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#1
what does everyone think of these...

if you don't know what they are , it's when you move the higher note of a typical power chord breakdown one fret down which makes it a more dissonant/heavy sounding breakdown

does anyone know who the first core band to use a tritone breakdown was ? i think it was the acacia strain but i'm not sure... they're mostly used by deathcore bands and some moshcore/beatdown bands

name some bands you like that use them
Last edited by uppercut613 at Jun 6, 2008,
#2
um... tritones have been used since the dawn of time. its stupid to think that a band discovered it. back in the days when people thought the world was flat, they believed tritones would open a gateway to hell, and was banned from being used.
#3
Quote by Hadeed
um... tritones have been used since the dawn of time. its stupid to think that a band discovered it. back in the days when people thought the world was flat, they believed tritones would open a gateway to hell, and was banned from being used.


i never said a band discovered it, i want to know the first core band to use a tritone breakdown
#4
Quote by Hadeed
um... tritones have been used since the dawn of time. its stupid to think that a band discovered it. back in the days when people thought the world was flat, they believed tritones would open a gateway to hell, and was banned from being used.



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#5
Black Sabbath?

Quote by emad
jthm_guitarist
Warned for trolling!


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#6
the first band that used the tritone was black sabbath if im not wrong.
but im not very sure
is this a tritone chord?
d|-7-|
a|-6-|
e|-5-|
?
#7
guys this is the hardcore section, i'm talking about tritone breakdowns, not just bands that used tritones

*k i edited it for people who didn't connect my title with what i was saying in my post
Last edited by uppercut613 at Jun 6, 2008,
#8
Quote by uppercut613
guys this is the hardcore section, i'm talking about tritone breakdowns, not just bands that used tritones



yeah tritones are pretty damn hardcore man..
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#9
Do you call Metallica core? 'Cause they used them for breakdowns too.

Quote by emad
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Warned for trolling!


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#10
Quote by jthm_guitarist
Do you call Metallica core? 'Cause they used them for breakdowns too.


in which song?
#11
Quote by jthm_guitarist
Do you call Metallica core? 'Cause they used them for breakdowns too.


no.
#12
ok i'm just gonna assume it was the acacia strain who started the tritone breakdown trend until further notice...
#13
Quote by uppercut613
ok i'm just gonna assume it was the acacia strain who started the tritone breakdown trend until further notice...


A couple people said Sabbath bro..
And is it THAT important for you to know? Good god your like bossing and demanding everyone to tell you.
Quote by gallagher2006
Whats a Steve Vai? Floyd Rose ripoff?

Quote by Mr. Twelve
Behold...the Arctopus are obviously music. I don't see how anyone could say they're not music compared to many modern and post-modern composers. That being said, I think B...tA are terrible.
#14
Quote by kirkadolph
A couple people said Sabbath bro..
And is it THAT important for you to know? Good god your like bossing and demanding everyone to tell you.


sabbath has nothing to do with hardcore or breakdowns

and i'm just curious man, alot of bands i listen to use this style of breakdowns, i wanna know who started it (as opposed to using power chord breakdowns)
#17
The actual musical term for them is Diminished chords. All their doing is taking a diminished power chord and playing it at the lowest possible octave.

And its slowly ruining the originality pool of good metal on a daily basis.
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#19
Quote by guitarwannabe16
The actual musical term for them is Diminished chords. All their doing is taking a diminished power chord and playing it at the lowest possible octave.

And its slowly ruining the originality pool of good metal on a daily basis.



This.
Quote by ch715dallat
Necrophagist how could all you n00bs forget the best german metalcore band ever. i think theyre tech metalcore tho or sumfin
#20
You guys do realize that this

|-6-|
|-5-|
|-4-|

moved in any position isn't a tritone. There is only two tones in that chord, the root and the diminished fifth.
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#22
oh god for a second i though that was a serious post and i got angry
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#23
Quote by uppercut613
sabbath has nothing to do with hardcore or breakdowns

and i'm just curious man, alot of bands i listen to use this style of breakdowns, i wanna know who started it (as opposed to using power chord breakdowns)



do you realize that breakdowns have nothing to do with hardcore?
#25
Quote by GoDrex
Yeah why does he keep calling it a tritone breakdown? I'd like to know what he thinks a breakdown is.



Music played in half time. You're "breaking down" the tempo, to create a heavier atmosphere.
#26
Quote by Aveks
Music played in half time. You're "breaking down" the tempo, to create a heavier atmosphere.

I know that - but this is what he wrote:

if you don't know what they are , it's when you move the higher note of a typical power chord breakdown one fret down which makes it a more dissonant/heavy sounding breakdown
#27
Quote by GoDrex
I know that - but this is what he wrote:



That was him trying to describe a tritone, not a breakdown.
#28
Quote by tomohawkjoe
You guys do realize that this
moved in any position isn't a tritone. There is only two tones in that chord, the root and the diminished fifth.


omg sigged

well, if you had any idea what a tritone was you'd stfu, but i guess i have to edjumacate a few of you. The definition of a tritone is two notes with a difference of three whole tones, or whole steps. Anyone with any basic theory knowledge can figure out that three whole steps makes a minor fifth(^see above^) Having said that there is no such thing as a diminished fifth, only minor fifth. You can augment a fifth making a minor sixth which i personally prefer to tritones. I'm guessing the norma jean joke is about memphis will be laid to waste, which is not a tritone, but is a minor second. You probably already knew that, but im just making sure. As for the band to first use a tritone in a breakdown i have no idea.My guess would be really old dillinger depending on what your definition of breakdown is.

Once again, lol tritone = minor fifth.
#29
yea, it was pretty much acacia strain AFAIK

new ****ing trend though, HORRIBLE
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#30
Quote by 875875511
omg sigged

well, if you had any idea what a tritone was you'd stfu, but i guess i have to edjumacate a few of you. The definition of a tritone is two notes with a difference of three whole tones, or whole steps. Anyone with any basic theory knowledge can figure out that three whole steps makes a minor fifth(^see above^) Having said that there is no such thing as a diminished fifth, only minor fifth. You can augment a fifth making a minor sixth which i personally prefer to tritones. I'm guessing the norma jean joke is about memphis will be laid to waste, which is not a tritone, but is a minor second. You probably already knew that, but im just making sure. As for the band to first use a tritone in a breakdown i have no idea.My guess would be really old dillinger depending on what your definition of breakdown is.

Once again, lol tritone = minor fifth.

WHAT?! please tell me that was a joke. There is such a thing as a diminished fifth. There is no such thing as a minor fifth.

Interval |   Name                  | Note.(In C)
-----------------------------------------------
  1      |  Unison (root note)     |  C
 b2      |  Minor Second           |  Db
  2      |  Major Second           |  D
 #2      |  Sharp Second           |  D#
 b3      |  Minor Third            |  Eb
  3      |  Major Third            |  E
  4      |  Perfect Fourth         |  F
 #4      |  Augmented Fourth       |  F#
 b5      |  Diminished Fifth       |  Gb
  5      |  Perfect Fifth          |  G
 #5      |  Augmented Fifth        |  G#
 b6      |  Minor Sixth            |  Ab
  6      |  Major Sixth            |  A
 #6      |  Sharp Sixth            |  A#
bb7      |  Diminished Seventh     |  A
 b7      |  Minor Seventh          |  Bb
  7      |  Major Seventh          |  B
  8      |  Unison (Octave higher) |  C
 b9      |  Minor Ninth            |  Db
  9      |  Major Ninth            |  D
 #9      |  Sharp Ninth            |  D#
------------------------------------------------

See there, no "minor" fifth at all. But whats that?!! A DIMINISHED FIFTH! HOLY ****! A s for the whole tritone thing, I got mixed up. I was thinking triad, but yeah, the tritone spanes three whole tones so you got me there.
And you can't spell funeral
without fun
hope you had a good time
cuz now your life is done
#31
Quote by guitarwannabe16
The actual musical term for them is Diminished chords. All their doing is taking a diminished power chord and playing it at the lowest possible octave.

And its slowly ruining the originality pool of good metal on a daily basis.

Wrong.
A diminished chord is stacked minor thirds. There's no minor third in 1-#4. THerefore the tritone interval in itself and tritonic powerchords by extension (which are 1-#4-8) are inherently not diminished as they do not consist entirely of minor third intervals.

I don't think there's a -core band in existence that hasn't exploited the hell out of the tritone. The tritone is the easiest dissonant interval to use effectively.

Oh wow, I just read the ignorance in some of the posts above me and figured it was easier to edit than double post.

A perfect interval is any interval that inverts into another perfect interval. That's 1, 4, 5, and 8. When you invert a perfect fourth, it becomes a perfect fifth. When you invert a major sixth, it becomes a minor third and thirds and sixths are therefore not perfect. Subsiquently, a minor interval is any interval that inverts into a major interval and a major interval is any one that inverts into a minor interval. An augmented interval inverts into a diminished interval, and a diminished interval inverts into an augmented interval. Now watch closely as we analyze why there is no such thing as a minor fifth.

C -> G# is an augmented fifth. When we invert that, we get G# to C, a diminished fourth. If you read above, you can see that that follows the rules. Alright? Alright.

C to E# is an augmented third. When we invert that, we get E# to C, a diminished sixth (keep in mind that a MINOR sixth in this event is an E# to C# and a major sixth is E# to Cx). Rules still being applied.

Now, let's take a hypothetical minor fifth. C to Gb. Let's invert that and we get Gb to C, an augmented fourth. Rules broken! Minor intervals should not invert to augmented intervals. Therefore, MINOR fifths and MINOR fourths do not exist because when inverted they will invariably be inverted to augmented intervals. Welcome to theory.

In conclusion, if you're going to act like a bigshot, make sure you're RIGHT before you do.

Another edit: The chart above me is also wrong. When you raise a major interval by a semitone you get an augmented interval, IE augmented second (C -> D#), third (C -> E#), sixth (C -> A#), seventh (C -> B#), whatever. A minor interval that is lowered a semitone becomes a diminished interval, IE diminished second (C -> Dbb), diminished third (C -> Ebb), diminished sixth (C -> Abb), diminished seventh (C -> Bbb)...
A lot of otherwise very intelligent people never understand why intervals are named the way they are. I'm a very bored individual who took the time to figure it out himself here to explain it for you; there's a reason they're named the way they are, and this is it, I assure you.
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Last edited by Me2NiK at Jun 6, 2008,
#32
man, I just noticed the chart I posted referred to the raised second as a sharp second. Yeah, I need to get a better chart. I am confused a bit though Me2NiK. How does the minor<->major inversion work there. I got the augmented and diminished part, do they just work the same as the min-maj, or is there something I missing?
And you can't spell funeral
without fun
hope you had a good time
cuz now your life is done
#33
They do work the same. Think of minor and major as opposites, just as augmented and diminished are opposites. A minor interval will ALWAYS invert to a major one (and vice versa) just as a diminished interval will ALWAYS invert to an augmented one (and vice versa). They will also always invert to the opposite number, so to speak, of the scale (this doesn't apply if you're dealing with extended intervals but they're not really all that important from a theoretical standpoint), meaning 2 inverts to 7, 3 to 6, 4 to 5, 5 to 4, 6 to 3, and 7 to 2.

If you've got C to Db, that's a minor second. When you invert it, it becomes Db to C, a major seventh. D to F#'s a major third, and when you invert that it becomes F# to D - a minor sixth. C to F#'s an augmented fourth, and when you invert that you get F# to C, a diminished fifth. Get it?

EDIT: I can't believe someone actually had a discrepancy over this, but just to clarify, a trtione is a diminished fifth/augmented fourth. It is literally three tones (G -> A -> B-> C#\Db), hence the name tritone. They're often refered to as trtiones because for most practical purposes there's no need to distinguish between the dim5 and aug4 except for in chord theory, transposition and transcription (as well as generally being anal). Tritones are the only interval that are the exact same two notes inverted, both chromatically and enharmonically. Tritones divide an octave exactly in half and are probably, from a theoretical standpoint, the most important interval to understand.
People writing songs that voices never shared
No one dared
Disturb the Sound of Silence
Last edited by Me2NiK at Jun 6, 2008,
#34
Me2Nik is right.
Quote by ch715dallat
Necrophagist how could all you n00bs forget the best german metalcore band ever. i think theyre tech metalcore tho or sumfin
#36
and wtf @ people calling a breakdown "music played in half time"

(in this context) they're rhythmic chugs on guitar/bass which are accompanied by the bass drum following the pattern that's being chugged on guitar
#37
Nice triple post man.
Quote by ch715dallat
Necrophagist how could all you n00bs forget the best german metalcore band ever. i think theyre tech metalcore tho or sumfin
#38
Quote by uppercut613
and wtf @ people calling a breakdown "music played in half time"



breakdowns exist outside of hardcore.

even guitar focused music in general
#39
Quote by uppercut613
how?



if you listen to actual hardcore bands, you will notice that breakdowns(the "chug" ones) are rarely played.
#40
Bleeding Through used it in The Painkiller's breakdown, which is awesome.
Parkway Drive used it in Boneyards, which was awesome.

Emmure use it every fucking song, and they're the most boring metalcore band out there, along with Bury Your Dead.

In moderation, its fine.
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