#1
So some speakers can't handle the frequencies of a bass guitar as opposed to a normal electric..

so that brings me to the question is it safe to use a whammy pedal to go an octave or 2 down?..

is it the same thing as putting a bass into the amp?

I'm not sure what kind of speaker but the amp is a Peavey Classic 50..
#2
Yeah, you will be fine.
Quote by doggy_hat
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#5
Quote by TechnicolorType
okee thanks
but just curious, how come it's okay for an octave down effect but not for a bass guitar itself?

My guess would be that its the pickup frequency that is different. People wouldn't use the Whammy if it blew out there speakers.
Quote by doggy_hat
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#6
ooh yeah I was sitting there thinking "how's a bass different"
lol the pickups duh.. but yeah that's probably right.



thanks
#7
Good point, but is it not the frequencies themself,(selves?) that damage or blow out the amp. Still doesn't quite add up.
#9
Quote by robshredsky
Good point, but is it not the frequencies themself,(selves?) that damage or blow out the amp. Still doesn't quite add up.

It actually obviously is lol. Bass frequencies are different from guitar frequencies.

It could also be some sort of component/ converter in the pedal, but again I'm not positive. It wouldn't be as popular though if it blew out speakers.
Quote by doggy_hat
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#10
hehe yeah.. you'd see on the reviews a bunch of comments like
"OMG THIS PIECE OF CRAP BLEW OUT MY SPEAKUHS!"
and stuff..

I'm sure the thing's safe now but I'm just curious as to the whole thing
#11
Maybe there are little gnomes built into the pedal, in which their job is to keep the amp in tact whilst playing. That's why those low-end octave pedals are so cheap, no gnomes-
#13
Well, I think it has to do with the fact that it plays the lower octave and the higher octave at the same time. I could be wrong though.
#14
Basses don't blow up guitar amps.
Have you ever hear heard of this happening? Have you heard any evidence that basses blow up guitar amps other than people here saying that they do? I haven't. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I really doubt that it is as bad a thing to do as it is rumored to be.
The thing about the frequencies being different is wrong. Notes are just frequencies- whether you play a bass or an octave down guitar, it's the same frequency.
I have played both an OC-2 a POG running octave down full-tilt into anything from a Roland cube to a vintage marshall to a handmade boutique amp, and guess what? Nothing blew up. If it can handle a POG, it can handle a bass.
#15
it plays the higher at the same time..?

I don't hear anything but the lower when I use the whammy mode.. maybe in the harmony one but for the whammy..
#16
Quote by Roc8995
Basses don't blow up guitar amps.
Have you ever hear heard of this happening? Have you heard any evidence that basses blow up guitar amps other than people here saying that they do? I haven't.
The thing about the frequencies being different is wrong. Notes are just frequencies- whether you play a bass or an octave down guitar, it's the same frequency.
I have played both an OC-2 a POG running octave down full-tilt into anything from a Roland cube to a vintage marshall to a handmade boutique amp, and guess what? Nothing blew up. If it can handle a POG, it can handle a bass.


I always see threads on here of people whining about how bass = bad for amp speakers.. I've ran a bass through several of my amps though and nothing has ever happened.. but yeah maybe they're all morons?
#17
Quote by Roc8995
Basses don't blow up guitar amps.
Have you ever hear heard of this happening? Have you heard any evidence that basses blow up guitar amps other than people here saying that they do? I haven't. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I really doubt that it is as bad a thing to do as it is rumored to be.
The thing about the frequencies being different is wrong. Notes are just frequencies- whether you play a bass or an octave down guitar, it's the same frequency.
I have played both an OC-2 a POG running octave down full-tilt into anything from a Roland cube to a vintage marshall to a handmade boutique amp, and guess what? Nothing blew up. If it can handle a POG, it can handle a bass.

That's another conspiracy I have actually, basses don't blow out amps-just a myth some stupid guitarist made up to get his bass player from using his new JCM. It is true that bass guitars produce different frequencies though, proven by science.
#18
ive always wondered it too.
Quote by BryanChampine
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#19
Uh guys, you know timbre is made up of multiple harmonic frequencies right? The fundamental frequencies a bass guitar puts out are accompanied by higher and lower pitch frequencies. I'm assuming a suboctive pedal is simply not accompanied by lower frequencies as part of the timbre. So a bass note hiting 65hz might also be creating frequencies at 40hz (if the particular timbre does this) a sub octive pedal simply wouldn't do this.
#20
Quote by dullsilver_mike
Uh guys, you know timbre is made up of multiple harmonic frequencies right? The fundamental frequencies a bass guitar puts out are accompanied by higher and lower pitch frequencies. I'm assuming a suboctive pedal is simply not accompanied by lower frequencies as part of the timbre. So a bass note hiting 65hz might also be creating frequencies at 40hz (if the particular timbre does this) a sub octive pedal simply wouldn't do this.

thats a really really good point. i forgot about overtones and stuff
Quote by BryanChampine
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Chea_man is the best.
#21
Different frequencies =/= blown up amp.
The lower frequencies of a bass are harder to amplify and require more power.
"But," you say, "isn't that bad for the amp? Aren't I taxing the amp too much by using something that requires more power?"
Nope! Your amp produces a certain amount of power, and that's it. You can't pull extra out of it by using a different instrument. The only difference is, you'd have to turn the amp up to compensate for the lower freqency- but who makes a guitar amp that's not meant to be cranked?
...which brings me to the next point.
A frequency that's low enough to damage a speaker doesn't exist as far as I know- the speaker simply won't replicate it. What could possibly happen is that you'd get a lot of power at a frequency the speaker wasn't designed for- then you could blow it. But remember my first point! A bass is much less efficient through a guitar amp- so you're still limited output-wise. So unless you had a 60W amp and a 50W speaker, and you dimed the amp, I think you'd be fine. The factors limiting the ability of the amp to replicate the low-end of a bass effectively also protect the speakers from being blown up.
Keep in mind that the original AC30 had 6 inputs- it was designed specifically so that you could plug your whole band into one amp- guitars, basses, vocals, keyboard, everything. It didn't sound very good doing that, but it worked. Many fenders had four inputs for the same reason, although those were modified later for different purposes.
Last edited by Roc8995 at Jun 7, 2008,
#22
Quote by dullsilver_mike
Uh guys, you know timbre is made up of multiple harmonic frequencies right? The fundamental frequencies a bass guitar puts out are accompanied by higher and lower pitch frequencies. I'm assuming a suboctive pedal is simply not accompanied by lower frequencies as part of the timbre. So a bass note hiting 65hz might also be creating frequencies at 40hz (if the particular timbre does this) a sub octive pedal simply wouldn't do this.

I don't think so. IIRC the fundamental frequency is just that- the most basic (i.e. lowest) frequency. So a 65hz bass note could have any frequencies higher than 65, but not lower, since that's the fundamental frequency. That's why we have harmonic overtones but no harmonic undertones. The multiple harmonic frequencies you mentioned are all above the original note since you cannot create more energy (larger wavelength) than you originally had.
This is an interesting topic. I like it!
#23
Quote by Roc8995
Different frequencies =/= blown up amp.
The lower frequencies of a bass are harder to amplify and require more power.
"But," you say, "isn't that bad for the amp? Aren't I taxing the amp too much by using something that requires more power?"
Nope! Your amp produces a certain amount of power, and that's it. You can't pull extra out of it by using a different instrument. The only difference is, you'd have to turn the amp up to compensate for the lower freqency- but who makes a guitar amp that's not meant to be cranked?
...which brings me to the next point.
A frequency that's low enough to damage a speaker doesn't exist The speaker simply won't replicate it. What could possibly happen is that you'd get a lot of power at a frequency the speaker wasn't designed for- then you could blow it. But remember my first point! A bass is much less efficient through a guitar amp- so you're still limited output-wise. So unless you had a 60W amp and a 50W speaker, and you dimed the amp, I think you'd be fine. The factors limiting the ability of the amp to replicate the low-end of a bass effectively also protect the speakers from being blown up.
Keep in mind that the original AC30 had 6 inputs- it was designed specifically so that you could plug your whole band into one amp- guitars, basses, vocals, keyboard, everything. It didn't sound very good doing that, but it worked. Many fenders had four inputs for the same reason, although those were modified later for different purposes.



thanks alot man, not sure what else to say but that was really helpful!
#24
I'm afraid to flat-out say that you couldn't blow a speaker with a bass, just because if I were wrong and someone did manage to damage their equipment I'd feel bad. I can also envision some odd circumstances in which you could possibly cause some harm- say, using a strong boost in front of the amp.
However! Logically, technically, and when using my own personal equipment, my answer is that I can see no reason why you shouldn't be able to run a bass into a guitar amp.
More food for thought:
The Alnico Blue was famously the first speaker designed for guitar amps. The speakers they used before that were originally meant for radios, cars, TVs, what have you. The specs on the Alnico blue differ significantly from the previously used speakers only in EQ. I would have to imagine that those radio speakers they used before could handle bass notes
The G12H was designed as a bass speaker, but is frequently used as a guitar speaker. Again, the only difference is EQ. A lot of guitar amps have the G12H in them already, so clearly you could play bass through those amps with no problem.
The Bassman originally had plain old Jensen P10Rs. We use them for guitar now, but with a name like the Bassman...you get the idea.
I feel like I'm hogging the thread with my ramblings...somebody else post now, I'm going to bed.
Last edited by Roc8995 at Jun 7, 2008,
#25
Last post, I promise, but it's important:
I WAS WRONG!
...I think.
I thought about this a little more, and looked at the construction of bass cabs instead of just the speakers. One thing I noticed right away is that they allow for much less movement of the speaker than guitar cabs. Then it hit me- it's not the output that would do it, it's the physical movement of the speaker!
What could happen in an open-back guitar cab is that the voice coil would move a lot (lower freqency = high wavelength = bigger travel) and with no air to push it back it could, if you were unlucky, act like a trampline of doom, springing forward and backwards too far and too fast and slingshotting out of the speaker!
Needless to say, this would be very bad. So, if you have an open-back guitar amp, you can play bass through it, but not terribly loud and probably not a 5-string. Closed back should be ok to use with a bass. I still think the danger is exaggerated, having tested it myself. Still, it is there and it is real.
I like figuring things out- even if I have to admit I was wrong.
#27
Quote by Roc8995
Last post, I promise, but it's important:
I WAS WRONG!
...I think.
I thought about this a little more, and looked at the construction of bass cabs instead of just the speakers. One thing I noticed right away is that they allow for much less movement of the speaker than guitar cabs. Then it hit me- it's not the output that would do it, it's the physical movement of the speaker!
What could happen in an open-back guitar cab is that the voice coil would move a lot (lower freqency = high wavelength = bigger travel) and with no air to push it back it could, if you were unlucky, act like a trampline of doom, springing forward and backwards too far and too fast and slingshotting out of the speaker!
Needless to say, this would be very bad. So, if you have an open-back guitar amp, you can play bass through it, but not terribly loud and probably not a 5-string. Closed back should be ok to use with a bass. I still think the danger is exaggerated, having tested it myself. Still, it is there and it is real.
I like figuring things out- even if I have to admit I was wrong.


yeah this is sort of what I was going to say, also with a bass you can rip the cone of a guitar speaker, but it usually happens if you have a loud amp a crappy speaker and an opened back speaker. But even if you don't blow a speaker it will sound like ass without a speaker swap at the very least.
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#28
Basses will not blow out guitar speakers as long as they're in a sealed cabinet. John Entwistle used Pete Townshend's HIWATT stack for years and he never had any issues. Now if you play a bass through a open back cab, you will blow the speakers, since the speakers will unload on themselves fairly quickly. Sealed cabs have acoustic suspension which keeps the speakers from unloading on themselves, and it's also the reason they sound tighter than open back cabs. The Fender Bassman was originally a bass amp, but bass players soon learned that it could never be bass amp because the open back cabinet was just asking for a driver blowout, but it was a fairly popular guitar amp. So the final answer to the question "Will low frequencies destroy my guitar speakers?" Only if your speakers are in a open back enclosure.
#29
Quote by TubaBass89
Basses will not blow out guitar speakers as long as they're in a sealed cabinet. John Entwistle used Pete Townshend's HIWATT stack for years and he never had any issues. Now if you play a bass through a open back cab, you will blow the speakers, since the speakers will unload on themselves fairly quickly. Sealed cabs have acoustic suspension which keeps the speakers from unloading on themselves, and it's also the reason they sound tighter than open back cabs. The Fender Bassman was originally a bass amp, but bass players soon learned that it could never be bass amp because the open back cabinet was just asking for a driver blowout, but it was a fairly popular guitar amp. So the final answer to the question "Will low frequencies destroy my guitar speakers?" Only if your speakers are in a open back enclosure.



Why did you bump a 3 year old thread?

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