#1
So I decided to venture into the world of EADEAE tuning, which is fantastic I must say

But I'm a little lost on how to know what notes I 'can use' theory wise...I read I can use I, IV, and V but is that all? Can't be...what else is usable for this and does anyone have some example songs I can look (without a capo right now).

/vague?
#2
You can use all of the notes... I mean, the tuning doesn't change the music, it just changes the instrument and what is accessible from a given position.
Quote by les_kris
Corwinoid is God
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Member #3 of the Corwinoid Fan Club
#3
What Corwinoid said.

You can use exactly the same notes as you normally do, difference being that they will be in a different position.
#4
Hopefully you set your neck and intonation or had a pro set it for you after changing the tuning. So many people tune their guitars into alt. tunings and dont set them up.
As far as songs in that tuning i have no idea.

http://www.fretnotguitarrepair.com/intonation.htm
This link will explain why you cant just go changing the strings around a without proper setup.

If you already know this stuff tell the next guy you see that sounds like **** tuned in drop c with a standard tuning setup that doesnt undertand this fact.
#5
Are you saying that you need your guitar set up differently for specific tunings? Because I've never heard that before and I've read a lot of threads about tuning, and also that link you provided talks about set up in general, it doesn't say anything about another tuning being affected by a normal set up.

But anyways, what are some popular songs in EADEAE tuning?
GANGSTAAAAAAS!

Chika! Chika! YEAH YEAH!

Quote by SG6578
That is regular hard maple...I'm 100% f*cking d*ck licking sure.
#6
Quote by Liam.
So I decided to venture into the world of EADEAE tuning, which is fantastic I must say

But I'm a little lost on how to know what notes I 'can use' theory wise...I read I can use I, IV, and V but is that all? Can't be...what else is usable for this and does anyone have some example songs I can look (without a capo right now).

/vague?

I'll have to agree with Corwinoid here; I'm not really sure what you're asking at all.
#7
Quote by Third3ye
Are you saying that you need your guitar set up differently for specific tunings? Because I've never heard that before and I've read a lot of threads about tuning, and also that link you provided talks about set up in general, it doesn't say anything about another tuning being affected by a normal set up.

But anyways, what are some popular songs in EADEAE tuning?

You might have read that link but you obviously dont understand it yet read it again. If its set up for one tuning chaning the tuning requires a new setup as it is no longer set up correctly. Any change in tuning changes the force of the strings on the neck. If its carefully set up within thousands of an inch dont you think down tuning would change that measurement? If the strings are adjusted to have an exact length so all the frets paly in tune and you change the open tuning note do you think every fret will be in tune at that string length? The answer is NO.
#8
I think you're a little over-zealous about the issue... if you dedicate a guitar to a specific tuning then by all means it should be adjusted for that tuning. Otherwise, it's really not a big deal, unless you're dropping the tension significantly (ie. all strings down a third or something). Guitars are incredibly fickle instruments, and unless they're significantly off, you won't notice an adjustment after a few days anyway.

A lot of things matter there, changing your strings (especially types, manufacturers, gauge, etc). The weather matters. Ambient temperature, neck temperature from the friction of your fingers (I'm not kidding either), ambient humidity, how wet/oily your fingers are, how much dead skin is in the strings. All of that crap throws the intonation of a guitar off by as much as the effect of retuning a string by a whole tone.

Guitars just don't stay in tune up the neck anyway. Learn to love it.
Quote by les_kris
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#9
Your missing my point which was to make unaware people aware of this. You seem to already undertand this but the ts doesnt. Tuning down to Drop C or EADEAE are major changes and will effect the intonation greatly if you cant hear that check your ears. As long as you understand the compromise you are making go ahead but at least understand what the consequences are and make an informed choice. If its drop D from standard I wouldnt change anything but i dont go changing my guitars any more than that without a dedicated setup. You can do whatever you want with yours.

By the way what math did you use to figure dead skin on the string and ambient tempreture effect the intonation by as much as a whole tone change? I dont disagree that they are factors but you shouldn't make up facts. You could just state that they also effect the intonation you dont have to make up how much they effect it.
#10
Please, EADEAE is not a "major" change in tuning. Certainly not enough to have a great effect on intonation other than maybe on the third string. I guarantee the pitch shift as you move on the neck will be more greatly affected by variations in how much pressure you put on the strings, or push them out of line, than any difference made by relaxing what's already the least tense string on the instrument, and offsetting it again on a neighboring string. Pay attention to the actual tuning used here, it's standard, he's changing two strings, with offsetting tensions. The entire instrument will not need to be reset.

Effects in intonation by tuning the entire set of strings by as much as a third are on the order of a dozen cents or so, barely even in the audible range for most people (well into it for musicians, however). But only when juxtaposed. Even most musicians can't tell the difference on a melodic octave that's off by less than an 1/8th of a semitone.

That is to say that a change of a third on a string has an intonation affect at the octave of roughly 12% of a semitone... as a rough guess.

Let me clarify what I said, also, since I'm not sure you understood what I meant. When I said "by as much as a whole tone change", I meant it would have an equivalent effect to retuning a given single string by a whole tone, on intonation. I'm not really sure if you grok this conceptually or not, or if you just think you know a lot more than you do, but the "math" behind that would be incredibly complex. I'm stating this based on about 15 years concert experience with instruments that don't have adjustable intonation, and cost more than your car. (Actually, the math behind ambient temperature effect on neck intonation wouldn't be that bad, but I'm way the **** too lazy to do any real physics to appease you either... so whatever... if you understood the math involved you wouldn't have even asked anyway). I'm pretty much going off that experience to say "hey, dead strings intonate worse in bad weather than set strings do." Which, I mean, seems pretty logical without any prerequisite at all... the estimation isn't exact (and can't be) for a variety of reasons, not the least of which being that I'm a lazy bastard.

No offense or anything, but I get the impression you understand that this is an issue, but don't actually understand the problem at all. There seems to be a lot of lucidity in what you say, but at the same time it's mixed with a fair bit of absurdity. Things like assuming differences in string tension on the neck have a tangible effect on intonation are kind of absurd, especially on an electric guitar which is capable of being set up somewhat "on the fly". These instruments are slung at low tension already, compared to their acoustic brethren, and the neck is set and trussed. String tension doesn't greatly change the geometry of the neck. It does change the scale length, but for a completely different reason -- the tension on the claw springs is changed, causing the bridge to shift position. Fixed bridges have a similar issue with soundboard compression (or deformation), or saddle compression, depending on the construction.
Quote by les_kris
Corwinoid is God
I'm not even God-like... I've officially usurped the Almighty's throne.
Click here to worship me.

Member #3 of the Corwinoid Fan Club
#11
Sorry I could not read the unsurmountable wall of text.
Why are you trying to argue with me??
Your point seems to be i should not tell this guy about intonation and he shouldnt concern himself with how his instrument works because its not that precise??? I dont get you man i think you just like to argue.
Last edited by /-\liceNChains at May 29, 2008,
#12
Sorry, let me try this with small words.
Quote by Corwinoid
I think you're a little over-zealous about the issue...

Quote by /-\liceNChains
You might have read that link but you obviously dont understand it yet read it again.
No. It's you. You're the guy who doesn't "get it". Try not being a ****ing asshole when you present what you have to say, and people won't call you out for it.

e; there's a difference between being helpful, and being a smarmy prick.
Quote by les_kris
Corwinoid is God
I'm not even God-like... I've officially usurped the Almighty's throne.
Click here to worship me.

Member #3 of the Corwinoid Fan Club
#13
Things like assuming differences in string tension on the neck have a tangible effect on intonation are kind of absurd, especially on an electric guitar which is capable of being set up somewhat "on the fly". These instruments are slung at low tension already, compared to their acoustic brethren, and the neck is set and trussed. String tension doesn't greatly change the geometry of the neck.

Wow your so smart and im a asshole. I thought string tension did greatly effect the geometry of the neck. Thanks for clearing that up for me. You dont sound like a pompous ass at all in your posts. Your so imformative and helpfull unlike me.
#14
^Yeah. Really man, you sound like you're just envious of people who take time to play around with their tuning, so you try to burst their bubble by throwing out this info that I've never heard anyone else say. I've read articles in Guitar Player about changing your tuning and none of them mention the need to correct the intonation. I play around with the tuning all the time and I check the intonation. It's fine. Taking the time to change the set up for a specific tuning would be much more limiting than the slightly off-tune note (if it's of tune at all.)
GANGSTAAAAAAS!

Chika! Chika! YEAH YEAH!

Quote by SG6578
That is regular hard maple...I'm 100% f*cking d*ck licking sure.
#15
Quote by Liam.
So I decided to venture into the world of EADEAE tuning, which is fantastic I must say

But I'm a little lost on how to know what notes I 'can use' theory wise...I read I can use I, IV, and V but is that all? Can't be...what else is usable for this and does anyone have some example songs I can look (without a capo right now).

/vague?



Well, the theory doesn't change. The only thing that changes is where the notes are on the fretboard.

The thing you read about the I IV V thing, isn't that those are the only chords you can use, it just that those are easily accessible. If Your guitar is tuned to a major chord (open tunings often are), you just lay you finger across all 6 strings at any fret to produce a Major chord.

all open = I chord
all 5th fret = IV chord
all 7th fret = V chord

Your tuning is a little different. If you really want to utilize all of the possible chords, you will have to spend some time working them out. Or you could just use your ear and play something that sounds good.
Last edited by GuitarMunky at May 29, 2008,
#16
Quote by Third3ye
^Yeah. Really man, you sound like you're just envious of people who take time to play around with their tuning, so you try to burst their bubble by throwing out this info that I've never heard anyone else say. I've read articles in Guitar Player about changing your tuning and none of them mention the need to correct the intonation. I play around with the tuning all the time and I check the intonation. It's fine. Taking the time to change the set up for a specific tuning would be much more limiting than the slightly off-tune note (if it's of tune at all.)

Im not envious nor do i have a problem with trying different tunings at all but I have dedicated setups for my alt tunings that i use frequently. If im going to play a tuning i will take less than 1 hour and set up my guitar for it. You pricks act like its rocket science to do a setup. Do whatever the **** you guys want I just tried to explain what happens to your setup when you **** with your tuning. Repel any knowlege of guitar setup if you want to that doesn't mean it doesn't exsist.