#1
Hey, i dont know much about amps and i was wondering which amp would be better the Epiphone Valve Jr (Head+Cab) or the Marshall Microstack. I mainly play rock/blues and classic rock. Which amp is louder and would be better for playing with bass and drums? thx
#2
No contest.. VJ wins! You could also try a blackheart LG. Can keep up with the drummer IF you're not planning on playing really clean sound.

The micro stack is honestly a waste of money. Big time
#3
the Epi is a tube while the marshall is a solid state. So I would prefer the Epi. Do you need cleans?

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#4
Valve Jr all the way, the marshall microstack looks cool but it's pure crap. And you'll want to look for something a bit bigger if you want to play with bass and drums, the valve jr won't be able to keep up.
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#5
VJ all the way
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#6
Quote by helsinki_vampir
the Epi is a tube while the marshall is a solid state. So I would prefer the Epi. Do you need cleans?
It's not a "tube", it's a guitar amplifier.
These go to eleven...
#7
Quote by JimPlaysGuitar
It's not a "tube", it's a guitar amplifier.


WTF?

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#8
Quote by JimPlaysGuitar
It's not a "tube", it's a guitar amplifier.



Other guy obviously ment it's a tube amp...
#9
neither will be that good for competing with drums volume wise but the Valve Junior will probably be louder, and definietly sound better.
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
#10
Quote by esp1234
Other guy obviously ment it's a tube amp...


Jim obviously "ment" to make a joke.

Are you familiar with them?

Go for the VJ. Even though I think they're pretty poor they're better than the Microstack.
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#12
Just out of curiosity has anyone ever measured with a sound pressure meter how loud a drummer can actually get at full on "Animal" playing level?

Because with the right speakers a Valve Jr. can be made to make 121db of noise.
#13
Quote by la894
Hey, i dont know much about amps and i was wondering which amp would be better the Epiphone Valve Jr (Head+Cab) or the Marshall Microstack. I mainly play rock/blues and classic rock. Which amp is louder and would be better for playing with bass and drums? thx

Neither can get over the drums. Your going to have to spend more than that to get a jam-capable amp.
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#14
Thx, this really helped. alright, wut r some good amps that CAN go over drums that are relativley inexpensive? About how many watts would i need to go over drums? the max i would want to spend is $300-400
#15
You'll need at least 15 tube watts.

For classic rock? Try out a Fender Blues Junior and a Palomino V16. Also, a Traynor YCV30, and a Peavey Classic 20. The last 3 would need to be found used, as they're discontinued.

You may be able to find a used Peavey Classic 30 in that budget, as well as a Traynor YCV40. Keep your eyes peeled.
#16
Thanks i did some lookin around and i came up with the Peavey Bandit 112 Guitar Amplifier with TransTube Technology it seems pretty good, but what do you guys think?
#19
Quote by The Atomic Ass


Because with the right speakers a Valve Jr. can be made to make 121db of noise.

Well put. For $300-$400 depending on where you live, you may be able to get a used Blues Junior or V16 Palomino. Occasionally a Traynor 20 watt will show up. Those are all worth a look. Look around and be patient.
#20
Quote by The Atomic Ass
Because with the right speakers a Valve Jr. can be made to make 121db of noise.
It's still only 5 watts, regardless of the speaker(s).
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#21
Quote by Van Noord
It's still only 5 watts, regardless of the speaker(s).


Watts are a useless indicator of how loud something is.

I can take the Valve Jr. and run it into a single speaker with an efficiency of 90db, and driving it into distortion, (which puts it at closer to 10w dimed), I'll have an amp that's just loud.

Whereas I hook the same amp to a pair of 4x12's, with speakers rated for 100db, and if each speaker is receiving ~1w for which it's efficiency is rated, add 3db for each additional speaker, (7 additional speakers, in case you weren't counting), and you have 121db.

Which is actually louder than most combos of any power rating can get.
#22
Quote by The Atomic Ass
Watts are a useless indicator of how loud something is.

No, they are not. They're not that great, but most of the time you can make a pretty good guess on how loud an amp is.
Quote by The Atomic Ass

I can take the Valve Jr. and run it into a single speaker with an efficiency of 90db, and driving it into distortion, (which puts it at closer to 10w dimed), I'll have an amp that's just loud.

Whereas I hook the same amp to a pair of 4x12's, with speakers rated for 100db, and if each speaker is receiving ~1w for which it's efficiency is rated, add 3db for each additional speaker, (7 additional speakers, in case you weren't counting), and you have 121db.

Which is actually louder than most combos of any power rating can get.

Actually, I believe you get 3db for doubling the speaker area. Thus you would get 9db more from that, so 109db. Not to mention phase cancelling. Also, your example is pretty bad in that it takes two extreme cases. You do have a good point in there, but I think you exaggerated it.
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#25
Quote by Fama
No, they are not. They're not that great, but most of the time you can make a pretty good guess on how loud an amp is.

Actually, I believe you get 3db for doubling the speaker area. Thus you would get 9db more from that, so 109db. Not to mention phase cancelling. Also, your example is pretty bad in that it takes two extreme cases. You do have a good point in there, but I think you exaggerated it.


Increasing the number of speakers doesnt do ANYTHING to actual loudness except for them working in a more linear region of their power handling capacity, which is not a problem anyway with 5 watt amps. The "extra 3db louder with more speakers" is a bunch of bollocks made up by pseudo-electricians who need to go back to high school to learn basic maths.

It might change the perceived loudness due to sound wave interference a bit, but nothing else.

The total working power of a huge stack of speakers connected to a valve junior will still be 5 watts just like the working power of 1 speaker will be 5 watts in a small valve junior combo amp.

For a given power input to a number x of speakers with the same efficiency, the cumulative loudness in decibels will increase by (logx)*10 decibels.

If you use a single speaker with 100 db/wm sensitivity with a 5 watt amp(though their actual sensitivity is more in the 110-115 db/wm area in the most important 2khz range), then it will produce a sound pressure of 100+ (log5)*10=107 decibels at a one meter distance.
with 100 speakers then every speaker will output(since every speaker gets 0,05 watt of power) 100 +(log0.05)*10= 87 decibels of sound pressure and since there are 100 speakers you add (log100)*10=20 decibels to that and STILL GET 87+20=107 DECIBELS of loudness.

Want to get your 121 db's of noise? Use a 5*10^[(121-107)/10]=125 watt amp. With a full stack or 110 cabinet? Pick either.
Last edited by 1337void at Jun 5, 2008,
#26
Quote by The Atomic Ass
Watts are a useless indicator of how loud something is.

I can take the Valve Jr. and run it into a single speaker with an efficiency of 90db, and driving it into distortion, (which puts it at closer to 10w dimed), I'll have an amp that's just loud.

Whereas I hook the same amp to a pair of 4x12's, with speakers rated for 100db, and if each speaker is receiving ~1w for which it's efficiency is rated, add 3db for each additional speaker, (7 additional speakers, in case you weren't counting), and you have 121db.

Which is actually louder than most combos of any power rating can get.
What can't you grasp? IT'S STILL GOING TO BE 5 WATTS!
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#27
Quote by timi_hendrix
Jim obviously "ment" to make a joke.

Are you familiar with them?

Go for the VJ. Even though I think they're pretty poor they're better than the Microstack.

Sigged out of context.
#28
Quote by Fama
No, they are not. They're not that great, but most of the time you can make a pretty good guess on how loud an amp is.

Actually, I believe you get 3db for doubling the speaker area. Thus you would get 9db more from that, so 109db. Not to mention phase cancelling. Also, your example is pretty bad in that it takes two extreme cases. You do have a good point in there, but I think you exaggerated it.

Oops. It would be 109db. Got my calculations a tad messed up.

My comment about watts was a tad mis-worded.

Quote by Van Noord
What can't you grasp? IT'S STILL GOING TO BE 5 WATTS!

I grasp logic. You don't, apparently.

You actually remind me of someone I worked with who stated emphatically that a Harley-Davidson could keep up with a Japanese sport bike simply because it had the same horsepower. He was just as wrong as you are, however.
Last edited by The Atomic Ass at Jun 6, 2008,
#29
Quote by The Atomic Ass
Just out of curiosity has anyone ever measured with a sound pressure meter how loud a drummer can actually get at full on "Animal" playing level?

Because with the right speakers a Valve Jr. can be made to make 121db of noise.

depends on room size. but i got to 160 db in a acoustically treated room.
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