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#1
when alternate picking, do you pick from your elbow or from our wrist? im practicing not anchoring and want to actually practice it right instead of later down the road trying to break another habit.
#3
wrist

Edit: beaten drat!
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#4
it is easier if you pick with your elbow. that way, you can keep strumming without your hand getting tired...
#5
Quote by captain-falcon
it is easier if you pick with your elbow. that way, you can keep strumming without your hand getting tired...


It's also easier to hurt yourself if you pick like that.
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#6
It's kind of hard not to anchor when you play a full hollowbody...


But wrist ftw.
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#9
Quote by captain-falcon
it is easier if you pick with your elbow. that way, you can keep strumming without your hand getting tired...


NOWAY!! NOWAY!! Thats not right and its really REALLY UNACCURATE!! If you look pros on youtube you dont see any ones arm moving! Only wrist.

Herman Li
Sam Totman
Paul Gilbert
John Petrucci (!)
Alexi Laiho
Michael Romeo
Michael Angelo Batio

Its UNACCURATE and if your arm moves your only wasting your time on practising that. Thats tremol picking.
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#10
Quote by ushimir
NOWAY!! NOWAY!! Thats not right and its really REALLY UNACCURATE!! If you look pros on youtube you dont see any ones arm moving! Only wrist.

Herman Li
Sam Totman
Paul Gilbert
John Petrucci (!)
Alexi Laiho
Michael Romeo
Michael Angelo Batio

Its UNACCURATE and if your arm moves your only wasting your time on practising that. Thats tremol picking.


As much as I agree that arm picking is inferior to wrist picking, Alexi Laiho uses a fair bit of arm movement in his picking. He used to not do so as much in his earlier days (where his playing was much more clean), but nowadays he tenses his arm quite a bit. =/
#11
Quote by ushimir
Herman Li
Sam Totman

Paul Gilbert
John Petrucci
Alexi Laiho
Michael Romeo
Michael Angelo Batio


The ones in bold suck and you should not try to learn technique from them and I don't think anyone should actively try to mimic MAB.

Possibly the best example of picking technique on that list is Gilbert but Shawn Lane is missing so the list is automatically void.
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#12

Herman Li
Sam Totman


****.

Paul Gilbert


Only correct player here.

John Petrucci (!)


Uses a fair bit of arm. Very noticeable .

Alexi Laiho


Arm when fast.

Michael Romeo


Circle picker.


Michael Angelo Batio


Uses a decent amount of arm, although mostly wrist.
#14
Quote by ushimir
NOWAY!! NOWAY!! Thats not right and its really REALLY UNACCURATE!! If you look pros on youtube you dont see any ones arm moving! Only

Its UNACCURATE and if your arm moves your only wasting your time on practising that. Thats tremol picking.


If you're watching somebody who uses elbow in picking, it's pretty much
imperceptable. You can't tell. The movements are small and the wrist still moves.
It's just not moving entirely in the way you think it is.

My advice is, if you work on your elbow first, you'll have a MUCH better foundation
on which to build your picking. Your wrist will follow naturally from doing it this
way. Based on my own development, BOTH wrist and elbow provides the most
accurate, fluid and fast picking motion in the general ability to pick anything. Of
course, YMMV, but that's what I've found.
#17
ok. so. i have come to understand this

elbow picking is ok, but at higher speeds you want to use your wrist?
or is it the reverse.
#18
Generally either is ok as long as you don't have any excess tension in your playing.
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#19
Quote by moonhawk
ok. so. i have come to understand this

elbow picking is ok, but at higher speeds you want to use your wrist?
or is it the reverse.


It's not so much a speed issue as how far the pick needs to travel. Also, to
a fairly good extent, how you want to articulate the notes.
#20
Quote by fixationdarknes
As much as I agree that arm picking is inferior to wrist picking, Alexi Laiho uses a fair bit of arm movement in his picking. He used to not do so as much in his earlier days (where his playing was much more clean), but nowadays he tenses his arm quite a bit. =/


I think he deserves some recognition for what he has acquired lately.
Sure Blooddrunk might not have as many good songs as Hatebreeder or whatever (imo) but he's gotten very clean again.
Watch live perfomances from 2008 - Gigantour, NAMM 2008 or the likes. It's very clean.
And his tone is kinda yummy live. Though not on the Blooddrunk recording.
Therefore I hope to be able to switch the songs out with live recordings soon.

Anyways, wrist ftw. You should move you arm a little when moving to next string and such.
Always go by the rule; as little tension as possible, and if it hurts, it's wrong.
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#21
when using the arm you begin to call on the use of greater muscles which are built for power, not accuracy (the kind you need to target strings and make efficient movements). thus typically people tense up in an effort to be more accurate when picking from the elbow. thus-->elbow death.
#22
^ the arm muscles are fine from moving from string to string, whatever way you look at it. No-one, and i mean no-one, keeps a stationary arm and picks across all six strings with wrist only. The translatory muscles in the wrist don't even have the range of movement to do that, let alone deliver power at the either end of their reach.
#23
Quote by ushimir
NOWAY!! NOWAY!! Thats not right and its really REALLY UNACCURATE!! If you look pros on youtube you dont see any ones arm moving! Only wrist.

Herman Li
Sam Totman
Paul Gilbert
John Petrucci (!)
Alexi Laiho
Michael Romeo
Michael Angelo Batio

Its UNACCURATE and if your arm moves your only wasting your time on practising that. Thats tremol picking.


also look up some real pro's there are 2 people in that list i consider pro, gilbert and petrucci, and a further 2 i like but are not pro laiho and romeo. but i do agree that it should come from the wrist.

or if you want to be really amazing learn to circle pick too, using the thumb joint
#24
Quote by Helpy Helperton
also look up some real pro's there are 2 people in that list i consider pro, gilbert and petrucci, and a further 2 i like but are not pro laiho and romeo. but i do agree that it should come from the wrist.


Whether you consider them "pro" or not, i think you'll find they are professional musicians, which makes them "pro" regardless.

Not to mention that Romeo is insanely good, easily as good or better than petrucci.
#25
Quote by Helpy Helperton
also look up some real pro's there are 2 people in that list i consider pro, gilbert and petrucci, and a further 2 i like but are not pro laiho and romeo. but i do agree that it should come from the wrist.

or if you want to be really amazing learn to circle pick too, using the thumb joint


I'm sorry but how is Romeo anything less than a God? His technique is pretty much flawless and he's in a well respected and liked (and awesome) band.
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#26
Quote by PhantomNote
I think he deserves some recognition for what he has acquired lately.
Sure Blooddrunk might not have as many good songs as Hatebreeder or whatever (imo) but he's gotten very clean again.
Watch live perfomances from 2008 - Gigantour, NAMM 2008 or the likes. It's very clean.
And his tone is kinda yummy live. Though not on the Blooddrunk recording.
Therefore I hope to be able to switch the songs out with live recordings soon.


Well, I agree he has cleaned up a bit for NAMM. I did see him play at Gigantour though, and he was okay. Pretty good, but my point is that he was best in 1999 around Tokyo Warhearts time. Comparing live recording to live recording, his skill was noticeably better there, and that was when he used the least arm movement. And anyway, I was simply making a speculation that relates to the topic of this thread, not trying to get into a Laiho debate here--which believe me, I am the biggest Laiho fanboy. But that doesn't change the fact that he incorporates his arm when he plays faster (not always tense, but when playing live pretty tense), even in NAMM where he played pretty cleanly.

He has a pretty weird picking technique actually: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSb8VJVNVKI It's like he uses his shoulder joint to aid his wrist motion. It's not tense at all in that video, but the thing is with that technique he tenses up very easily at higher speeds.

Quote by Freepower

Not to mention that Romeo is insanely good, easily as good or better than petrucci.


For serious. Michael Romeo is one of the smoothest cleanest most badass players I've ever seen. IMO more clean and relaxed than Petrucci.

Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
I'm sorry but how is Romeo anything less than a God? His technique is pretty much flawless and he's in a well respected and liked (and awesome) band.


Seriously. Laiho isn't even really in Romeo's league at all.
Last edited by fixationdarknes at Jun 10, 2008,
#27
Quote by fixationdarknes
Seriously. Laiho isn't even really in Romeo's league at all.


+1 Romeo is on another planet with his technique, so smooth and controlled and he applies it so well. SYMPHONY X FTW!
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#28
i really think there is more to it than "being smooth and relaxed", ok i take the point about them being professional musicians so it makes them pro. I don't consider any of them in the same league as either gilbert or petrucci, both gilbert and petrucci have speed (i hate thinking like this because people think speed = good guitarist, wrong way to think imo), but they also have a lot of skill playing other genres, gilbert breaks into bluesy rock leads quite a lot, while petrucci has his own style. as for the other guys mentioned they play their own genre and (yes they are good at what they do) don't have as much exp and gilb and pet, just my opinion
#29
Romeo's just as fast as Gilbert with everything except picking, and Petrucci is slower than them both. Petrucci playing "his own style" doesn't mean he plays other genres, and Gilbert isn't that varied - i mean, he all he plays falls into "rock" (or at a stretch, some metal), same as all Romeo plays falls into "metal"...
#30
that exactly what i'm getting at, since when does playing fast make you a good guitarist, **** me it's the recognition given by retards damn joo is da fastest, jo are teh prO!!11!

and just to clear it up I think petrucci can actually play faster that gilbert, probably one of the fastest pickers there is (rusty cooly should be in there somewhere).

exaclty what i mean, gilbert can play metal, rock and some blues all to a pretty goo level, neve once heard romeo stray from his comfort zone, petrucci's "own style" included rock and blues also if you took the time to listen to some of his music.

getting off point you think i hate the other guys, i don't they are all really good guitarists, but not in the same "pro" league as gilbert and petrucci, face facts
#31
As far as I'm concerned Romeos tapping skills and use of the whole tone scale put him on the same level as the others instantly, without even looking at the rest of his grandiose skill base.

Petrucci's picking isn't actually that fast to be honest, it's just really, really consistent. Gilbert's picking hand is possibly the best left in the world and to be honest I can't remember the last time I heard Gilbert leave his 'comfort zone' as you put it, are there any clips of him playing Jazz?
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Last edited by Zaphod_Beeblebr at Jun 11, 2008,
#32
what about batio?, you all seem to love romeo (he is good), batio is probably a better technical guitarist, and that's what seems to be being argued here is technique, so why romeo not batio?
#33
Batio wasn't in the arguement. Admitted, he's fast, but he's boring as hell.

Romeo has good technique and he has very economical movement. In movement to output note-wise, romeo beats batio as using a decent bit less. He doesn't really stray from Prog Metal however.

Petrucci, while I like him more than the others, doesn't compare to Shawn Lane and Rusty Cooley in terms of picking speed. He uses arm a decent bit and he's less economical than Romeo. Petrucci and Romeo are about neck-and-neck speedwise i'd say, though Romeo can tap better.

Pablo Gilberto picks faster than petrucci and Romeo, but but he doesn't stray from hard rock at all.

Shawn Lane has godly picking technique. So does Rusty (but Rusty's boring - he stays in neoclassical shred all the time).

That being said, Guthrie Govan > all
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Last edited by Psychedelico at Jun 11, 2008,
#34
Quote by Helpy Helperton
what about batio?, you all seem to love romeo (he is good), batio is probably a better technical guitarist, and that's what seems to be being argued here is technique, so why romeo not batio?


I would say Romeo's better than Batio. *shrug*

As fast but more flexible.
#35
Quote by Helpy Helperton
what about batio?, you all seem to love romeo (he is good), batio is probably a better technical guitarist, and that's what seems to be being argued here is technique, so why romeo not batio?


They're both insanely good. In my eyes I wouldn't care to waste time trying to figure out "who's better" because IMO they are both good enough that I don't know or care.

Alright, well no matter how amazing Gilbert is at picking, that isn't making any of us better, so why are we even talking about all this obvious stuff anyway? I say we all go practice and increase our own picking speed.
Last edited by fixationdarknes at Jun 11, 2008,
#36
I use a combination. Lets do a quick break down of the people mentioned in this thread who are worthwhile to try to learn the technique of:
Paul Gilbert--Un-anchored, semi-oscillating wrist.

John Petrucci--Anchored, Combination of elbow and wrist.

Michael Angelo Batio--Anchored, some elbow used, oscillation with the wrist as his hand comes down almost perpendicular to the strings, and that's the only way to play from there. He's talked about his picking motion using oscillation at a clinic I was at, though he didn't use the term.

Michael Romeo--Looks to be a semi-anchored hand, using a combination of translation and oscillation (maybe) of the wrist with a tad of finger movement thrown in.

Alexi Laiho--Anchored, combination of translation and oscillation when slow, a bit more arm movement thrown in at speed.

Rusty Cooley--At times semi-anchored and at times completely not (generally plays with a free hand), at lower tempos uses wrist translation, at higher tempo uses a lot of elbow with still some wrist movement.

Shawn Lane--unanchored hand, uses a good deal of oscillation in his picking, at his fastest has some elbow movement thrown in.

Not mentioned, but Takayoshi Ohmura--Circle Picking , pretty much completely from the fingers.

That's how I at least see their picking.

My point--YOU CAN PICK HOWEVER YOU WANT. I personally believe that you should just do what is comfortable to you. All sorts of amazing guitarists have COMPLETELY different picking styles, and they all work. So I reiterate, just do what is comfortable for you, and work on making it better. Just to show the extreme of this,

http://youtube.com/watch?v=UVdyHs_IX1I
Marty Friedman. Still a great guitarist, but has one of the most un-conventional picking techniques ever.
#37
Quote by TheShred201
All sorts of amazing guitarists have COMPLETELY different picking styles, and they all work.


While that's somewhat true, the top speed pickers in that list that you listed are unanchored wrist pickers (Gilbert and Lane).
#39
my elbow hardly moves when i play, my picking hand most of the work unless im going really fast( flight of the bumblebee)
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