will disagree to this) perfect fourths and augmented fourths.

Anyway, in the last 50 years sounding "out of key" has been viewed as creative and so on. Think post-swing jazz or expressionism or something.
#10
Quote by demonofthenight
^I wouldnt mix major scales/modes with minor scales/modes.
Yeah, most guitar players like to keep to one shape/scale and play random notes, without any sense or care of what they're actually playing. Not too effective in my opinion.

im pretty sure what i listed were all minor in nature.
#12
^ LOL, not lydian yer right my bad. phrygian dominant sounds somewhat minor to me :P: so i use it in context where i can.
#13
I mix scales all the time. Well not all the time, only when I'm feeling creative. For example, I sometimes mix C minor (both) with the C Blues scale. Blues scale has chromatics, and it gives it a nice break away from the ordinary. In my opinion, the more scales or modes you know, the more opportunities you have to make your music sound the way you want it to. I'm not saying you have to mix a million scales in one song, but it's good to have the opportunity. Just my opinion, I know some are going to dissagree.

EDIT: The C minor triad fits into the C blues scale. C Eb G. That's my flame shield.
Last edited by one vision at May 26, 2008,
#14
Totally. That's basically modal interchange and it's a way to bust out of a diatonic scale without just using chromatic runs. Borrow C dorian notes(or the A natural rather) while playing in C minor, sometimes choose the major seventh, sometimes the minor(harmonic or natural minor). Fun stuff, works especially well in jazz. In fact, I wouldn't try this over a standard diatonic rock tune unless the chords indicated it would work.
#15
I do it too, but only with pretty similar scales as I don't feel like I'm far enough into theory to try to mix stuff that sounds really different.

as an example, when I play a minor scale it's often mixed with the blues scale so my scale would be something like 1 2 b3 4 b5 5 b6 b7 1 except I don't play the b5 and the b6 to closely together in a phrase unless I'm doing a chromatic run or something, or I'm wanting a little bit of an off key feel

and I also like to go from minor to harmonic minor sometimes too depending on what I want
#16
This is so awesome, i'm glad there's other ppl who do this. My guitar class I swear, the teacher alienates me for doing it, because he says it sounds good but then he scrutinizes me for playing 'out of key'. Honestly as long as it sounds good, it shouldn't matter what friggin key that solo is in!
Gear:
- G&L Tribute Series Legacy Guitar
- Behringer V-tone GM108 15-watt amp
#17
Quote by ScruffMcGruff
Honestly as long as it sounds good, it shouldn't matter what friggin key that solo is in!
WHen you're playing music with your feiends or in a band setting then play what you want. When you're in a basic theory class and your assignment is to compose something using the D Dorian mode, don't screw around and play out-of-key tones; just do the damn assignment.
#18
Quote by bangoodcharlote
WHen you're playing music with your feiends or in a band setting then play what you want. When you're in a basic theory class and your assignment is to compose something using the D Dorian mode, don't screw around and play out-of-key tones; just do the damn assignment.


Yeah, i learned that the hard way, he gave me a C on my solo. Even though everyone liked mine the best Oh well, lol
Gear:
- G&L Tribute Series Legacy Guitar
- Behringer V-tone GM108 15-watt amp
#19
Quote by ScruffMcGruff
Yeah, i learned that the hard way, he gave me a C on my solo. Even though everyone liked mine the best Oh well, lol
You should probably be in a more advanced theory or composition class. Is this college or high school?
#20
^If you use out-of-scale notes or chords, have a reason for doing so. If your teacher asks you "why did you use this chord here?", don't be like "Iunno cuz it sounds good". Have justification like "I used it to resolve to x." You should be aware of what ýou're doing and why you're doing it.
#21
Quote by bangoodcharlote
You should probably be in a more advanced theory or composition class. Is this college or high school?


It's in high school, i soo wish it was a college course. I'll be graduating in like 2 weeks. So i can't wait for college guitar courses; they're gonna be soooo much better.
Gear:
- G&L Tribute Series Legacy Guitar
- Behringer V-tone GM108 15-watt amp
#22
Quote by one vision
^If you use out-of-scale notes or chords, have a reason for doing so. If your teacher asks you "why did you use this chord here?", don't be like "Iunno cuz it sounds good". Have justification like "I used it to resolve to x." You should be aware of what ýou're doing and why you're doing it.
Yeah, in any other setting, "Because it sounds good" is a perfectly valid explanation, but in a class you really should know why you're doing what you're doing.
#23
Quote by ScruffMcGruff
It's in high school, i soo wish it was a college course. I'll be graduating in like 2 weeks. So i can't wait for college guitar courses; they're gonna be soooo much better.
Are you planning on studying music?
#24
I mix the blues and minor scales, but go in out of both of them, instead of doing both at once. I do the same with minor scales. Blues/Mixo is a pretty cool one too.
Quote by darkstar2466
Bigfoot.... The Abominable Snowman.... Chinese Democracy.... all stories, nothing more.


#25
There's a list of famous blues players at least as long as my arm that switch between the major and minor blues scales within a single solo. Can keep a solo moving along by forcing the listener into an unexpected direction, rather than just feeding them the standard blues licks they're expecting to hear.

A particular favorite is, when playing in the blues minor scales, resolve to the root via the major third. Adds some interesting color to the resolution.
#26
Quote by elgalad
A particular favorite is, when playing in the blues minor scales, resolve to the root via the major third. Adds some interesting color to the resolution.
+1. Although I wouldn't really do this in a minor blues. Minor third major third root is a great resolution to the root.
#27
Quote by bangoodcharlote
Are you planning on studying music?


I began studying music solely for the purpose of sounding better at guitar, so far its working, but in the current class im in, they're teaching things i've already learned. lol
Gear:
- G&L Tribute Series Legacy Guitar
- Behringer V-tone GM108 15-watt amp
#28
Quote by ScruffMcGruff
I began studying music solely for the purpose of sounding better at guitar, so far its working, but in the current class im in, they're teaching things i've already learned. lol
I meant pursuing a college degree in music.
#29
Quote by bangoodcharlote
I meant pursuing a college degree in music.


mmm, well idk about that quite yet. Learning how music works is interesting to me, but my eyes are more set on earning a degree in the the arts to become a graphic artist. I like the idea of exploring how music works but only to improve my guitar playing ability, :/ are you pursuing getting a college degree in music yourself?
Gear:
- G&L Tribute Series Legacy Guitar
- Behringer V-tone GM108 15-watt amp
#30
Quote by ScruffMcGruff
Yeah, i learned that the hard way, he gave me a C on my solo. Even though everyone liked mine the best Oh well, lol
I'm not too sure if I agree with art being graded...

On one hand, you should grade someones grasp on composition and virtuosity.

On another hand, grading someones expression is... well, morally questionable.
#31
You can download Blender for Free and tried out 3D animation.
it takes a while to get use to navigate, but after you get use to the
short cut keys it'll save you time.
and you thought music (prime numbers) are wicked ? The UV XZY cordinates is a trip.
it'll help you see things from veriouse angle or inversions.lol
Sometimes you have to map texture or flip all the 3d mess on backwards to get it to display correctly depending what engines you want to use it on.lol

You can also get Gimp for free.

anywho..you can fit a squad into a sphere. if you reserch enough..you'll
figure it out. Direct X stuff is cool.
you gatta have killer music for a kick butt vidio game.
this ain't real..it's a sim.
art is cool
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDANpgZRjCU
Last edited by Ordinary at May 27, 2008,
#32
Quote by ScruffMcGruff
are you pursuing getting a college degree in music yourself?
Math and chemistry...want to get into medical and biological research via the MD.

But music is a lot of fun.
#33
Quote by bangoodcharlote
But music is a lot of fun.
It damn well is, but truth be told, it wont help me at all when I move out. It will never play the bills. Which is a pity, since its one of the few areas I excel in
#34
Quote by demonofthenight
^I wouldnt mix major scales/modes with minor scales/modes.


That's actually really common in blues - even major pent directly to minor pent over the same chord.
#35
Quote by Freepower
That's actually really common in blues - even major pent directly to minor pent over the same chord.


+1

they do that over dominant 7ths all the time. Both Major and minor pentatonic contain notes that work well with the dominant 7th chord.

Major pent: R, 2(9), 3, 5, 6(13)

minor pent: R, #9, 4(11), 5, b7