#1
I just got into rather deeply into it and jazz fusion and stuff, but I don't really get some stuff. I know about what modes/scales you can play over a particular, but i don't get chord substitution and stuff like that, and how to write and put together chords and whatnot. For example: Thelonious Monk, where does he get the chords he plays.
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#2
Quote by Psychedelico
I just got into rather deeply into it and jazz fusion and stuff, but I don't really get some stuff. I know about what modes/scales you can play over a particular, but i don't get chord substitution and stuff like that, and how to write and put together chords and whatnot. For example: Thelonious Monk, where does he get the chords he plays.
when writing some progressions you can substitute some chords and play another chord instead. The only one I can think of at the moment is a tritone substitution, where instead of playing the usually 7 chord, you would play the 7 chord thats a tritone above (or below) the original chord.

I'll do some research and come back with more examples..
#4
I will try to find this book, but chances are I won't be able to as I live in India and selection is limited.
Quote by SlinkyBlue
I remember when I was really young, I had a wet dream in which i was being dragged along an urban countryside by a pickup truck.

Don't ask me I have no idea how the hell it happened.




To Me:

Quote by Son.Of.TheViper

I love you
#5
Okay, after watching this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0VEx8f1n5g , gyspy jazz likes to substitute vi chords for VI7 chords, and the like to substitute I chords for iii chords (and they like to add alot of #5's for some strange reason...). And ofcourse the tritone substitution (but everyone that writes jazz does that).
#6
For example: Thelonious Monk, where does he get the chords he plays.

Ahhh..the eternal question....If you study "straight - no chaser" you may get a very slight insight into Monks thinking...his work alone could be a special study in jazz

as far as substitutions and all...its beyond basic theory but you need a solid base to at least have a reference point to begin to understand it.

its like thinking in several keys at once...instead of playing an A7 to D Maj 7 change, for example..your going to sub: biii7-bVI7..bII7..Imaj7 (f min7-Bb7-Eb7-Dmaj7)..your using a flat fifth ( Eb7) back cycle to get to the Dmaj7 chord...

all of this takes time to absorbe into your playing ... be patient and take little bits at a time...

wolf
#7
In Monk's music, he plays a lot of dissonant chords.

What they are, I don't know, I'm just starting to learn Jazz myself, but you can hear the dissonance...

Blue Monk is probably a good starting place, because it's a 12 bar blues song...
#8
Quote by imgooley
In Monk's music, he plays a lot of dissonant chords.

What they are, I don't know, I'm just starting to learn Jazz myself, but you can hear the dissonance...



Monk often plays chords like this

Gm7 --> a bb d
Fmaj --> e f a
A7 --> g b# c# f

but these are not for a guitar
#9
Quote by Psychedelico
I just got into rather deeply into it and jazz fusion and stuff, but I don't really get some stuff. I know about what modes/scales you can play over a particular, but i don't get chord substitution and stuff like that, and how to write and put together chords and whatnot. For example: Thelonious Monk, where does he get the chords he plays.

The thing about jazz is that so much of it is based on the ii-V-I, ii-V-i, and ii-V progressions. Often, jazz tunes will have passages where the chord changes are nothing but ii-V's in different keys. For example, you might see a set of changes like this:
Dm7 / G7 | Cm7 / F7 | Bbm7 / Eb7 | Abm7 / Db7 | Cmaj7
What is happening is this: the first measure is a ii-V in C major, the second measure is a ii-V in Bb major, the third measure is a ii-V in Ab major, and the fourth measure is a ii-V in Gb major, even though that key is hardly ever used because of the difficulty of notating it properly. The G7 wants to resolve to a Cmaj7, but instead we modulate to a new key a whole step down, and we do the same thing for the next 3 measures. The reason why we can finish the passage with a Cmaj7, even though the Db7 that precedes it is in a different key, is because Db7 is the tritone substitution of G7, which is the V7 of Cmaj7. The way that tritone substitutions work is this: a dominant 7 chord's most important notes are the 3 and b7, which are a tritone apart. If we substitute for that chord another dominant 7 chord whose root is a tritone away from the original root, the 3 and b7 of the new chord are the b7 and 3, respectively, of the old chord. The new chord has the same function as the old chord because of this. This is just the beginning of the bottomless pit that is jazz. And I would highly recommend getting the Mark Levine Jazz Theory Book. You should be able to find a distributor online that will ship to India.

Having never studied Monk's music, I can't say anything about it.

Here's a link to an article on chord subs that helped me out when I was first learning about them:
http://www.guitarnoise.com/article.php?id=538
known as Jeff when it really matters
#10
Chord substitution is very broad. Learning about Chord Families is a good place to start.

Major chord families
Minor chord families

If you know about Tritone and Diatonic substitution, that's great, if not, don't worry about it. Learn chord families first.

Basically, if you have a simple Maj 7 chord, you can sub that for another major type chord (or if you're recording or overdubbing you can create a nice harmony). There are lots to chose from in the 'Major chord family', this is what we're working with here for starters ok? Here are some examples:

Maj 9
Maj 13

The jazzy ones are thse:
Sixth chords
6/9 chords.

Similarly, you use the same method for a minor chord (Minor chord families). So over a simple Min 7 chord you can sub (or play over the top) some of these.

Min 6
Min 9
Min 11
Min 13

Basic chord substitution usually starts with the diatonic chords from the major scale:

I = III = VI
II = V = VII

If you analyse these chords groupings you'll see that they contain similar notes. A perfect example is C and Amin7 (you only have remove one finger to change from one chord to the other). I = VI in the key of C major.
#11
What Freepower said. Levine's book owns.


Post #9 is cool.
Post #10 forgot seventh chords. Though depending on the context the chords inside the same family are interchangeable.

Gm7 --> a bb d
Fmaj --> e f a
A7 --> g b# c# f

but these are not for a guitar


I don't see why not. And you've got your names wrong.

The first chord is a shell voicing for a min9. G Bb D F A <- G min9.

The second chord is a voicing of a major seventh chord omitting the fifth.

The last chord is not A7. My chord naming chops aren't big enough to actually tell you what chord it is but that B# indicates a #9, so if anything it might be A7add9, or something similar. I'm not sure though.


All of those can be voiced on guitar.
#12
I think what he was saying is that monk would play those notes at the point in the song where the indicated harmony was _.

The thing with substitution is that you have to stop thinking about specifically fulfilling written chords. When you have a key centre (the duration of a ii-V-I or a vamped chord) what you really have is a collection of pitches, any or all of which (with, of course, some limitations and stylistic conventions) can really be played. Of course, if you don't know how to play it specifically, you'll sound to ambiguous. It's important to observe the movement in ii-V-Is; the 7s dropping to the 3 of the next chord: If you have it, you can really play anything else around it.

But for now, this is to much. First thing you have to do is build a collection of good listening, listen and transcribe. And then find a good teacher.
#13
Quote by titopuente
The thing about jazz is that so much of it is based on the ii-V-I, ii-V-i, and ii-V progressions


That's pretty much the core of it.

To the OP: what you're looking for are books that cover Reharmonization. Levine's
book has good material on the topic, although any Jazz theory book pretty much
would have to cover it.
#15
Quote by confusius
What Freepower said. Levine's book owns.
I don't see why not. And you've got your names wrong.

The first chord is a shell voicing for a min9. G Bb D F A <- G min9.

The second chord is a voicing of a major seventh chord omitting the fifth.

The last chord is not A7. My chord naming chops aren't big enough to actually tell you what chord it is but that B# indicates a #9, so if anything it might be A7add9, or something similar. I'm not sure though.
All of those can be voiced on guitar.


I can't see I'm wrong:

Gm7 --> a bb d
Fmaj --> e f a
A7 --> g b# c# f

You can name a chord by the tones it contains - but it's too tricky. I prefer name chords by their function. An experienced musician will see all 9th, 11th, alt at a glance. Why put this unnecessary info into chord's name?

a bb d is exactly Gm7 if played over progression with Gm7, it is Bbmaj if played over Bbmaj, it is Em7b5 if a harmony is Em7b5 etc

g b# c# f - is indeed A7 chord, try play it on a piano, you'll probably like it.

By 'these are not for a guitar' I mean that similar chords can't be played all over the neck. Try Abm7, Am7, Bbm7 etc and you'll be convinced.
#16
Well yes, I see your point. But you know what I meant. The way you were writing that you seemed to be saying those chords are relegated to the piano when it's possible to play different voicings on the guitar. Not the same chord, but then again, there are chords a guitar can play that don't sound a good on the piano. Different instruments completely to be honest.

I also hadn't noticed you were naming chords by function. (my bad. )


So, I back down.