#1
It has dawned on me that trying to learn where every key for the minor pent (and blues) falls on the fretboard is really difficult. yeah i could learn caged again to remind me of shapes. but at this point im prefering to learn where the notes sit, simply by figuring it out with intervals.

so would be ok just to learn Em and all its notes on the fretboard first? then move onto say Cm once i can improvise well with Em.

i know that limites me to one key, but isnt Em like the most common Rock/Blues key?
#2
Um... the shapes are identical, you just have to know where the notes are on the low E.
#3
Yeah, but whats this caged system that everyone goes on about? Anyone have a link to anywhere that will explain it?
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#4
Newb jk

well not really

all i do and it works well
is you find the root note of a progression
like where it tends to come back to

like in jimi hendrix's hey joe(which is Extremely easy to improvise over)
the progression keeps going back to E
so you simply would start the Minor Pent on a E note Normally in this case the 12th fret
and improvise around that
you can even use the Minor pent on Major Progressions
you just have to solo in the Relative 7th of the Progression
which i use alot in Worship bands

so if your playing a G maj (i think) you would play in Em
#5
Quote by turtlewax
Yeah, but whats this caged system that everyone goes on about? Anyone have a link to anywhere that will explain it?

its what you tell girls you'll teach them so you get leid
jk


all that is
the chords C,A,G,E,and D

and they fit toghether because they are the most basic forms of major Chords

this is normally a really basic thing people learning to play acoustic would learn

these chords tend to be used in Christian worship songs ALOT btw
#6
Quote by turtlewax
Yeah, but whats this caged system that everyone goes on about? Anyone have a link to anywhere that will explain it?

CAGED is just Chords bro

its not for soloing in ANY WAY
#7
Quote by hightension01
CAGED is just Chords bro

its not for soloing in ANY WAY


Uh what? Don't listen to him ^, he doesn't know what he's talking about. CAGED IS for soloing
#8
Quote by ElBarto2811
Uh what? Don't listen to him ^, he doesn't know what he's talking about. CAGED IS for soloing

well ok in ONE way

but all it is

is 5 chords

but any chord can be solo'd over

last time i checked CAGED didnt teach you anything besides the chords
#9
what has CAGED got to do with chords? aside from the shapes being derived from the chords. i think CAGED has a LOT more to do with scales than chords. CAGED is about not having to move position (not positions lol) to change keys, simply by remebering the 5 shapes.

its the name given to 5 shapes (what most call positions) of a scale. so G for example has 5 ways it can be played up the fretboard.

these shapes are obviouslly based on the open string chords, but if you move them up the fretboard, obviouslly thats how the shapes can be moved up the fretboard which in turn changes key. so instead of having to remember where every note of a keys scale are, you only have to remember the patterns. personally i dont like this idea. imo your better to know where the root notes are on all string at every point on the fretboard. once you know that, you know the pattern anyway (subsequently your also learning music not just patterns/shapes).

what im asking is, is it easer to learn one key at a time. someone mentioned low e string (lmao) and learn minor pent, well seriouslly one shouldnt even try to learn what i am if they dont know that shape already. because if i want to play in key of A with root starting at low E string im limited to one position. what if i wanted to play minor pent in the key of A starting with root on string G (3rd)? would be out of luck with the theory of learning just the minor pent shape in the first position (E low string). instead i need to know where A is on the G string, obviouslly 3rd fret. obviouslly the shape will be different to the first position (is it E in CAGED?) from that point, but as long as i know my intervals, i should be able to work this out (not that i need to).

there are some easier patterns to learn than caged. but if you map those caged positions out on fretboard you are unlimited to where you can play in key.

CAGED = 5 positions, that is my understanding. and people talk about the 5 shapes. these are the positions or caged. some people talk about the 5 patterns. can anyone see how people get confused lol. also some people think there is only 5 patterns/shapes/positions/caged. well theres not. its all relative to the chromatic right? ie modes, ie pent, ie blues etc etc

personally, what i like to do is, learn a key, lets say Em, follow those 5 notes, then go to next interval up the string (2 frets) and thats my root, keep following this all the way up fretboard. obviouslly the steps change on high strings, but if you start with the note prior too root, then that pattern doesnt change. either way is good, but knowing the need to change pattern if starting on root can at times be difficult. what i also do is sound out the notes as im playing.

so again, what im asking is, to memorise the fretboard notes, is it easier to do this 1 key at a time, and if so what is the most popular key in rock and blues, Em i would think?
Last edited by fiztech at Jun 3, 2008,
#10
Quote by fiztech
It has dawned on me that trying to learn where every key for the minor pent (and blues) falls on the fretboard is really difficult. yeah i could learn caged again to remind me of shapes. but at this point im prefering to learn where the notes sit, simply by figuring it out with intervals.

so would be ok just to learn Em and all its notes on the fretboard first? then move onto say Cm once i can improvise well with Em.

i know that limites me to one key, but isnt Em like the most common Rock/Blues key?


That's just it, it isn't hard at all. All the shapes are exactly the same, you just transpose them to the relevant root note. Don't learn them as absolutes, as in don't learn them in terms of fret numbers or positions. Learn the patterns relative to the root note, that way it's easy to move them around. Obviously take the time to learn the notes of each key, but as far as using the scale practically goes it's easy to learn all 12 keys at once.

Each key sounds the same, as in you're using the same intervals relative to the root and equivalent notes will perform the same function in the scale, so it's not like you're having to improvise any "differently" for different keys.

As far as memorising the notes on the fretboard goes don't use scales, learn them on their own. If you learn them in the context of the scale then you'll tend to always see them in the context of that scale.
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#11
thanks steven

i get what your saying. i suppose another thing is to keep in mind that travelling an octave too quickly too join a scale might not sound good. ie root G at 3rd fret E string, play that scale then, jump too 8th fret B string for root G and play scale might not necsecarilly sound too good.
#12
Quote by fiztech
thanks steven

i get what your saying. i suppose another thing is to keep in mind that travelling an octave too quickly too join a scale might not sound good. ie root G at 3rd fret E string, play that scale then, jump too 8th fret B string for root G and play scale might not necsecarilly sound too good.

If you're just sticking to one scale then it doesn't matter where you play it, it'll sound fine, if you're in G minor pentatonic and you jump from the low G on the 3rd fret E string to the D on the 19th fret G string it'll sound perfectly ok.
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#13
so many options.

you ever looked at scales on a fretboard, overlapped them and gone, oh my gosh, i can travel backwards, frontward, up, down, one string, two strings.

its like i feel as if i can see something magical when i look at the notes on the fretboard, but im not close enough to know how to use that magic and its frustrating ha ha.

if i keep at it, will i break through to that next level? it can be so daunting............
#14
There's a post that will come in very handy for you, hang on a sec...

this one https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=308518&highlight=relativity

remember, it's not a replacement for learning the notes but it will complement that knowledge
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Last edited by steven seagull at Jun 3, 2008,
#15
thanks steven

thats pretty much what i figured out for myself, DOH ! accept that so called hump to change up or down gear doesnt seem to worry me to much. start the pattern on a note whole step down and then start the pattern and wholah the hump is gone. will post some tab of what i mean when i get to it.

my head is soup.
#16
uhhh..... you only need to learn one key

then you just move it up and down the fretboard for different keys
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#17
Quote by jtgpurplelover
uhhh..... you only need to learn one key

then you just move it up and down the fretboard for different keys


huh? one key to rule them all lol.

i think u mean one pattern/scale shape move up and down? if so, thats very limiting.
#18
Quote by fiztech
huh? one key to rule them all lol.

i think u mean one pattern/scale shape move up and down? if so, thats very limiting.

Not really, after all there's only technically one shape for each scale...it just happens to cover the entire fretboard.
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