#1
What do you consider to be music, random sounds put together, a mixture of soul and heart? Tell me, what do you think
#2
I think it's up to the listener. If something sounds like music to you, then it's music.
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#3
Well, it's clearly not RANDOM noise... all (or most) music has definite form and structure. It's organized sound.
#6
Well I think scientifically it's a organized patterns of sounds and silences. But for me, it's life (and different aspects of it) represented by sound.
#7
To me, music is sound. It just depends on how well you can arrange the sounds together into the music.
#8
Quote by srvflood
I think it's up to the listener. If something sounds like music to you, then it's music.

id say its more the musician. if they believe it to be music then it is(like dada in art)
now extra flamey
#10
There is an absolute difference between music and sound. Obviously. Music is definitely a matter of personal preference, but there is a line where something is just sound and something is actually music.

Something with no structure or form at all is not music.
Something without a musical frequency or timpani isnt music.

If your throwing rocks at a wall, even if your doing it with a structure and definite form, i wouldnt say its music. Its art, but not music. And drums are music because they have timpani.
#11
Quote by flyinguitar
There is an absolute difference between music and sound. Obviously. Music is definitely a matter of personal preference, but there is a line where something is just sound and something is actually music.

Something with no structure or form at all is not music.
Something without a musical frequency or timpani isnt music.

If your throwing rocks at a wall, even if your doing it with a structure and definite form, i wouldnt say its music. Its art, but not music. And drums are music because they have timpani.

If the sound of the rocks are used in a creative way I would class it as music.
#12
what would chance music be?
what occurs is random ie. numbers on a dice representing notes

This is still music, yet it goes against the idea of organized sounds
now extra flamey
#13
^^
I would say its art, but not music, rocks aren't timpani, and they don't make pleasing or complex sounds. I'm not talking about pleasing as a personal preference, but as the way it affects our brain. Most music affects our brain positively, but rocks hitting a wall would not.

^
Theres more to music than the notes.
#14
Quote by flyinguitar
^^
I would say its art, but not music, rocks aren't timpani, and they don't make pleasing or complex sounds. I'm not talking about pleasing as a personal preference, but as the way it affects our brain. Most music affects our brain positively, but rocks hitting a wall would not.

^
Theres more to music than the notes.

But being pleasing is subjective. I may find the sound of rocks hitting a wall just that while others may not. I'm sure that sound could be made into something resembling a "song", the sound could even be treated to sound so.
#15
I mentioned that, to a point, it isn't subjective anymore, its physical. The brain is programmed to like certain sounds and dislike certain sounds. Maybe you think rocks hitting the wall is cool, but I really don't think anyone actually would love to hear rocks hitting walls in a musical sense. If they do, they've psychologically deviated from the brain's norms quite a bit
#16
Quote by flyinguitar
I mentioned that, to a point, it isn't subjective anymore, its physical. The brain is programmed to like certain sounds and dislike certain sounds. Maybe you think rocks hitting the wall is cool, but I really don't think anyone actually would love to hear rocks hitting walls in a musical sense. If they do, they've psychologically deviated from the brain's norms quite a bit

I understand what you're saying but I'm not talking about the rocks being thrown at a wall in a 'random' sense. I was talking about the rocks being thrown at the wall in such a way as to sound like a beat (percussion).
#17
But, there is a difference between rocks and percussion. If you modified the rocks so they made a timpanic note, like a drum does, then I would say its music. Basically the thing we are disagreeing on here is the matter of timpani. I say if it doesn't musical frequency or timpani (which a rock has neither) it isnt music.
#18
Quote by flyinguitar
But, there is a difference between rocks and percussion. If you modified the rocks so they made a timpanic note, like a drum does, then I would say its music. Basically the thing we are disagreeing on here is the matter of timpani. I say if it doesn't musical frequency or timpani (which a rock has neither) it isnt music.

What about Harsh Noise? That has no timpani and is still considered music as such.
#19
Quote by flyinguitar
There is an absolute difference between music and sound. Obviously. Music is definitely a matter of personal preference, but there is a line where something is just sound and something is actually music.

Something with no structure or form at all is not music.
Something without a musical frequency or timpani isnt music.

If your throwing rocks at a wall, even if your doing it with a structure and definite form, i wouldnt say its music. Its art, but not music. And drums are music because they have timpani.
what about Noise? i'm sure Merzbow, or any other noise artist would claim his art is music.

also whats a "musical" frequency? i'm curious as to your definition, because it seems to imply that some frequencies are musical, and others arent. most instruments are multi-timbral (correct phrase?), thus they have many frequencies playing at once. i'm not sure how that comes into your theory, but its something to maybe bear in mind while answering my question.

im also curious as to your use of the word timpani - a timpani is a drum. i'm not aware of any other meaning for the word, as the drum takes its name from a latin word...
Last edited by Alucard II at May 29, 2008,
#20
What do you mean? when you play the A string on a guitar, the frequency is 440 Hz. Only 440 Hz. nothing else with it.
By musical frequency, i simply mean frequency. Hitting a rock gives no frequency. just a thud. Timpanic drums do have a frequency, or pitch, that can be changed by tuning it.
I wouldn't consider harsh noise music, its just a bunch of feedback and buzzing.
a lot of Noise does have frequency as it is generated electronically and are electronic noise, but sometimes they do have pitches.
And again, really this is just my opinion, but the Noise without pitch, i would say is art, as it is creative and rhythmic and sounds must be chosen, but I dont think its music. I think there is such a thing as audible art that isnt music.
#21
Quote by flyinguitar
What do you mean? when you play the A string on a guitar, the frequency is 440 Hz. Only 440 Hz. nothing else with it.
By musical frequency, i simply mean frequency. Hitting a rock gives no frequency. just a thud. Timpanic drums do have a frequency, or pitch, that can be changed by tuning it.
I wouldn't consider harsh noise music, its just a bunch of feedback and buzzing.
a lot of Noise does have frequency as it is generated electronically and are electronic noise, but sometimes they do have pitches.
And again, really this is just my opinion, but the Noise without pitch, i would say is art, as it is creative and rhythmic and sounds must be chosen, but I dont think its music. I think there is such a thing as audible art that isnt music.
if you play an A chord on a guitar thats 5 seperate strings vibrating at different frequencies. each string also has its fundamental frequency and its additional overtones.

hitting a rock DOES give a frequency, or you wouldnt be able to hear it. there's no such thing as a sound with no frequency.

and i know what a timpani is i just thought you were using the word to describe an acoustic value of something.

but yeah, its an interesting question.
#22
Technically when you play a chord on a guitar, your playing more than 2 instruments, each string is independent and giving on its own sound and frequency, so they are acting as different instruments.
#23
Quote by flyinguitar
Technically when you play a chord on a guitar, your playing more than 2 instruments, each string is independent and giving on its own sound and frequency, so they are acting as different instruments.
...not really
that applies to a drumkit, i dont think it really applies to a guitar. you're playing multiple strings, but the guitar itself is the instrument, and those strings are a part of the guitar.
#24
Noise applied in a melodic (or not so melodic) sense.
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#25
Quote by Alucard II
...not really
that applies to a drumkit, i dont think it really applies to a guitar. you're playing multiple strings, but the guitar itself is the instrument, and those strings are a part of the guitar.


Nope.
#26
Quote by flyinguitar
Nope.
wow, thats a great argument. you totally won me over. i'll call Stockholm, Nobel prize coming your way my good man.

you mind pointing out where i went wrong? is the guitar not an instrument, or does a guitar not have strings? i beg of you, grace me with your knowledge.
#27
Hey take it easy. If it applies to a drum kit, it applied to a guitar. Each string acts independently and is a separate sound-producer. They are set up in a way so that one person can operate all 6 at the same time, but technically they are separate instruments.
#28
isnt there some composer that one of his pieces is just rests? i met a music performance major awhile back that was telling me he (the composer) actually has "performed" the piece on various occasions.
Last edited by Burdell at May 30, 2008,
#29
Quote by flyinguitar
Hey take it easy. If it applies to a drum kit, it applied to a guitar. Each string acts independently and is a separate sound-producer. They are set up in a way so that one person can operate all 6 at the same time, but technically they are separate instruments.
not really. you cant play a string. you can play a single drum, but a single string doesnt work on its own, without the other pieces of the instrument, ie. the rest of the guitar.
#32
It is just as possible to play a single string as a single drum. most riffs could be played on just one string. Im not saying I would like it.

And that song that is all rests is john cages "4'33"
Its 4:33 of nothing. He calls it music, but not many otherswouldn't.
#33
Quote by flyinguitar
It is just as possible to play a single string as a single drum. most riffs could be played on just one string. Im not saying I would like it.

And that song that is all rests is john cages "4'33"
Its 4:33 of nothing. He calls it music, but not many otherswouldn't.
i take it that the fact that you dodged my point about strings being useless on their own means i've won the argument? a string makes no noise without being suspended across a bridge and a nut. to be fair, this is a pointless argument. i'm really not arsed proving my point anymore when its so damn clear. besides, we've gotten way off topic
#34
I don't like to think of music from a sort of technical viewpoint. For me, it just takes away the whole beauty of a peice. I prefer to think of it as an assortment of feelings or thoughts portrayed through instruments, I like it to feel very natural to me as though it was meant to be that way. It amazes me how listening to a song can make me completely oblivious to everything going on around me. Just my two cents on it though.
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#36
Quote by FireandFlames
To me, music is sound. It just depends on how well you can arrange the sounds together into the music.

I do agree with this.

Music can basically be made from anything.
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#37
Quote by Slash 602
It's organized sound.

Not all music is organized.

Quote by srvflood
I think it's up to the listener. If something sounds like music to you, then it's music.


Same as what I think.