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#1
I was just thinking, it would be an excellent idea to have thread comparing the genres of metal by age.

As, old school death metal compared to "new-school" death metal, etc, etc.

Just a general discussion, so...first thing's first.

Old School Death Metal compared to current death metal, what are your guys' thoughts on the overall sound, playing, songwriting ability, and so on and so forth.

Also, do not come in here going "Onward to Golgatha is the best DM albu, nothing ever compares to it ever!," as statements like these are simply shallow-minded.
R.I.P. Charles Michael "Evil Chuck" Schuldiner
B. May 13 1967 - D. December 13 2001

Quote by eggsandham2
cuz ppl hate how power metal they are cuz they think its "gay" or w.e, which is immature and dirogitory
#2
Quote by Slaytanic1993
I was just thinking, it would be an excellent idea to have thread comparing the genres of metal by age.

As, old school death metal compared to "new-school" death metal, etc, etc.

Just a general discussion, so...first thing's first.

Old School Death Metal compared to current death metal, what are your guys' thoughts on the overall sound, playing, songwriting ability, and so on and so forth.

Also, do not come in here going "Onward to Golgatha is the best DM albu, nothing ever compares to it ever!," as statements like these are simply shallow-minded.


Slaytanic1993: The vanguard of interesting discussion in the UG Metal forum.

Anyway, seeing as you mentioned OtG I'll start there. I'm not going to declare anything as the best ever Death Metal album, but Onward to Golgotha is certainly very close to it. It's one of my long-time favourites because it's extremely heavy, evil, and knows exactly the right moments to slow down and to speed up. Incantation are obviously very serious about their music and it is reflected in OtG.

It's down mainly to personal taste, but I prefer 90-96 death metal alot more than modern death metal. There are stand-out bands post-96, but many of them emulate the old school (for example, Repugnant, Slugathor, Dead Congregation). Brutal death metal is a pretty retarded premise for a genre when you think about it, and while at times it can produce good music (Hate Eternal, for example) most of the time the bands end up sounding like wannabe grindcore acts, trying to outdo each other for pace or technicality or whatever without a passing thought about the quality or content of the music itself. The riffs are formulaic, the drumming is completely bland and the lyrics are useless.

The reason that I prefer old-school, is that it's more varied, its principle motivation isn't to be faster or more technical than other bands, and it's more rich in content. Obviously there are bands that fail at this style just like brutal death, but it seems that more old-school death metal bands are good than brutal death bands.
O what a disgrace if such a despised and base race, which worships demons, should conquer a people which has the faith of omnipotent God and is made glorious with the name of Christ!

The music winners listen to
#3
Newer death seems to be more commonly grind-influenced, while old is more of a thrash-influence, making todays death metal more fast paced and "shifty," but less focused on brutal segments, which is however not to say that newer death metal doesn't have any brutal segments, plenty of it does. Taking the obvious example, Cannibal Corpse's first album "Eaten Back To Life" versus their latest "Kill."
On the other hand, some other newer death metal bands are getting a more "core" influence. Take for example, "Through the Eyes of the Dead" or "A Different Breed of Killer," both bands are influenced quite heavily from some old school death bands, but have also taken from the growing "core" trend going on, incorporating breakdowns and metalcore-style riffing every now and then.
All in all, the comparison just leads me to look at newer death metal and older death metal as almost two different genres, the influences and trends affecting the newer genre in the same way they affected the old style, causing them to grow further apart as time passes.
#4
I completely understand the love for OtG.

And, I forgot to post my reasoning.

I usually find myself listening to albums released pre-2000. In the DM genre at least, I can find myself listening to newer albums in Black Metal, Power Metal, and Folk Metal. Though, older DM was usually simpler, I prefer it. As MH said wisely, nowadays, it's all about out-doing the other band and not creating a masterpiece on it's own.

Whilst new(er) bands like Necrophagist, Vale of Pnath, and (well...not new and good) Nile are producing technical music, two of those are releasing music that is...for lack of a better word: dull. The one that makes remotely interesting music is Nile, because they put something already in death metal to an extreme: Mythology and harmonic minor/melodic minor scaling.
R.I.P. Charles Michael "Evil Chuck" Schuldiner
B. May 13 1967 - D. December 13 2001

Quote by eggsandham2
cuz ppl hate how power metal they are cuz they think its "gay" or w.e, which is immature and dirogitory
#5
Quote by Slaytanic1993
I completely understand the love for OtG.

And, I forgot to post my reasoning.

I usually find myself listening to albums released pre-2000. In the DM genre at least, I can find myself listening to newer albums in Black Metal, Power Metal, and Folk Metal. Though, older DM was usually simpler, I prefer it. As MH said wisely, nowadays, it's all about out-doing the other band and not creating a masterpiece on it's own.

Whilst new(er) bands like Necrophagist, Vale of Pnath, and (well...not new and good) Nile are producing technical music, two of those are releasing music that is...for lack of a better word: dull. The one that makes remotely interesting music is Nile, because they put something already in death metal to an extreme: Mythology and harmonic minor/melodic minor scaling.


Nile - In Their Darkened Shrines is a very good album, not one that really appeals to me, but very good none the less. I appreciate it in the same way that I appreciate Opeth, which I think i've explained on here before.

I haven't listened to Necrophagist in years, and I haven't listen to VoP ever, so I won't make a comment on those.

Black metal is a very diverse genre of metal and pretty much anyone that calls themselves black can get away with it. There are legions of bands that really should be called crust or powerviolence that get away with being called black metal just because they associate themselves with the metal subculture rather than a punk one.

It's original premise in that you dont' have to be technically proficient to write music that's good and has meaning is a great one that has led to amazing bands like Branikald and Darkthrone making very good, very atmospheric music as well as leading to millions of bedroom black metal bands making abhorrent crap that is mainly making music so that people like the +BlackMetal+ chat on soulseek will classify them as elite.

That's the other thing, a massive emphasis on being elite in modern black metal. It's like the bdm bands trying to outdo each other for pace and technicality, black metal bands trying to outdo each other for being elite, being abrasive and being evil. But any band, absolutely any band, that sets out with that in mind is going to fail miserably and pathetically.

Good black metal isolates itself from the scene and any subculture, during the writing of it at least.
O what a disgrace if such a despised and base race, which worships demons, should conquer a people which has the faith of omnipotent God and is made glorious with the name of Christ!

The music winners listen to
#6
Depends, A lot of the older death metal acts are like the cornerstones of what everyone based releases upon since then and you have to give them respect. But they lack in the production and technicality attributes while newer death metal does. I find myself listening to the older death metal because even though the production isn't like top notch the brutality and the atmosphere are there, and the newer stuff is over produced and just a race to see who can go faster and lower.

Idk.

EDIT: In after books and books. Simple ftw!
bree bree look how fucking metal i am
#7
Overall, oldschool death metal was more like thrash than anything else (old Death etc, Posesses, old Suffocation, etc.). Newer death metal has branched out and taken on more and different influnces (think Nile, Behemoth, etc.)

To be honest I prefer newer stuff but only because I think it's really hard to listen to death metal with bad production (REALLY difficult to tell what's going on some of the time).
#8
Old school DM exist before what I call "The Race."

The Race is basically an easier way of me saying competition on all levels. To me, most, and I must stress, most modern death metal is a, and lack for a better word, a scene where all try to out do each other in this br00tul game of cock measuring. Who's the mos technical? Who's the fastest? The heaviest? Who's the most schizophrenic or "avant gard?" Now don't get me wrong, Old School death had its share of all of the above, but thats because the music, emotion, feeling, and composition called for it. It was natural part of the music that needed to be there to evoke the proper emotion from the listener.

Early Death Metal bands/fans did not say "Lets write us up some brutal technical death with some jazz influences." They got up on stage, grabbed a knife, and sliced open their chest cavity and pulled out their still beating heart for all to see. Thats what their music was.

Luckily, there is still good Death Metal being released. You just have to dig through a lot of ****. You can find metal in vain of the greats (Repugnant, Splatterhouse, Convulsions) and you can find Death Metal that is exist outside of the race or just all together destroys the race (Lykathea Aflame, Project Hate MCMXCIX, !T.O.O.H!, Necros Christos....)
A heathen, conceivably
but not,

I hope,
I’m not ashamed to be white
Vi doede ikke... vi har aldri levd
Barbarism is the natural state of mankind
Civilization is unnatural

It is a whim of circumstance
an unenlightened one
#9
Quote by TheMantipede
Newer death seems to be more commonly grind-influenced, while old is more of a thrash-influence, making todays death metal more fast paced and "shifty," but less focused on brutal segments, which is however not to say that newer death metal doesn't have any brutal segments, plenty of it does. Taking the obvious example, Cannibal Corpse's first album "Eaten Back To Life" versus their latest "Kill."
On the other hand, some other newer death metal bands are getting a more "core" influence. Take for example, "Through the Eyes of the Dead" or "A Different Breed of Killer," both bands are influenced quite heavily from some old school death bands, but have also taken from the growing "core" trend going on, incorporating breakdowns and metalcore-style riffing every now and then.
All in all, the comparison just leads me to look at newer death metal and older death metal as almost two different genres, the influences and trends affecting the newer genre in the same way they affected the old style, causing them to grow further apart as time passes.


Core has always had a profound influence on post-90s death metal. Listen to Siege - Drop Dead (this is pure core, no metal at all) then listen to Napalm Death - Scum (grindcore, heavily influenced by Siege, pretty much in the middle on the grindcore spectrum*), then Terrorizer - World Downfall (leaning very much towards the death metal side of the grindcore spectrum) then listen to Insanity - Death After Death, and then listen to any brutal death metal album. If those were the only core or metal albums you heard, and in that order, you'd be forgiven for thinking death metal was a kind of hardcore punk.


* What I mean by the grindcore spectrum is that there is a punk end and a metal end. Bands falling to the punk side would be stuff like Anarchus, Devastation of Life, and Sore Throat. Bands falling to the metal side would be stuff like Repulsion, Terrorizer and Unseen Terror.
O what a disgrace if such a despised and base race, which worships demons, should conquer a people which has the faith of omnipotent God and is made glorious with the name of Christ!

The music winners listen to
#10
As for Black Metal, I need a fucking novel to describe Black Metal.

To me, the best Black Metal bands are still the ones that exist entirely outside of just about everything. Deathspell Omega, Ildjarn, Arckanum, Burzum, and a few others. Bands that don't write music to meet ends needs or to even write metal really.

Real black metal musicians are almost always incredibly interesting human beings.
A heathen, conceivably
but not,

I hope,
I’m not ashamed to be white
Vi doede ikke... vi har aldri levd
Barbarism is the natural state of mankind
Civilization is unnatural

It is a whim of circumstance
an unenlightened one
#11
Quote by VampireGoldfish
As for Black Metal, I need a fucking novel to describe Black Metal.
To me, the best Black Metal bands are still the ones that exist entirely outside of just about everything. Deathspell Omega, Ildjarn, Arckanum, Burzum, and a few others. Bands that don't write music to meet ends needs or to even write metal really.

Real black metal musicians are almost always incredibly interesting human beings.


The Kvlt Book Ov Frostb1tten Gr1m Warriors?
R.I.P. Charles Michael "Evil Chuck" Schuldiner
B. May 13 1967 - D. December 13 2001

Quote by eggsandham2
cuz ppl hate how power metal they are cuz they think its "gay" or w.e, which is immature and dirogitory
#12
Why is OtG the best death metal release ever..?
bree bree look how fucking metal i am
#13
Quote by Baboom
Why is OtG the best death metal release ever..?


It's an overall crushing release.

Besides, some people consider it to be an epitome for traditional death metal album...

I don't but a lot do. I do find it to be obliterating, though.
R.I.P. Charles Michael "Evil Chuck" Schuldiner
B. May 13 1967 - D. December 13 2001

Quote by eggsandham2
cuz ppl hate how power metal they are cuz they think its "gay" or w.e, which is immature and dirogitory
#14
It's good, I don't know about obliterating though lol..

Sounds like any other classic death metal album.

Pretty much, except for the tempo changes.
bree bree look how fucking metal i am
#15
'Tis all about the atmosphere, man.

It sounds about as evil as a well-produced black metal album.

On that topic, Black Metal for, is/will be a consistent genre in how good the newer and older bands are.
R.I.P. Charles Michael "Evil Chuck" Schuldiner
B. May 13 1967 - D. December 13 2001

Quote by eggsandham2
cuz ppl hate how power metal they are cuz they think its "gay" or w.e, which is immature and dirogitory
#16
I've never heard of OTG...i take it that i should get it immediately?
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.
#17
Well, looking at some of my favourite Death Metal outfits:

Death ('83-'01)--> '92 median
Morbid Angel ('84-present)--> '96 median
Cryptopsy ('92-'08)--> '00 median
Nile ('93-present)--> '01 median

Avg Sample Median: '99, which is technically past old school death metal.
My Favourite eras from those bands are, other than Nile, before '99. I'd say I like more dm with an old school feel. However, bands like Augury and Necrophagist are still good for an occasional listen.
I've found Jesus
#18
Quote by Baboom
It's good, I don't know about obliterating though lol..

Sounds like any other classic death metal album.

Pretty much, except for the tempo changes.


Yea, I guess some people are going to appreciate it more than others. That is just about everything I want in a death metal album.
O what a disgrace if such a despised and base race, which worships demons, should conquer a people which has the faith of omnipotent God and is made glorious with the name of Christ!

The music winners listen to
#19
Quote by MHDrunk
Yea, I guess some people are going to appreciate it more than others. That is just about everything I want in a death metal album.

Then listen to it :P, I'm not here to tell you that you shouldn't just because I don't think its all that its hyped up to be.

It does sound pretty evil, imagine it with just a little bit better production.
bree bree look how fucking metal i am
#20
Quote by Baboom
Then listen to it :P, I'm not here to tell you that you shouldn't just because I don't think its all that its hyped up to be.

It does sound pretty evil, imagine it with just a little bit better production.


It wouldn't sound as as good with really good production, it would sound less organic.
R.I.P. Charles Michael "Evil Chuck" Schuldiner
B. May 13 1967 - D. December 13 2001

Quote by eggsandham2
cuz ppl hate how power metal they are cuz they think its "gay" or w.e, which is immature and dirogitory
#21
Quote by Contraband
Well, looking at some of my favourite Death Metal outfits:

Death ('83-'01)--> '92 median
Morbid Angel ('84-present)--> '96 median
Cryptopsy ('92-'08)--> '00 median
Nile ('93-present)--> '01 median

Avg Sample Median: '99, which is technically past old school death metal.
My Favourite eras from those bands are, other than Nile, before '99. I'd say I like more dm with an old school feel. However, bands like Augury and Necrophagist are still good for an occasional listen.


Good idea, I'm gonna work out my median

Autopsy (87-95) median - 91
Morbid Angel (84-08) median - 96
Incantation (90-08) - 99
Infester (90-94) - 92
Rottrevore (90-94) - 92
Imprecation (90-95) - 92.5
Suffocation (90-08) - 99

average: 94.5

right in the midst of the oldschool
O what a disgrace if such a despised and base race, which worships demons, should conquer a people which has the faith of omnipotent God and is made glorious with the name of Christ!

The music winners listen to
#22
Quote by Baboom
Then listen to it :P, I'm not here to tell you that you shouldn't just because I don't think its all that its hyped up to be.

It does sound pretty evil, imagine it with just a little bit better production.

Better production usually hampers production.
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.
#23
Some bands are suited by better production some are not. Onward to Golgotha's production suited it although it could have benefited from something like Dead Congregation's production
O what a disgrace if such a despised and base race, which worships demons, should conquer a people which has the faith of omnipotent God and is made glorious with the name of Christ!

The music winners listen to
#24
I don't mean like Metallica production lol, just a little bit better so you can actually HEAR it.
bree bree look how fucking metal i am
#25
I can hear it...easily...

R.I.P. Charles Michael "Evil Chuck" Schuldiner
B. May 13 1967 - D. December 13 2001

Quote by eggsandham2
cuz ppl hate how power metal they are cuz they think its "gay" or w.e, which is immature and dirogitory
#26
Quote by Baboom
I don't mean like Metallica production lol, just a little bit better so you can actually HEAR it.

Have you ever heard raw black metal? Cause if so, there is no way you'd say it was unhearable. Then again, i havn't heard it, so maybe i shouldn't talk.
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.
#27
Well yeah its music, but I mean like really know whats going on in the song.

Never ****ing mind, lol.
bree bree look how fucking metal i am
#28
Quote by The Evil Hat
Have you ever heard raw black metal? Cause if so, there is no way you'd say it was unhearable. Then again, i havn't heard it, so maybe i shouldn't talk.


This.

Any production values like OtG compared to savage/raw black metal...

That production (OtG) is godsend.
R.I.P. Charles Michael "Evil Chuck" Schuldiner
B. May 13 1967 - D. December 13 2001

Quote by eggsandham2
cuz ppl hate how power metal they are cuz they think its "gay" or w.e, which is immature and dirogitory
#29
When Raw Black Metal is done right, which it has been on occasion, it can be goooood.
A heathen, conceivably
but not,

I hope,
I’m not ashamed to be white
Vi doede ikke... vi har aldri levd
Barbarism is the natural state of mankind
Civilization is unnatural

It is a whim of circumstance
an unenlightened one
#30
I UNDERSTAND THAT MY OPINION COULD BE INTERPRETED AS DIFFERENT THEN YOURS AND I AM EXTREMELY SORRY.

k?
bree bree look how fucking metal i am
#31
Quote by VampireGoldfish
When Raw Black Metal is done right, which it has been on occasion, it can be goooood.

I never said it couldn't.

Quote by Baboom
I UNDERSTAND THAT MY OPINION COULD BE INTERPRETED AS DIFFERENT THEN YOURS AND I AM EXTREMELY SORRY.

k?

Nope, re-admittance into the Hessian clan requires a small fee (paid directly to me)
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.
#32
There is a lot of really good oldschool DM bands that start with I.
bree bree look how fucking metal i am
#33
Quote by Baboom
There is a lot of really good oldschool DM bands that start with I.

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.
#34
And, very few that came from Pennsylvania.

I love how basically the only good DM band from PA is a contender for having one of the best old-school DM albums
R.I.P. Charles Michael "Evil Chuck" Schuldiner
B. May 13 1967 - D. December 13 2001

Quote by eggsandham2
cuz ppl hate how power metal they are cuz they think its "gay" or w.e, which is immature and dirogitory
#35
Quote by Baboom
There is a lot of really good oldschool DM bands that start with I.


Infester
Incantation
Immolation
Imprecation
Impetigo
Insanity
Interment
Invocator

O what a disgrace if such a despised and base race, which worships demons, should conquer a people which has the faith of omnipotent God and is made glorious with the name of Christ!

The music winners listen to
#36
Yeah see! LOL.

PA had death metal? Lol, I was still sperm.
bree bree look how fucking metal i am
#37
I like my death metal mixed in w/ some thrash

Testament 94-present
Soilwork
Scar Symmetry
Arch Enemy

in that vein...

EDIT: Oh, I almost forgot
check the sig.
#39
Quote by guitgrinder
I like my death metal mixed in w/ some thrash

Testament 94-present
Soilwork
Scar Symmetry
Arch Enemy

in that vein...

EDIT: Oh, I almost forgot
check the sig.


Uh oh.

You don't belong here.
O what a disgrace if such a despised and base race, which worships demons, should conquer a people which has the faith of omnipotent God and is made glorious with the name of Christ!

The music winners listen to
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