#1
when i record my electriv guitar with a dist. channel:
a) when i mic the amp, it has no definition and all the notes just run together
b) when i try running the guitar directly thru the computer, the tone gets all muddy

I've tried turning the gain down, turning the volume on the guitar down, turning the tone on almost everything down, and various combinations of all of the above

I get good tone out of the amp when im NOT recording, it just goes to hell when im actually recording it

How do i get more clarity out of the tone?

setup: Epihone SG Special> Dist.> Tubescreamer> Wah> SS amp
#2
are you using a mic that came out of a toy store LOL?
Originally posted by J_Dizzle
THAAAANK YOU GoodCharloteSux is god
#3
Yeah, a better quality condenser mic would probably fix that. MXL makes cheap affordable stuff. I use the 991 for micing amps quite a bit.
Quote by Portuguese_boy
(Progressive Metal is) like playing Nirvana, but faster, with little or no powerchords, cleanly, with more technique, and complex time signatures.

#4
i borrowed my friends mic
its not FOR recording but its a decent one
and yeah i ve been looking into getting a condnser mic
#5
Wait, are you using a dynamic mic for recording? Because that is most definitely not good.
Quote by Portuguese_boy
(Progressive Metal is) like playing Nirvana, but faster, with little or no powerchords, cleanly, with more technique, and complex time signatures.

#6
Well, I pulled out my book on home recording, Home Recording for Musicians for Dummies, for you. First of all, wat kinda mic is it? Is it a dynamic, condenser, or ribbon mic? A ribbon would add silkiness cuz it rolls off the higher frequencies slightly. A dynamic tends to accentuate the middle of the frequency spectrum. And a condenser tends to have a well rounded shape due to its frequency response.
I recommend a condenser mic. I have one myself. It's old, but works great. You can buy some old but good ones off of Ebay for $100 or so. Now, a condenser mic can be either tube or solidstate. With condenser mics, tube has a softer high end and a warmer tone overall, jus like your tube amps. Solidstate is more transparent, meanin the sound is captured with less coloration, jus like your Solidstate amps. If you go with a condenser mic, I'd also make sure it has a small diaphragm cuz then it will capture higher end frequency better and have an even frequency response. Note that no matter wat, with a condenser mic, you'll need to set it far nough away (and keep the volume on your amp down nough) that it won't be hit hard with huge wave of sound, as it bein hit by a large wave of sound could damage it or even permanently break it. I'd say 1-3 feet is far nough away.

Tell me if you want more info on this type of mic or the other types I mentioned.

Now, if you wish to keep the mic you have, I suggest you turn your amp down a lil. Then move your mic back from the amp speaker about 1-3 feet. First try it back 1 foot, record a few seconds of playin. Then, if it's clear, fine. If not, move it back another foot. And so on to 3 feet. Make sure the room your recordin in doesn't echo at all. (If it has flourescent lights, that might be a problem too. Don't know why, cept that amps and mics tend to not do exactly the sound quality you want em with flourescent lights. They also will buzz, even if your volume is low and you can't hear them buzz.) Then make sure there's no furniture that is causin the sound to dampen. When all that's thru, try it out. If it works, you're fine. If not, I'd look at gettin a different mic. I can give you more info bout mics if you wish. Or you can go buy Home Recording for Musicians for Dummies for bout $15.
#7
thanks dude
and im lookin at condenser mics right now, as that seems the most sensible option to me
and i think i might have been putting it too close
although the volume was already pretty far down
#8
If you're recording ONLY guitar amp, you want either a good dynamic such as an Sm57, Sennheiser e906, or MD421 II, or a decent ribbon mic from the low end offerings such as Cascade.
#9
Turn down the input. Place the mic right up to the grille not pointing right where the cone meets the edge of the speaker. Turn up the mids and down the gain.
#10
Quote by llanafreak44
Turn down the input. Place the mic right up to the grille not pointing right where the cone meets the edge of the speaker. Turn up the mids and down the gain.



Exactly. This is what I do for the time being. I just used a cheapy logitech mic for all my clips and it sounds pretty decent.
AMP:
5150 combo
GSP1101 + Tech 21 PE60

GUITARS:
ESP LTD M-255 w/ SD Full Shred
Kramer Vanguard w/ JE-1000 active preamp
Douglas WF-150sn w/ GFS "Hot Lead" set

EFFECTS:
Bos SD-1 (boost)
AMT DT-2

My Youtube Vids http://youtube.com/user/mogar
#11
also make sure you keep an eye on the input coming into the computer to make sure it isn't clipping, and what kind of mic preamp are you using? The ones built into most normal computer soundcards suck and could also be causing some of your problems.
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#12
i actually have no idea what kind of preamp im using
and ive heard talk of using two mics at once before
one close and one farther off to capture some different tones and give it a thicker feel
is this credible and if so how should i set that up?
assuming i get two good rec. mics
#13
It sounds like you're using a poor microphone. The amp may be too loud for the mic.
Quote by ProneSolution
Wait, are you using a dynamic mic for recording? Because that is most definitely not good.

What the **** are you talking about? Walk into any recording studio in the world and you will find dynamic microphones.
Quote by BeefWellington

what's the point in being "philiosophical"?

Interesting question...
#14
Quote by Vornik
It sounds like you're using a poor microphone. The amp may be too loud for the mic.
What the **** are you talking about? Walk into any recording studio in the world and you will find dynamic microphones.

I agree with that, I wasn't saying they wouldn't be found in a studio. I'm saying for micing guitar amps, at least in my experience, a dynamic mic is not the way to go. Last time I did it, I got ridiculous amounts of buzzing, humming, and other noise.
Quote by Portuguese_boy
(Progressive Metal is) like playing Nirvana, but faster, with little or no powerchords, cleanly, with more technique, and complex time signatures.

#15
Well then YOU did something wrong. Dynamics have been to go-to mics for guitar cabs for quite literally, decades.
#16
Quote by MrPillow
Well then YOU did something wrong. Dynamics have been to go-to mics for guitar cabs for quite literally, decades.

Really? Can you give me an example of a good one to use? And maybe some advice as to how to set it up.

Thanks.
Quote by Portuguese_boy
(Progressive Metal is) like playing Nirvana, but faster, with little or no powerchords, cleanly, with more technique, and complex time signatures.

#17
Quote by ProneSolution
Really? Can you give me an example of a good one to use? And maybe some advice as to how to set it up.

Thanks.


SM57, experiment with the position of the mic, it makes a big difference

but SM57 all the way.

Recording guitar amps on overdrive with a condenser mic is generally NOT a good idea.
#18
Quote by ProneSolution
Really? Can you give me an example of a good one to use? And maybe some advice as to how to set it up.

Thanks.


The trusty SM57's always a good bet, I've used a 58 with nice results too, you have to be careful with mic placement with 57s/8s though because if you're too near the centre of the speaker cone you get really nasty high end coming through.

Quote by Johnny Trash


Recording guitar amps on overdrive with a condenser mic is generally NOT a good idea.


Not as a close-up mic, but I've used Condensors set a few feet back from the amp and in the corner of the room before and it fills the sound out quite nicely.
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#19
Sm57, Sennheiser e609/906, Md421II, Audix i5, and similar offerings are all excellent choices for dynamics on guitar cab. How to set it up is a matter of experimentation as every amp, cab, and room will respond different. Usually a good bet is about 3-4" off center, right on the grill, a tad off axis if it's too trebley for your liking.
#20
Quote by timi_hendrix
The trusty SM57's always a good bet, I've used a 58 with nice results too, you have to be careful with mic placement with 57s/8s though because if you're too near the centre of the speaker cone you get really nasty high end coming through.

I tried recording with a SM58 and didn't have good results. I will check out the SM57, a buddy of mine has got a few.
Quote by timi_hendrix
Not as a close-up mic, but I've used Condensors set a few feet back from the amp and in the corner of the room before and it fills the sound out quite nicely.

This is what I do. I've never tried putting it in the corner of the room though. I'll give that a try.
Thanks for the enlightenment.
Quote by Portuguese_boy
(Progressive Metal is) like playing Nirvana, but faster, with little or no powerchords, cleanly, with more technique, and complex time signatures.

#21
which way should i set the mic for a bassier sound and which way for a little more treble?
im doin two different tracks and need the frequencies to soound a little bit different
#22
For a smoother, bassier sound, move the mike away from the center of the speaker and/or angle it away from pointing right at the speaker. For more treble, point it right towards the center.
#23
Quote by ProneSolution
I tried recording with a SM58 and didn't have good results. I will check out the SM57, a buddy of mine has got a few.

This is what I do. I've never tried putting it in the corner of the room though. I'll give that a try.
Thanks for the enlightenment.



The 58 is essentially the same microphone as the 57, just with the windscreen, which can affect frequencies a little. Bare in mind that it's not just the microphone which affects the tone of your recording - everything else in the signal chain plays a part too. Plus, recording the amp alone rarely gets a great tone in my experience. It's the EQ'ing and mixing afterwards that really results in a good, refined tone IMO.
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#24
Also keep in mind that a guitar tone that sounds great on it's own, is usually a tone that sounds horrid in a mix

Keep your final goal in mind when getting your tone ready for recording.

As with any mic and amp, you have to spend a fair amount of time experimenting and finding the best position for getting optimum results.
#25
Quote by fridge_raider
The 58 is essentially the same microphone as the 57, just with the windscreen, which can affect frequencies a little. Bare in mind that it's not just the microphone which affects the tone of your recording - everything else in the signal chain plays a part too. Plus, recording the amp alone rarely gets a great tone in my experience. It's the EQ'ing and mixing afterwards that really results in a good, refined tone IMO.


The mics are something I do know, and a 58 is not essentially the same as a 57 with a grille.
I've tested them both and the 57 has better off-axis rejection (which you'd expect to be opposite with something blocking the sound).

Also, the response curves are very different, much more so than a grille can affect the sound.

The 58 is generally designed as a live vocal mic for its mids (which are generally why it isn't the go-to mic for recording) and the 57 has a clearer high frequency response (which is why it is a classic choice for guitar, especially lead guitar)

The beta 56 and beta 57 are essentially the same in a different case designed for slightly different applications
#26
Quote by fleaflicker182
The mics are something I do know, and a 58 is not essentially the same as a 57 with a grille.




Except it is. They use the same capsule, although I can appreciate (and did mention) how the windscreen can affect the frequency response (although only to a certain extent).
There is poetry in despair.
#27
Their are slight differences in voicing and on/off-axis behavior, but they are all but insignificant. The 57 is slightly more pronounced in the "bright" area (5khz-ish), while the 58 so in the "presence" area (8khz if i remember the curve correctly), owing to its preferred application to vocals vs the nice mid-boost the 57 gives to instruments. Both can be used interchangeably in almost any situation, provided you have any idea what you are doing in the first place.
#28
They can be, but 58s are much more honky. I find that you need to EQ the hell out of a 58 for guitars in recording (actually for vocals, too).

The difference is noticeable at close-micing distance. According to Shure's website, they are based on the same capsule design, but the mesh design on the 57 also factors into the difference between the 2 mics.

As an aside, to get closer to a 57 sound with a 58 they recommend taking off the grille (although you should be careful, as that exposes the diaphragm). This improves the proximity effect response that people like 57s for.

The other difference, though (as mentioned earlier) is the mesh grille design on the 57, which attributes to its 5kHz boost.

It is all a matter of preference/whatever you own if you only have one, but I do suggest that the interchangeability between the two is mainly for live purposes (although I would say that if you don't want to fork out for a proper kick mic for recording, the 58 is a very good choice).

Final advice, if you like the sound of a 57 better, use that if you can (and vice-versa), because the less EQ you apply the better.
#29
I'd skip both and use a Md421 paired with one of the Cascade Ribbons (Fat Head or Vin-Jet are both good choices), but thats just me.
#30
There are no hard and fast rules, but a good generalization is this:

condensors - acoustic and classical guitars; electric guitars on clean sounds
dynamics - distorted electric guitars or blues-based sounds.

A dynamic mic lacks the dynamic range (ironically) that a condensor has. In other words, it will add a bit of 'natural' compression to the sound. Since this is a desirable feature of rock guitar sounds, the dynamic mic is a good choice. Can you use a condensor? Sure, but your mileage may vary as they say.

As far as the Shure SM57 being the same as the SM58, this is directly from their site:

Question
What are the real reasons an SM58 should be used for vocals, and an SM57 be used for instruments? Of course, everybody seems to use these mics as mentioned. No one has given me a convincing reason for this, other than 'That's just what you do- everyone does it this way'. Please ease my anxious mind!
Answer
It is true the SM57 and SM58 microphones are based on the same cartridge design. The main difference between them is in the grille design. The SM58 was designed for vocal application and it uses a separate grille with a very effective pop filter. The SM57 was designed as an instrument microphone where smaller grille size is preferred. In this application the pop and wind are not usually a concern. The SM57 uses an integral resonator/grille assembly, where grille is actually a part of the cartridge. These two grille designs place the diaphragm of the microphones in a different acoustical environment. First of all, the distance from the top of the grille to the diaphragm is significantly shorter on the SM57 compared to that of the SM58. This allows for closer sound pickup with even more pronounced proximity effect. Secondly, a different resonator/grille assembly design of the SM57 is responsible for its slightly higher output above 5 kHz.


I typically use a 57 for guitar cabs. Sometimes I'll use a Sennheiser e835, just because I have one. It sounds very similar to a 57. I'd like to get a Sennheiser MD421 or an e609.

CT
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