#1
http://www.thatraymond.com/downloads/solidstate_guitar_amplifiers_teemu_kyttala_v1.0.pdf

That should keep us 'Tubers' quiet for awhile, eh? Lots of discussion to go around on this. 56K warning, it's 31mb.

"It must be noted though that soft clipping always narrows down the linear operating
region and thus decreases the amount of “linear” output power that can be extracted
from a given supply. Thus an amplifier that provides 100 watts of output power @ 1%
THD when swinging rail-to-rail cannot employ an additional soft clipping scheme and
emulate an inherently soft clipping 100 watts @ 1% THD amplifier. For that it needs
more power reserve. In fact, when engaged the soft limiter might drop the amount of
output power at equal THD closer to 40 or 50 watts, depending on the softness of the
utilized limiter setup. This explains why inherently soft clipping amplifiers - be they
solid-state or tube - are louder when compared to ones that clip abruptly." -The PDF
I got some good guitars, yo.
#2
im not even gonna click on this link. there is no debate. if you want i will give you some SCIENTIFIC FACTS.
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It was like a orgasm in my ear.
Chea_man is the best.
#3
Quote by chea_man
im not even gonna click on this link. there is no debate. if you want i will give you some SCIENTIFIC FACTS.


Well I don't want to link to the forum I got it from but it has to do with solid-state amps. Google something along those lines...anyways this guy Teemu Kyttälä compiled this book full of facts all the way from the 30's. So don't worry about taking a look, they're all facts.


"The “tube watt is louder than transistor watt” is a myth that needs to be straightened
out: A watt is a watt, whether it is produced with a transistor, tube or steam engine.
That in mind, the differences in loudness can usually be caused only by:
· Differences in the compared signals. There are several causes for this, such as
clipping or unequal system gains and frequency responses.
· Differences in speaker system efficiencies throughout their effective
bandwidth." -The PDF
I got some good guitars, yo.
#4
everyone knows tubes are better

07 Fender American Deluxe Strat
07 Fender Custom Telecaster
09 Seymour Duncan Pickup Booster
09 Fulltone OCD V.4
10 Ibanez WH-10 V.2
09 Splawn SuperStock
10 Jet City JCA-20
97 Fender Hot Rod Deluxe

Yeh the SICK! bit sounds a bit stupid.

#5
tube vs solid state

like saying dell vs alienware

one will get you by, the other will blow you away
Vociferance


Halcyon

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#6
As far as i'm concerned:

Tube>SS, and will be for a loong time.
There's always exceptions in certain applications (roland JC, vettas), but in general, tubes will be better than SS.
Call me Wes.
Gear:
Fender American Deluxe HSS Strat
Chicago Blues Box Roadhouse
Bad Cat Cougar 5
1957 Gibson GA-5
Ceriatone 18w TMB Combo
Hughes & Kettner Tube Factor
Various Ibanez TS9s
Weber MASS Attenuator
#7
of course a tube watt is no louder than a ss watt. watts are a measurement of power rather than volume.

I can't be bothered reading through it but from what you've posted, all it's arguing is that tube amps aren't actually louder than SS amps. and almost everybody will concede that because it's true. A tube amp does however seem louder to the human due to harmonic distortion and the fact that tube distort right away giving the illusion of volume.
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#8
Tube>SS
/thread
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GASPPPP! another one pwned by joey!

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#9
There are some very silly things in that document. There are some facts and graphs sprinkled in there, but most of it is opinions, and a lot of them I think are silly opinions.

Right-o! Silly!
#11
The only pro guitarist I can think of right now who uses SS rather than tubes is Johnny Greenwood.
#13
Actually, let's not forget that Dimebag's best sounds is when he was with Pantera, where he use RH100 and Warhead.

But Unless you enjoy a very stertile clean or sleghhammer-like hi-gain, I also prefer tube.

The difference in volume is due to the human perception, not unlike carrying a 20 pounds item on your back is easier than carrying it on one shoulder, which in turn is also easier than carry it by hands.

I will not knock SS like the rest, because it does have the physical benefit, and the both end of the extreme. What they should do is to make more Class-D guitar amps. But for good sounds... tube is the only way.

P.S. Don't completely knock the essay, since it is a good idea to understand the ideas to build your transistor effect pedal, and everything else (not relating to the solid state sections) about a typical guitar amplifier, such as speaker enclosure and chassis design (or: Why original Bassman actually failed as a bass amp)
Ibanez SA-120 (ed.2006)
BluesJr 1996-B + cathode follower + texas Heat
Crate CPB150
Homemade 4 x 10 cab Bass closeback
Metal Muff
Last edited by Jestersage at May 26, 2008,
#14
I read some of that, and what I understood, his main point was that solid states can be just as good if they are designed and built well. However, usually they aren't (there are exceptions tho). And that's really the point, tube amps are often better than solid states because they are designed better.

Tube amps aren't necessarily inherently better than solid state amps, but at least for now, tube amps tend to be better than solid state amps.

(also it was damn annoying how he was generalising and exaggerating when it came to what the "tube heads" claim and "tube myths" and whatnot, although there were good points in there)
Quote by Lunchbox362
This thread if fail in almost every way imaniganable.
#15
There is no way that I am gonna read 419 pages of nonsense.

It's a matter of taste, it's undebatable.
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#18
Quote by Inspired_by_Vai
*facepalm*

+123434341834803741

this arguement is so ****ING retarded! Who gives a ****? If it sounds good it sounds good, tube or ss who gives a rats ass..
#19
I'm mixing both for my dream *affordable* rig.

I have a tube amp, and I ended up unsatisfied. Are oh tee eff ell.
#20
something i've been wondering for a long time now, if a 15 watt solid state for example, is as loud in dBs as a 15 watt tube amp (is it really? i'm not sure) but we just think the tube amp is louder, does that mean you will not get hearing damage as fast when using a tube amp as opposed to a SS ?
#22
Quote by Leat
Well I don't want to link to the forum I got it from but it has to do with solid-state amps. Google something along those lines...anyways this guy Teemu Kyttälä compiled this book full of facts all the way from the 30's. So don't worry about taking a look, they're all facts.


"The “tube watt is louder than transistor watt” is a myth that needs to be straightened
out: A watt is a watt, whether it is produced with a transistor, tube or steam engine.
That in mind, the differences in loudness can usually be caused only by:
· Differences in the compared signals. There are several causes for this, such as
clipping or unequal system gains and frequency responses.
· Differences in speaker system efficiencies throughout their effective
bandwidth." -The PDF

its not the volume thing that i was talking about.

this is the fact that matters. tubes produce different harmonics than transistors. and guess what, the harmonics that the tubes produce are the ones that the human ear hears better, and because of that it is more pleasing to our ears.

also a watt is a watt, ive said that all along. watt isnt a measure of loudness.
Quote by BryanChampine
It was like a orgasm in my ear.
Chea_man is the best.
#23
Quote by Lemoninfluence
of course a tube watt is no louder than a ss watt. watts are a measurement of power rather than volume.

I can't be bothered reading through it but from what you've posted, all it's arguing is that tube amps aren't actually louder than SS amps. and almost everybody will concede that because it's true. A tube amp does however seem louder to the human due to harmonic distortion and the fact that tube distort right away giving the illusion of volume.


I don't care if it's just the human ear that perceives it as being louder. If we hear it as being louder, then it is louder, simple as, I don't know why anyone bothers with all the techno-babble.

Quote by Fatso Forgottso
*sigh*
there is no ****ing debate, its a mater of personal preference.


This.
A dwarf might hear you. What then?

My Music
#24
As I said, for that esssay, skip the preamp sections; just read up on the speakers and cabinet design.
Ibanez SA-120 (ed.2006)
BluesJr 1996-B + cathode follower + texas Heat
Crate CPB150
Homemade 4 x 10 cab Bass closeback
Metal Muff
#25
Quote by The red Strat.
something i've been wondering for a long time now, if a 15 watt solid state for example, is as loud in dBs as a 15 watt tube amp (is it really? i'm not sure) but we just think the tube amp is louder, does that mean you will not get hearing damage as fast when using a tube amp as opposed to a SS ?


I, too, want an answer to this. So, dB is a measure of sound pressure, more pressure = hearing damage, but a tube amp has more harmonics, so appears louder due to the way our brain works, although does not have more pressure. So I can have a lower wattage tube amp, so less dB, but same volume as a SS amp with more dB - therefore saving my hearing. Right?
Sunn O))):
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Guitar:
- Ibanez S670FM w/ JB
- Fender 'Lite Ash' Stratocaster
- Fender '72 Deluxe Telecaster
- Arbiter LP Jr. Doublecut
Amp:
- Laney VC15

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#26
Quote by SeanHart213
tube vs solid state

like saying dell vs alienware

one will get you by, the other will blow you away


Same company and alienware is overpriced piece of crap.
#27
as delightful as that article may read (not that anyone can be bothered to) it is not going to make an MG sound good

if SS were better then there wouldnt be a debate
#28
Quote by Fatso Forgottso
*sigh*
there is no ****ing debate, its a mater of personal preference.

Pardon to sound like a pit monkey, but you deserve a cookie.
#29
Quote by Crabs111
Same company and alienware is overpriced piece of crap.


Similar to what the book says roughly around page 20.
I got some good guitars, yo.
#30
Quote by Crabs111
Same company and alienware is overpriced piece of crap.


hmmm but the same goes for some amp companies.
Randall has nice SS in the $300 range but their tube amps are overpriced and pretty much the same as the cheaper SS amps
Vociferance


Halcyon

Quote by dead-fish
OMGZ! Chuck shuldingr iz teh master conspiraiter!

Quote by jakekilgore666
sean hart i love your avatar