#1
WHY, for the love of god, do middle age guys go around complaining that any form of new music is wrong and the only 'correct' music was the 70s and 80s. my music must be wrong because it doesnt have 'feel', because 'ac/dc has simple groove'. well you know what, bach didnt have 'groove', he didnt have 'feel', and he sure as hell was around before ac/dc was around. lets not forget that angus young had no formal training, while all the composers through the highlights of classic studied theory like none other, works like fux' study of counterpoint for example. would that mean that, god forbid, ac/dc isnt 'real music' because it refuses to conform to past evolution? considering i base more off of classical music than i do of this 'ignorant rock and roll crap', would that not mean that i am right?

lets not mention that i SHOULD play this genre or that genre, because its good, or play certain types of music because its what everone else likes. well, everyone likes mcdonalds but its the worst thing you can ever eat. im sorry, i thought music was art, and art was self expression, not a popularity gimick. im told i should jam with my old guitarist, even though i hate working with him and his songs sound so empty and depressing and lack any form due to lack of theoretical knowledge. sorry if i think randomly mixing locrian and aeolian together over and over in very slightly different straight 16ths riffs is dissonant and boring.. i thought i should do what *I* like in music.

no seriously, what the **** is with people and music now, im not even gonna get started with american idol.


and before someone moves/locks this, no i do intend a valid discussion to come out of this, the topic 'why the decline for respect of art', not 'lets bash peole who are different'. so STAY ON TOPIC.


Discuss..
#2
I criticize a lot of music because a vast majority of popular music today lacks originality and artistic integrity. So much music today is just rehashing stuff that's already been made. My sister listens to a lot of stuff thats "really popular" (what you'd see on VH1 and MTV, etc), and there is nothing new. I can predict exactly what is going to happen next. The same goes for many "rock bands" these days, from emo to metal. I've already heard it, and don't really feel like hearing it again.

These days it seems like more music is made by producers than the actual musicians, they're just playing what the producer says will make the most money.

And i would like to put it out there that Bach certainly did have groove and feel. You just gotta find the right stuff that you dig on. I know I've listened to Handel's "Messiah" straight through at least 10 times, cause I think that **** ****in' grooves man.
#3
Every generation is going to think their music is best, its the human nature. They grew up with it, and it's what they know, so they're going to think its the superior to everything else.

You're right, art is expression, but lets face it. Most of todays music isn't even expression. Most bands just start to "be part of the scene." Back in the 70's/80's, bands like Zeppelin, Floyd, AC/DC, they all did it just to play something nobody else had heard. Thats why there was such controversy with getting their sound out, because it had to grow on people. Music today, all sounds the same for the most part. All the main stream music is stuck with basic chords, and hardly any rhythm or lyrical needs what-so-ever. Yet, I still listen to it, and it is catchy.

But bringing us back to the word opinion. Everybody has one, it's to each his own.
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#5
im with you on that,art IS self expression,and it is viewed in many ways, f*** those who
judge based on looks, my music is very diverse,i usuallly dont conform to what others want me to,because im sick of hearing about all the new ****,some of the mainstream,i do like,im a die hard fan of bullet for my valentine,becasue the music speaks to me in a sense, the lyrics flow,and they soothe,and the guitars pull off some sick ****. also,for those of you who want to call certain bands EMO and stuff like that,some people like it,and dont judge based off looks

one quote from a great musical movie(its not A musical,but its music based)

off from August Rush "The Music Is All Around You, All You Have To Do Is Listen"
#6
If you read into it, you'll understand how this sums up a lot of my opinion on lots of mainstream music today:

“The basic difference between what I am doing now and the rock guitarists that I see, is that they start playing the blues and they work from a particular position. They play everything based on these patterns. What I try to do is make music up in my head, and try to find patterns to accommodate what’s in my mind. The rock players are trying to make music from forms. I am looking to find forms for my music.” - Barney Kessel, Jazz Guitarist
#7
Yo cheese cake is where its at haha off topic. I understand what your saying. When i play guitar its always hey thats fast and cool, but it doesnt have to be fast it can be just a couple chords, or it can just be a repeating thing through the whole song. Older people usually dont understand how music is evolving. We went from Sabbath being the heaviest now to like Cannibal Corpse. I cant even imagine what music will be like when im older. But enough about music. How bout that football stuff
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#8
That rant was deceptively long...for a second there I thought you weren't going to write something generic.

Music is progressive, it's quite simple really. Middle aged guys grew up on their music and between then and now, music has evolved, thus they don't understand it. How is that so hard to grasp? Unless of course you're taking the polar opposite stance to them, trying to convince them that their music isn't right. Which would, in a round-a-bout way make you the very thing you hate. Music is music, everyone loves different types and no amount of whinging is going to change that, OK?

On a side note, how did you come to figure that Bach had no feel? His compositions were and for that matter still are awe inspiring simply because of the natural feel of the music that was produced. Just a tip for you; A little research goes a long way when making a meaningless argument
#9
#10
to anyone that has a problem with the idea that someone older can't relate to their music:

In most cases, its not an issue of understanding, its more an issue of not being able to relate to something written by a teenager. its not to dissimilar to how some of you teenagers might feel about listening to childrens songs..... its not aimed at you and you probably wouldn't want to get caught listening to it by your peers.

You will all be middle aged (hopefully), and chances are you will feel the same.

personally I dig some of the music coming out now, but some of it, say screamo for instance, just doesnt do anything for me. I have no parents to annoy or rebel against, and I generally don't enjoy being yelled or screamed it, so its not something I want to listen to..... even if there are some cool guitar parts.


anyway to each their own.
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jun 2, 2008,
#11
Quote by GuitarMunky
The reason they dont "grasp" it, is because they don't relate to it. You will all be middle aged (hopefully), and chances are you will feel the same.


Dude...read my post again, and adjust your reply accordingly. I meant that he doesn't grasp the fact that older guys can't/don't relate to his music.

Sheesh
#12
What I think some people fail to recognize is that progress in music is based on our ears becoming accustomed to new sounds and the line between consonance and dissonance moving and being blurred. If Monk somehow found a way to travel back in time to the 1600s and play his music for people, there would be mass hysteria. If you think in those terms, you recognize that to ears used to hearing rock 'n roll from the '50s, something like The Mars Volta must seem like nothing but noise (though, granted, some of it is). The '70s and '80s may not seem like TOO long ago in the grand scheme of things, but there is definitely a noticeable difference in what is palatable in music now as opposed to what was acceptable then. Wait another 20 years and see how much then-modern music you find yourself drawn to as you're drawn to today's music.

As for Bach, check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miB8p0Kgv5c
This will change your opinion if you think there's no feel.
known as Jeff when it really matters
#13
Quote by bangoodcharlote
Please delete this thread and take your argument to one of the following forums:


i have decent respect for you from your posts, but no this thread should not be deleted, it has nothing to do with genres, especially not punk or nu-metal. it has to do with the formation and expectations of modern musical COMPOSITION, which isnt that what 'musician talk' deals with, the COMPOSITION of new music?

and by 'feel' and 'groove' not being in older music, im more talking sarcastically at HIS terms for them. stravinsky's rites of spring has groove in it too, but if i performed it he would say it lacks feel and groove just because it doesnt have the simple kick - hat - snare - hat beat with a complementary guitar rhythm, because you cant bob your head 4 times to obvious accents. groove metal had some great contributions but when everyone expects groove to be ONLY like that, or only like another example (ac/dc) then there are problems with diversity.

and no i have nothing against ac/dc or any form of music (thats honest in intent), i have problems with people saying my music needs to be like their music. like their music so much go find a cover band.

what am i suppose to say to these people do they not get it or something?
#14
Quote by Sabaren
what am i suppose to say to these people do they not get it or something?
Yes. There will always be people who try to force their opinions on others.
#15
Quote by grampastumpy
Yes. There will always be people who try to force their opinions on others.


+1

thats really what it comes down to. better to just understand that, and deal with it by not letting it bother you.
#17
Quote by Tig Bitties
We went from Sabbath being the heaviest now to like Cannibal Corpse.


cannibal corpse aernt heavy they are just sick...lyrically.
for really heavy...errmm.....ask in the metal forum
for real sick see mayhem and burzum story :P

anyways, on topic:
no-one can stand my music for an extreme example my gran calls it 'devil music' still.
middle aged people i know like bands like malmsteen and stuff btw.

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#18
Quote by Sabaren
i have decent respect for you from your posts, but no this thread should not be deleted, it has nothing to do with genres, especially not punk or nu-metal. it has to do with the formation and expectations of modern musical COMPOSITION, which isnt that what 'musician talk' deals with, the COMPOSITION of new music?

and by 'feel' and 'groove' not being in older music, im more talking sarcastically at HIS terms for them. stravinsky's rites of spring has groove in it too, but if i performed it he would say it lacks feel and groove just because it doesnt have the simple kick - hat - snare - hat beat with a complementary guitar rhythm, because you cant bob your head 4 times to obvious accents. groove metal had some great contributions but when everyone expects groove to be ONLY like that, or only like another example (ac/dc) then there are problems with diversity.

and no i have nothing against ac/dc or any form of music (thats honest in intent), i have problems with people saying my music needs to be like their music. like their music so much go find a cover band.

what am i suppose to say to these people do they not get it or something?

BGC is right, this isn't a discussion...it's a rant. Take it to craigslist or something, they love crap like this.

And lay off the coffee.
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#19
Quote by metallicafan616
cannibal corpse aernt heavy they are just sick...lyrically.
for really heavy...errmm.....ask in the metal forum
for real sick see mayhem and burzum story :P

anyways, on topic:
no-one can stand my music for an extreme example my gran calls it 'devil music' still.
middle aged people i know like bands like malmsteen and stuff btw.


My family can't really stand my music cause they just don't understand it. And I just listen to jazz all day. So it even works backwards too.

Good thing they still support my being in music school though.
#21
Quote by Agent-Orange
well im 17 and i say todays music sucks nuts so....
most of it anyways...
especially rap...
Yeah, all I listen to these days is Gregorian Chant. Nothing like the classics.
Last edited by grampastumpy at Jun 3, 2008,
#22
Well, it's been said , but, it's all taste. not everyone will like the new stuff for the reason that it's NEW and it means that they themselves aren't the main anymore. Parents in the '70s said Elvis was the only REAL music, the sixties parent's said that anything not the Rat Pack was just noise and so on. The point is that people grow complacent in what's around them and so whatever is new (or different, as the Jazz man^ mentioned) will be resented.


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#23
Meh.

Being pretentious about music is just about the lamest, most pointless thing anyone could ever do.
#25
Quote by Guitar_Theory
But there is a difference between being pretentious and having standards.

Shouldn't you go into every song with the intent to enjoy it? If you listen for the faults rather than the highlights, you'll be wasting a whole hell of a lot of time. I recognize that some material doesn't deserve to exist at all, but people tend to write off bands entirely when they hear some piece of popcorn on the radio and decide that those musicians have never written anything of merit.
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#27
If you think "Today's Music" sucks, then you're only looking at the mainstream, popular trends in music. I hate to say it, but the average person just wants to hear a song that sounds familiar even on the first listen, and if they like it, they want to hear it again and again until they memorize all the words. Popular music may not be what you want it to be, but ranting about it changes nothing. Just let it go, it's only a small portion of music that exists.

But really, the music of today is the best music ever. Because we have all the music from the past, plus what we've come up with since then.

Edit: sorry to bump to pointless rant thread, but really, I can't stand seeing people talk about the current times so pessimistically. Really, we have great stuff, and it's more available and easier to find than it was in the 70's. So stop taking it for granted and go find today's good music.
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#28
Quote by Third3ye
I hate to say it, but the average person just wants to hear a song that sounds familiar even on the first listen, and if they like it, they want to hear it again and again until they memorize all the words. .


i dont agree... ive heard listened to the same song many times and still didnt like it...



Quote by grampastumpy
Yeah, all I listen to these days is Gregorian Chant. Nothing like the classics.


thats pretty interesting.
#29
i've been watching this from afar, seeing it fester and boil and i'd like to throw my 2 cents in.

everyone will have nostalgia for what they grew up with, thats just the way it works. in my opinion, some music today sucks (more and more of what i hear on the radio i just don't like) but i will say there are still some good tunes coming out despite what the record company is doing. but this was true for every other generation. i know people older than me that think metal just sucks, fine thats their opinion, everyone is entitled to their own. just rest assured that if someone thinks everything from a certain genre is awful it's just them being closeminded.

it's the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it.

and it's these old people that won't even entertain the thought. my mom, just loathes hard rock/heavy metal. i've played her some of my stuff on my cd and she says "son thats just awful what the hell" then i'll sit down and play rearranged versions on an acoustic and she says "thats beautiful did you write that?" then i'll tell her 'its the same exact song you just said you hated'

the point of this being, she can't look past the distortion and hear it for what it is, just what she wants it to be. a lot of people are like this, its unfortunate but true.

edit: as an artist you have 2 ways of looking at it
you can tell the person "well this is my personal preference as a musician and as a musician and an artist this says and represents best what i can relate to"

and if they insist on demeaning your preference you can always start talking smack about their music if you really want to drop to their level.
Last edited by z4twenny at Jun 4, 2008,
#31
Quote by Guitar_Theory
I criticize a lot of music because a vast majority of popular music today lacks originality and artistic integrity. So much music today is just rehashing stuff that's already been made. My sister listens to a lot of stuff thats "really popular" (what you'd see on VH1 and MTV, etc), and there is nothing new. I can predict exactly what is going to happen next. The same goes for many "rock bands" these days, from emo to metal. I've already heard it, and don't really feel like hearing it again.



I totally agree! It seems people today don't have a mind of their own.
If ur ears aint ringin...ur doin it wrong

#33
i think the record companies do it on purpose lol

every 7 years it seems style and music goes from garbage to epic...
i think they are just tonin things down a little bit from the 90's period...

something epic is probably gonna happen soon in the music industry...

who knows it could be me or you...
#34
^ it'll be me. unfortunately no one will know it until 2190 when an ancient link to my dmusic site will be discovered and millions will swoon over the electronic soundscapes of brutality i will create.
#36
Quote by Bornlivedie UK
There is good music being made today... Just don't look for it in the mainstream.


Exactly. While I listen to the radio when I'm at work, any bands i really pursue on my own I hear about through word of mouth, generally anymore from other music majors, and we all have pretty similar beliefs about the whole "I've heard that before" thing so I trust many of my friends' judgments.