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#1
Right well im getting a new amp this weekend & ive finally narrowed it down to these two:
- Line 6 Spider Valve 212

- Vox Valvetronix AD100VT-XL

I can get them both at around the same price but the Spider Valve is used in mint condition whereas the Vox is brand new. Ive tried out the both but ive only played the Spider Valve at very low volumes so im not sure what it sounds like cranked or how loud it can get.

So id just like to know what the opinions for each amp are in terms of tone & reliability & also id like to know how the Spider Valve compares in volume to the Vox as its only 40W but all tube & i need it for small - medium club gigs as it is going to be my temporary gigging amp (until i get my Bugera 6262 at the end of the year ) but at the same time it will be my home practice amp for a while.
I play metal btw if that matters.

Also if the Vox is the one to go for, would 100W be a bit too much even though it has an attenuator? would i possibly be better off getting an AD50VT2-XL which is still a 2x12 but a fair bit cheaper & maybe more practical for home use & jamming after i get my Bugera?

Any help is greatly appreciated as i really need some last minute advice to help me make my decision.

Cheers
#2
tbh, a 40W all valve is likely to be just as loud or louder than the 100w solid state vox

(if it is solid state, i cant remember)

If u like pedals an ****, go for the spider.

If u like the valvetronix's digital effects, go for that
#3
The Spider Valve is superior.
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#4
Out of those two, I'd say the Spider Valve, because from what I've heard the Valvetronix XL-line is pretty bad (a lot worse than the regular Valvetronixes). Also, are you getting them used for very cheap or what? The Valvetronix is 600 new. The Bugera 6262 combo is 650.
Quote by Lunchbox362
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#5
For the price, there is SO much better out there!
Like something that's actually all tube. The Spider Valve is not.
Signatures are overrated.
#6
I'd go with the Spider Valve if I were you.
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#7
yer i do realise that all tube is better which is why i want to get the Bugera but for home use im not going to need 120W of tube power as thats just a little crazy & wont be able to crank it at all so it'll just go to waste...
& i dont want the 6262 combo since ive already lined up a good deal for a cab in the future & i have some solid gigging coming up next year so im gonna splash on a half stack
#8
If your buying both the Bugera AND the spider valve / valvetronix. Why don't you combine the money and get an even better amp?
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#9
when i was at gc testing out the spider valves, i didn't notice a differnce in sound quality over the spider 3's, over course in gc you can't turn it up to much so that can factor in. Also when switching the presets the volumes would be all over the place and got very frustrating.
...
#10
yer exactly i couldnt turn it up so i really wasnt sure of what to expect..
& trust me i have thought about just getting an awesome amp but im pretty sure that i dont need (or deserve) something $1000+ just yet...
alright so the spider valve seems to be the better choice so far..although i would like someone else to confirm that it wont sound just like a spider 3 because well atleast the ones that ive played are absolutely atrocious to be fair..almost as bad as my old MG :P
#11
So, you're not getting the Bugera because it's loud, but instead you get the Spider Valve because "it'll sound better after I get to turn it up"? If that's what you really want, go ahead - your amps and all, but I'd just get the Bugera right away. It's usable at bedroom volumes you know (maybe not if you live in an apartment with crappy walls and annoying neighbours, but still).
Quote by Lunchbox362
This thread if fail in almost every way imaniganable.
#12
Quote by Ghold125
when i was at gc testing out the spider valves, i didn't notice a differnce in sound quality over the spider 3's, over course in gc you can't turn it up to much so that can factor in. Also when switching the presets the volumes would be all over the place and got very frustrating.

That isn't a problem with the amp itself, you can fix that if you know anything about using Spider amps.
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Quote by DaMarsbarPerson
By high-gain I don't mean stupid stuff. I just mean styles like Motley Crue or Iron Maiden
#13
Quote by Moe.
For the price, there is SO much better out there!
Like something that's actually all tube. The Spider Valve is not.

*Facepalm*
#14
Spider Valve is the best out of those.

A lot of its models sound very close to the originals and I have a feeling that 99.9% of UG wouldn't be able to tell which amp is which if someone made sound clips of the Spider Valve and the amp it's supposed to emulate.

There are MUCH better amps in both those amps price ranges though as both of them are made to play everything and aren't particularly great at one thing. If you want a Bugera, get it now. Your reasoning makes no sense, especially since the amp will sound good at low volume, as with most high gain amps, because all of its gain is in the preamp, meaning you don't have turn it up loud to get gain out of it. Granted, it will sound better cranked, but I doubt you'll ever crank it anyway.
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#15
Quote by Horlicks
*Facepalm*

What? The Spider Valve has a tube power amp. It. Is. A. Hybrid.
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Quote by DaMarsbarPerson
By high-gain I don't mean stupid stuff. I just mean styles like Motley Crue or Iron Maiden
#16
Quote by MortifiedLizard
What? The Spider Valve has a tube power amp. It. Is. A. Hybrid.

QFT.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





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#17
Quote by MortifiedLizard
What? The Spider Valve has a tube power amp. It. Is. A. Hybrid.


Don't forget that tube preamp too
#18
Quote by iamtompublic
Don't forget that tube preamp too

Nope. It's a solid state Spider III preamp.
Epiphone Dot
DIY Esquire w/Neovin Power Rock pickup
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Arion MTE-1 (LED clipping diodes added)
Vox Tonelab LE
Roland SDE1000 delay

Quote by DaMarsbarPerson
By high-gain I don't mean stupid stuff. I just mean styles like Motley Crue or Iron Maiden
#19
Quote by iamtompublic
Don't forget that tube preamp too

The preamp tubes it has is for the phase inverter, which doesn't make the preamp tube.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





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#20
Quote by MatrixClaw
A lot of its models sound very close to the originals and I have a feeling that 99.9% of UG wouldn't be able to tell which amp is which if someone made sound clips of the Spider Valve and the amp it's supposed to emulate.

I can believe that, no problems, but how well do the models manage in real life (I mean live, not recorded)?
Quote by Lunchbox362
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#21
Quote by MatrixClaw
The preamp tubes it has is for the phase inverter, which doesn't make the preamp tube.


The Line 6 modeler feeds a pair of 12AX7 preamp tubes. The first tube is set up as a cascading gain stage, with each stage contributing the harmonic complexity vintage amp players love. That feeds the master volume which hits the next 12AX7 configured as a phase splitter which is followed by Sovtek 5881WXT/6L6. There’s 2 6L6’s for 40 watts of class AB power in the combos and 4 6L6’s for 100 watts of class AB power in the head.
#22
Quote by Fama
I can believe that, no problems, but how well do the models manage in real life (I mean live, not recorded)?

Well, the power amp is all-tube, meaning it should fare just as well as other tube amps at high volume.

Then again, the VK is all-tube and the tone is really cruddy at high volume.
Epiphone Dot
DIY Esquire w/Neovin Power Rock pickup
Vox AC30VR 212
Arion MTE-1 (LED clipping diodes added)
Vox Tonelab LE
Roland SDE1000 delay

Quote by DaMarsbarPerson
By high-gain I don't mean stupid stuff. I just mean styles like Motley Crue or Iron Maiden
#23
Quote by MortifiedLizard
Well, the power amp is all-tube, meaning it should fare just as well as other tube amps at high volume.

Then again, the VK is all-tube and the tone is really cruddy at high volume.


My point was: It's a lot harder to make out any difference in amps from a recording (not to mention a bad recording), whereas hearing the amp played first hand is a lot different. I didn't mean live as in gigging, just live as in hearing-the-guy-next-to-you-play-one. I thought my point might be a bit obscured, but I hope this helps
Quote by Lunchbox362
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#24
Quote by Fama
My point was: It's a lot harder to make out any difference in amps from a recording (not to mention a bad recording), whereas hearing the amp played first hand is a lot different. I didn't mean live as in gigging, just live as in hearing-the-guy-next-to-you-play-one. I thought my point might be a bit obscured, but I hope this helps


why dont you just... not buy one

AND WAIT UNTIL YOU HAVE THE CASH FOR THE BUGERA! seriously they aren't that much money.
#25
Quote by Highwaytohell
why dont you just... not buy one

AND WAIT UNTIL YOU HAVE THE CASH FOR THE BUGERA! seriously they aren't that much money.

I'm just curious and I'm sorry if I have hijacked the thread - I myself have a Bugera 6262 combo, and I'm not the threadstarter who's looking into getting a Valve Spider (since I'm not).
Quote by Lunchbox362
This thread if fail in almost every way imaniganable.
#26
i'm surprised no one has mention the peavey valveking or classic 30. get that and with the money u save u can buy pedals
#27
Quote by iamtompublic
The Line 6 modeler feeds a pair of 12AX7 preamp tubes. The first tube is set up as a cascading gain stage, with each stage contributing the harmonic complexity vintage amp players love. That feeds the master volume which hits the next 12AX7 configured as a phase splitter which is followed by Sovtek 5881WXT/6L6. There’s 2 6L6’s for 40 watts of class AB power in the combos and 4 6L6’s for 100 watts of class AB power in the head.

Yes, exactly.

It has one preamp used like other hybrid amps and another one for the phase inverter, which is basically part of the poweramp. The preamp is all digital.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
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www.SanctityStudios.com
#28
Between those 2 choices the Spider Valve, for the all-tube power amp section and the really nice, full-sounding reverb and built-in chromatic tuner and noise suppressor. I had the 112, and the cons were:

1. Distorted models didn't sound very good - If I plug a BOSS DS-1 into a tube amp, it sounds much more pleasing and much more "rock and roll" than any of the spider valve higher-gain models sound.

2. The FX suck - like you can't just do chorus, you have to have chorus+flange, so like I can't play the intro to Metallica - Sanitarium, with a nice Clean+Chorus. The delays aren't good either. But to be fair the noise suppression and reverb sound good.

Of the two choices, spider valve, but I think for the money you're going to spend, I'd rather see you get a used Marshall JCM combo, and buy like a BOSS ME-20 or ME-50 or a POD or something to get your all-in-one FX, but all much higher quality. Plus, if you later don't like either the amp OR the FX, you can resell one without having to dump your entire rig. Take it from me, I had a Spider Valve 112, and I sold it to put the money towards my Mesa.

Plus, and this is important for everyone to remember when they start getting into "better" gear - stuff like Line 6 and Valvetronix/XL has really bad resale value, whereas a 20-year old JCM 800 or JCM 900 or Mesa combo or something like that basically reaches a certain price level and then just stays there for years, so you can buy used and then sell it again down the road, and not lose much or any money.
#29
Quote by Horlicks
*Facepalm*

Sigh.

Quote by MortifiedLizard
What? The Spider Valve has a tube power amp. It. Is. A. Hybrid.


Thanks for clearing that up mortifiedlizard.
Signatures are overrated.
#30
okay so it seems that the spider valve wins out of those 2...but everyone doesnt quite see my reasoning in it so i should just get the Bugera..
well to clear that up i have in fact considered just getting the Bugera straight away obviously since its what im craving atm..the problem is with getting a half stack now is that i wont have great portability & it wont be easy to just casually bring it with me everywhere i go whereas if im gigging a lot of venues will have their own cabs there already so ive just gotta take the head.
Then theres the problem with volume for practice at home since it probably wouldnt be feasable to turn it up even halfway as it would quite literally blow my brains out against the wall (or atleast thats what ive heard)..& i also feel that i would be wasting the amp just playin it mostly at home for 6 months since it wont see too much gigging action until the end of the year..& then theres the reliability issues which ive heard of & id want that sort of investment to last for quite a while without too many problems so i thought that i may as well wait for the second batch which may have solved some of the complaints about them...

but anyways, say i do get the Bugera now could anyone recommend me some good budget 2x12 cabinets as im definitely not going to be able to use a 4x12 cab for home practice or be bothered to lug it around to my mates place for a jam...
also in that case do attenuators suck a lot of tone? i spotted one on ebay for real cheap (about $20) so would that be decent enough or is it just a piece of junk?
#31
Dedicated metal amps like Bugeras and 5150/6505s usually sound good at low volume because most, if not all, the gain comes from the preamp. This means you don't have to turn up loud to get the best tones, but obviously it sounds somewhat better at higher volumes due to speaker movement etc.

And every new net of amps have reliability problems but I have only heard of 2 or 3 problems with Bugera out of the thousands that have already been sold.

I believe avatar cabs are good for 2x12, or so I hear... http://www.avatarspeakers.com/
#32
Quote by ultimate_syn

also in that case do attenuators suck a lot of tone? i spotted one on ebay for real cheap (about $20) so would that be decent enough or is it just a piece of junk?


I'm pretty sure that's not an attenuator. It's a volume box, isn't it? That you put in the effects loop? It's good for non-master volume amps with effect loops, because it's basically a master volume knob, but it's definitely not an attenuator.
Quote by Lunchbox362
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#33
Why not get a Bugera combo? Cheaper all up.
For those who care.
Current Gear
Cort Zenox Z42
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#34
i realise that it would make more sense to just get the combo but i would really prefer the head..it just looks way cooler (you know you can see the tubes glowing & all) & ive always wanted to shred on my own halfstack it would also give me the nice option of just bringing the head to gigs & using other peoples cab set-ups so that i may not even need a really nice 4x12 for a while..

alright Fama yer its the volume box thing but wouldnt it work in the same sort of way like it says so that i can crank the tubes but keep the volume controlled? because if thats the case then that would probably do the job for me

oh & this may be a completely & utterly stupid idea with plenty of 'what are you on about?'s to follow, but would i be wrong in thinking that if i did buy the spider valve & then the Bugera in the future then i could just plug the speaker cable from the spider valve into my Bugera head & use the 2 V30s as a 2x12 cab for that?
or if i wanted to save even more money i could just get the Vox AD50VT2-XL & do that
cuz if the attenuator thing isnt gonna work then i think ill do something like that...
Last edited by ultimate_syn at May 31, 2008,
#35
Quote by ultimate_syn
i realise that it would make more sense to just get the combo but i would really prefer the head..it just looks way cooler (you know you can see the tubes glowing & all) & ive always wanted to shred on my own halfstack it would also give me the nice option of just bringing the head to gigs & using other peoples cab set-ups so that i may not even need a really nice 4x12 for a while..

alright Fama yer its the volume box thing but wouldnt it work in the same sort of way like it says so that i can crank the tubes but keep the volume controlled? because if thats the case then that would probably do the job for me

oh & this may be a completely & utterly stupid idea with plenty of 'what are you on about?'s to follow, but would i be wrong in thinking that if i did buy the spider valve & then the Bugera in the future then i could just plug the speaker cable from the spider valve into my Bugera head & use the 2 V30s as a 2x12 cab for that?
or if i wanted to save even more money i could just get the Vox AD50VT2-XL & do that
cuz if the attenuator thing isnt gonna work then i think ill do something like that...


Just buy the Bugera and a cab with V30s in.
#36
Spider Valve delivers 12 channels of amp modeling - combined with several flavors of built-in modulation, delay and reverb – driven by an all tube, all Bogner amplification design boasting 6L6 power tubes, 12AX7 preamp tubes and premium Celestion® Vintage 30 speakers
#37
Quote by ultimate_syn
i realise that it would make more sense to just get the combo but i would really prefer the head..it just looks way cooler (you know you can see the tubes glowing & all) & ive always wanted to shred on my own halfstack it would also give me the nice option of just bringing the head to gigs & using other peoples cab set-ups so that i may not even need a really nice 4x12 for a while..

alright Fama yer its the volume box thing but wouldnt it work in the same sort of way like it says so that i can crank the tubes but keep the volume controlled? because if thats the case then that would probably do the job for me

oh & this may be a completely & utterly stupid idea with plenty of 'what are you on about?'s to follow, but would i be wrong in thinking that if i did buy the spider valve & then the Bugera in the future then i could just plug the speaker cable from the spider valve into my Bugera head & use the 2 V30s as a 2x12 cab for that?
or if i wanted to save even more money i could just get the Vox AD50VT2-XL & do that
cuz if the attenuator thing isnt gonna work then i think ill do something like that...


Ok... so you're willing to sacrifice sound quality for looks? Wow thats the last thing i look at when I'm looking at amps.
#39
Quote by schnazzybo
Spider Valve delivers 12 channels of amp modeling - combined with several flavors of built-in modulation, delay and reverb – driven by an all tube, all Bogner amplification design boasting 6L6 power tubes, 12AX7 preamp tubes and premium Celestion® Vintage 30 speakers



and what was that for?
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http://groups.ultimate-guitar.com/koalabears/

Quote by Irnmaiden4life
why didnt you just play like crap?
if you need help with that, ask Vincent745



Quote by imgooley
Awe, so cute...

How old are you?



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Old enough to yell rape.
#40
Quote by .arkness:.
Why not get a Bugera combo? Cheaper all up.


Hecks yes! And still plenty epic too

And besides with the Spider valve, if it is indeed for bedroom practice, you will not be able to turn it up enough for the tube power amp section to make any difference in your tone. It will sound just like an ordinary Spider
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Last edited by Bloodshed at Jun 10, 2008,
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