#1
I listened to *Lateralus* by TooL tonight at work again..

I think the riffs and the playing are great. They have alot
of really good ideas...but dispite all of their talent...
I still just dont get it...The riffs and all are just so random..
Its hard for me to get into the groove because as soon as
I begin to hear something i like..they just jump to something
different..The 5000 riffs per song combined with the polyryhthm just
sounds like an album of ADD....

Ive been on youtube checking out bands..and Im seriously
about to give up...

Does anybody do Polyrhythm well right now?
I bet Charlie Brown's teacher's name was Mrs.Hammett
#2
Naa I've always had a hard time with it, RHCP does a lot of it which makes some of their songs pretty hard to learn
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#3
Ive never actually played around with polyrhythms, but if you want some polyrhythm madness, check out some Meshuggah.

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#4
Quote by SG6578
Naa I've always had a hard time with it, RHCP does a lot of it which makes some of their songs pretty hard to learn


Just curious, what of some examples of RCHP's polyrhythmic stuff?
Quote by guitar_god22

thats about south africa tho...which isnt poor at all.
Quote by RyanInChains9
yea venezula is just the richest country in the world...
#5
Polyrhythms really aren't that hard to get the hang of. I can play alot of Meshuggahs songs and i'm working on others. It's a bit limiting without a 7-string though.

What may seem like a riff changing actually isn't. Usually the guitars are repeating the same rhythm over and over. It's just about knowing what time signiture they are in and trying to ignore the drums until you have it down.
#6
The bass always has the 'groove' or 'ungroove' or whatever you wanna call it. Follow that.

PS: it's not supposed to be music that you 'get' straight away

I'm classically trained on viola, study 2 Unit Music, and Tool are one of the only bands that appeal to a lot of people in with that kind of musical understanding. They always amaze me as a band, because you always 'get' something new every time you listen. If you can listen.
Last edited by DamoPlaysBass at Jun 5, 2008,
#7
Quote by Zeppelin256
Just curious, what of some examples of RCHP's polyrhythmic stuff?


Yeah, I'd like to know too. Maybe someone's got a little too much...*YA MUSTA BEEN OUT YOUR HEAD, ELBOW DEEP IN MUDDY WATERS YOU PRACTICALLY RAISE THE DEAD*
#9
every metal band basically uses them, a lot of times theyre used at the end of a verse as a good transition, IE, after 3 measures of normal 4/4, theyll do a measure of 4 against 3 using chromatically descending powerchords or something
Quote by beadhangingOne
There is no music but metal and muhammad is its prophet.
#11
guys what do you mean by polyrythm?


There are essentially two different definitions for polyrhythm.

The first is that of EZLN's post, the binary against tertiary groupings such as 3 against 2 and 3 against 4. Polyrhythms also commonly manifest themselves in the way of 4 against 5 and 3 against 5. It is rare to see anything larger or that can't be reduced to those 4 common polyrhythms. To have a handle on these polyrhythms is to have a handle on most of the polyrhythmic difficulties you'll ever encounter.

The second is that of the changing time signature, such as changing from 3/4 to 4/4 or 6/8 to 7/8. It's difficulties are not found in coordination like that of the aforementioned, but is rather found in that it changes the metric organization of the music, that is pulse, so that it becomes a matter of continuity and of smooth transition.

The reasons for doing either are rather simple. For the first it is for creating independence of the line and rhythmic tension. The 2nd is for variation reasons.
#12
wow, ok, im pretty insulted by the comments about Tool, but here's what I have to say. I don't share your opinion about tool using polyrhythms, to me, they sound great. And Lateralus really doesn't have that many riffs, especially considering its 9 minutes long. its got that clean intro, the chorus riff, the verse one, the breakdown, some transitions, a few solos, but thats about it.
Please excuse the Tool for trying to make some intelligent sounding music instead of the bland simplicity that plagues many bands out there.
Quote by Portuguese_boy
(Progressive Metal is) like playing Nirvana, but faster, with little or no powerchords, cleanly, with more technique, and complex time signatures.

#13
Quote by ProneSolution
wow, ok, im pretty insulted by the comments about Tool, but here's what I have to say. I don't share your opinion about tool using polyrhythms, to me, they sound great. And Lateralus really doesn't have that many riffs, especially considering its 9 minutes long. its got that clean intro, the chorus riff, the verse one, the breakdown, some transitions, a few solos, but thats about it.
Please excuse the Tool for trying to make some intelligent sounding music instead of the bland simplicity that plagues many bands out there.


This isn't discussion about the merits of their music. He just used them as an example.
Quote by dudetheman
So what? I wasted like 5 minutes watching DaddyTwoFoot's avatar.


Metalheads are the worst thing that ever happened to metal.
#14
Quote by ProneSolution
wow, ok, im pretty insulted by the comments about Tool, but here's what I have to say. I don't share your opinion about tool using polyrhythms, to me, they sound great. And Lateralus really doesn't have that many riffs, especially considering its 9 minutes long. its got that clean intro, the chorus riff, the verse one, the breakdown, some transitions, a few solos, but thats about it.
Please excuse the Tool for trying to make some intelligent sounding music instead of the bland simplicity that plagues many bands out there.


I listened to the entire album...ok..not just the single..

Tools riffs are great..they create an atmosphere with their music..the sound
quality is awesome. Some of their stuff sounds truly epic. I cant take that
away from them. I rate them highly as a band. They are talented .

However..I just have trouble understanding what they are trying to say with
compositions. Some tracks have

The drummer on one rhythm
The guitar on another rhythm
The singing on another rhythm...
hard to understand lyrics and at times the lyrics are not very dissonant from the
music so its hard to understand...
Riffs constantly changing....
These are a lot things to keep up with..and at times they tend to sound like a
group of people playing instruments and not a band to me...

I dont really think liking them makes you more intelligent...or not liking them
less intelligent. Im just trying to understand people that are into it..or compose
with it alot...

Do you just focus on one instrument when u listen? Or do you actually listen to
everything as a whole? Im just trying to understand...
I bet Charlie Brown's teacher's name was Mrs.Hammett
Last edited by Washburnd Fretz at Jun 5, 2008,
#15
Quote by ProneSolution
wow, ok, im pretty insulted by the comments about Tool, but here's what I have to say. I don't share your opinion about tool using polyrhythms, to me, they sound great. And Lateralus really doesn't have that many riffs, especially considering its 9 minutes long. its got that clean intro, the chorus riff, the verse one, the breakdown, some transitions, a few solos, but thats about it.
Please excuse the Tool for trying to make some intelligent sounding music instead of the bland simplicity that plagues many bands out there.

Why are you insulted when he comments on his opinion on a song that you had nothing to do with? TS isn't insulting them hes explaining how he responds to their music. You are a TOOL and a pompous ass (in my opinion of course).
#16
Tool isnt meant to be listened as like you would any average band, theyre not meant to be your standard 4/4 time signature hit on the radio band, first off, their lyrics are about far more complex things then the girl that left you, second, their music is far more complex that a pentatonic scale in 4/4. their polyrhythmic abilities allow them to add a side to their music that most bands cant, basically you can close your eyes and get lost, i know lateralus does this for me, everytime i listen to i discover something new in it, theres always a new riff or rhythm for me to groove to, it takes a long time to get built into your system, but once it gets in their, you'll never be able to stand simplistic music again
Quote by beadhangingOne
There is no music but metal and muhammad is its prophet.
#17
^ + 50,000.3892

seriously i do the same thing, i can listen to it with my eyes closed and especially lateralus just get lost in it all and enjoy every second of it. i think maybe the TS just needs to listen to it a little more and think a little less to really enjoy it.
#19
Quote by Washburnd Fretz


Do you just focus on one instrument when u listen? Or do you actually listen to
everything as a whole? Im just trying to understand...


i listen to everything as a whole, thats with all music. the movement of the drums against the bass and guitar and the guitar provides an incredible forward momentum for alot of the songs, i'm wondering if maybe you're just listening to one instrument or focusing too much on one thing. its not just general pop/rock like what you normally hear on the radio, imo it's incredibly well thought out and well written. if it seems like "too much" try listening to 10,000 days in its entirety, theres still a lot of stuff rhythmic wise going on but it's not quite as robust as lateralus, 10,000 days might be good to listen to so you can kinda see whats going on then go back to lateralus.
#20
Quote by Washburnd Fretz

I dont really think liking them makes you more intelligent...or not liking them
less intelligent. Im just trying to understand people that are into it..or compose
with it alot...

Do you just focus on one instrument when u listen? Or do you actually listen to
everything as a whole? Im just trying to understand...


Sorry about the earlier comments, I was in an extremely bad mood, and sometimes I get defensive about my favorite band, even when they're not being insulted. I apologize.
I don't think using polyrhythms makes you more or less intelligent either. I think they are a useful tool for those who can use them. I don't use them very much.

When I first started to listen to Tool, I had the same problem as you, but I still really liked the music, so I wanted to be able to listen without being overwhelmed. What I did is I started listening to the parts where, like you were saying, the instruments are playing in different rhythms, and just focus on one instrument at a time. After that, I would go back and listen to it again, this time listening to all the sounds, and I found it much more enjoyable.

To /-\liceNChains and DaddyTwoFoot, I didn't mean to go off like that.
Quote by Portuguese_boy
(Progressive Metal is) like playing Nirvana, but faster, with little or no powerchords, cleanly, with more technique, and complex time signatures.

#21
Quote by Erc
There are essentially two different definitions for polyrhythm.

The first is that of EZLN's post, the binary against tertiary groupings such as 3 against 2 and 3 against 4. Polyrhythms also commonly manifest themselves in the way of 4 against 5 and 3 against 5. It is rare to see anything larger or that can't be reduced to those 4 common polyrhythms. To have a handle on these polyrhythms is to have a handle on most of the polyrhythmic difficulties you'll ever encounter.

The second is that of the changing time signature, such as changing from 3/4 to 4/4 or 6/8 to 7/8. It's difficulties are not found in coordination like that of the aforementioned, but is rather found in that it changes the metric organization of the music, that is pulse, so that it becomes a matter of continuity and of smooth transition.

The reasons for doing either are rather simple. For the first it is for creating independence of the line and rhythmic tension. The 2nd is for variation reasons.


I've never heard the latter definition called a polyrhythm.
Quote by guitar_god22

thats about south africa tho...which isnt poor at all.
Quote by RyanInChains9
yea venezula is just the richest country in the world...
#22
Quote by z4twenny
^ + 50,000.3892

seriously i do the same thing, i can listen to it with my eyes closed and especially lateralus just get lost in it all and enjoy every second of it. i think maybe the TS just needs to listen to it a little more and think a little less to really enjoy it.



Quote by ProneSolution
Sorry about the earlier comments, I was in an extremely bad mood, and sometimes I get defensive about my favorite band, even when they're not being insulted. I apologize.
I don't think using polyrhythms makes you more or less intelligent either. I think they are a useful tool for those who can use them. I don't use them very much.

When I first started to listen to Tool, I had the same problem as you, but I still really liked the music, so I wanted to be able to listen without being overwhelmed. What I did is I started listening to the parts where, like you were saying, the instruments are playing in different rhythms, and just focus on one instrument at a time. After that, I would go back and listen to it again, this time listening to all the sounds, and I found it much more enjoyable.

To /-\liceNChains and DaddyTwoFoot, I didn't mean to go off like that.


Well guys....Today I had a really stressful day...I was pretty overwhelmed at work..
Around lunch time..I realized that my phone is somewhere over the Atlantic Ocean
right now..as I must have dropped it in some huge boxes we were shipping..

I found myself really frustrated and I finally got to work alone quietly..
I needed something to "get away to." At times like that I will just let the
music *Take over* and zone out to it.... Listening to that album again with
nothing to make me biased seemed to change things. After listening to *The Patient*
for about the 10th time it seemed brilliant. I found myself uplifted by the Album.
It made me feel better and now i realize why *TooL* has so many loyal fans..
Their songs dont seem like songs anymore..they started to appear to be
Evolutions of a simple Ideas. Like listening to an Amoeba evolve into a god.
In the song *Disposition* somehow they actually captured the essence of
rain...and nature..and the rhythm of the earth in a quiet storm..I seemed
to feel like I was a part of the music. instead of listening to it.
I dont know if that makes any sense...but now I understand.
Listening to their music Half-Assed is not enough to comprehend it.

I have been converted....TooL Effin RoX!!! \m/ \m/
I bet Charlie Brown's teacher's name was Mrs.Hammett
Last edited by Washburnd Fretz at Jun 6, 2008,
#24
Quote by Washburnd Fretz

I have been converted....TooL Effin RoX!!! \m/


Good to hear.
Quote by Portuguese_boy
(Progressive Metal is) like playing Nirvana, but faster, with little or no powerchords, cleanly, with more technique, and complex time signatures.