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#1
Im sorry if this has been posted about before but im in the process of starting a new writing frame with my band and i wanted too incoraprate some features of math core (Talking Like Protest The Hero) into it as we play all styles of modern metal.The main i wanted help with is the scales as in what techniques are used, theory and such i dont care too much about the weird timings mind you, Any possitive imput is appreciated.

Cheers
#2
WTF is math-core? Are bands just taking words now and putting core behind it to define their generic sound? My new band is gonna be a little Medeski Martin and Wood-Core mixed with some super-grind fusion core!
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#3
Haha yehh tbh i dont really like all the sub genres myself but its all the complicated fast scale based riffs usaully has like weird time signiture changes in and changes in key. I hope that helps a little.
#4
USE TAPPING!!!

And weird timings are ESSENTIAL to Mathcore.
FEED ME MATHCORE

Quote by sashki

I also speak German, except no-one gives a shit.


GOOD MORNING SUNSHINE, AWAKE WHEN THE SUN HITS THE SKY
#5
sweeping arpeggios, idk, get to know alot of scales and ****


idk think fast, technical


match-core isnt really the best term
think more along the lines of pregressive

and guy above said it, change up the tempo

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#6
Ahh yehh Well i would like too learn like that really fast like 3-4 string tapping although i get soo pissed when people play that ****ing eruption tapping all the time.
#7
Quote by white99z
WTF is math-core? Are bands just taking words now and putting core behind it to define their generic sound? My new band is gonna be a little Medeski Martin and Wood-Core mixed with some super-grind fusion core!



Yes Core is the new trend.

no worries it will be dead in a few years just like Nu-metal


Edit: Wait what about Nu-Core?
#8
Tbh I just like the style off riffs and its alot too do with how our singer sings aswell tbh if i was asked i would just say we play heavy metal but you get put in too genres weither you like it or not XD
#9
Quote by white99z
WTF is math-core? Are bands just taking words now and putting core behind it to define their generic sound? My new band is gonna be a little Medeski Martin and Wood-Core mixed with some super-grind fusion core!


The labelings are getting somewhat ridiculous and your blantant stupidity only makes it worse.
Mathcore is more like progressive rock/metal with hardcore influences. And their isn't one generic sound for mathcore.
It's just the same as stuff that falls into the prog/avant-garde field. If it's generic, it doesn't belong there.
If music can be easily typecasted, it's generic. See where I'm going with this?
Ge

Also, I don't see progressive/technical/avant-garde as musical genres. They are adjectives to describe forward-thinking, complex, or mind**** music, in their respective order.

Protest isn't as abrasive as other so-called "mathcore" bands, and their time signatures aren't ultra-spastic. They are a good example of tech-prog metal that is somewhat accessible and make great tunes as well.

Theorywise, there's a lot of dissonance and crazy technical parts that are "mathy". I guess that's where the name comes from.
You could use cromatic (sp?) runs for riffs if you want the DEP style.

It all just depends on the band you wanna burrow some ideas from. Just look at their tabs to see what you would like to use for your band.
#10
I invented a new genre "Vegetarian Grindcore".
The texts revolve around cannibals that went vegan...
Amorphis
Quote by iceman_8319
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By the time you've read this post, 3 ninjas have had sex in front of you.

#11
Is math core basicly Technical metal and proggressive metal with core impliments?

If so, Odd time signitures, try poly rythymns [listen to meshuggah for reference] and a little originality with your riffs goes a long way.
#12
i dont care too much about the weird timings mind you


Math-core is defined by "weird timings".
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#13
Quote by EscapeToTheVoid
I invented a new genre "Vegetarian Grindcore".
The texts revolve around cannibals that went vegan...


AHAH, very good one
#14
the suffix -core when combine with any genre of music as its root, i.e. mathcore, grindcore, metalcore, indiecore, jazzcore, seems quite laughable to me.

in fact, i can almost see the genesis of this way of describing music in my head. imagine with me, if you will, three music lovers standing outside of a show waiting to go and see one of their favorite bands (that of course no person ever in the world has ever heard of). they start comparing notes on who's been listening to what. now one of the group doesn't seem to be measuring up, so in a desperate grasp for dignity he/she suddenly blurts out, "**** man, i've been listening to so much mathcore." silence. the other two are enthralled. they stare dimwitted into the face of the speaker.

Core? that means the center, also could mean the essence, spirit or soul. thus when someone describes a genre as x-core, they are stating with all pomposity that they are listening to the essence of x.

it's just another labeling ploy which borders on a marketing ploy. it gets people boxing in music and thinking that what they are listening to is somehow more "true", more "true to the scene", or more "authentic" than anything else.

put down the eyeliner, hairspray, and any other silly puppet-strung outfits and accessories. these labels are for dummies.


with reference to how you should play? just listen to the bands you like, figure out what you like about them, get into their feeling and play. the inspiration will come, you just have to work.
#15
I personally find 'mathcore' a pretty horrible genre, is it like 'behold... the arctopus' and stuff? if so, sure, odd time signatures are a trademark, but you don't always have to go overly complicated, you could keep it 4/4 but put different accent in, like this:


|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
|--------3-------3-------3--------------3-------3-------3-------3----|
|------2-------2-------2-------2------2-------2-------2-------2---2--|
|--0-1-----0-1-----0-1-----0-1----0-1-----0-1-----0-1-----0-1--------|


So the emphasis changes from starting on the '0' (E) to the '1' (F) by only playing 3 of the notes on the fourth time, then playing 5 on the eighth time to round up the notes to start the pattern again.
#16
Quote by white99z
WTF is math-core? Are bands just taking words now and putting core behind it to define their generic sound? My new band is gonna be a little Medeski Martin and Wood-Core mixed with some super-grind fusion core!

yeah its becoming like techno
#17
Quote by hb15577
yeah its becoming like techno
Techno is uncreative. It seldom has a main melody anymore, and if it does its completely ripped off from another song. A program with a random function can make the same sort of music and still sound half as good.

At least these new styles of metal have some creativity.
#18
Quote by demonofthenight
Techno is uncreative. It seldom has a main melody anymore, and if it does its completely ripped off from another song. A program with a random function can make the same sort of music and still sound half as good.

At least these new styles of metal have some creativity.


fair enough.

there is still good electronic music, but techno is just basically ****e.
#21
Tbh it was just easyer too get people to understand the style i was on about i will agree that the whole metal sub genre thing has gone too far with it all but like i said its easyer too get people too understand what style your on about that goin on youtube finding a song and telling everyone the parts you really like and want too encorperate.
#22
Quote by Zakk_Lp
Tbh it was just easyer too get people to understand the style i was on about i will agree that the whole metal sub genre thing has gone too far with it all but like i said its easyer too get people too understand what style your on about that goin on youtube finding a song and telling everyone the parts you really like and want too encorperate.
Mainstream metal post 1995 all sounds the same to me. Thrashing powerchords and so forth.
#23
william orbit (not the stupid techno remixes)

brian eno

boards of canada

there's alot of ambient stuff that i really really like (then again alot of it uses guitars too)

EDIT: additionally, there simply being a wikipedia article about something does not justify its legitimacy or have any bearing on its origins
Last edited by sisuphi at Jun 12, 2008,
#24
to the OP something sudden and fast would get the effect even if its just scales or sweep picking, and get a polyrhythm going that should significantly freak people out

think calculating infinity come up with something weird and paste it in the middle of a song that it in no way fits into

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Thread....is....full....of.....
-ding-
Fail.

QFT

Quote by \m/Gaz
is it like 'behold... the arctopus' and stuff?

no behold are usually classed as progressive metal, though they defiantly have a mathcore influence, the dillinger escape plan would be the best example of mathcore, though your tab is a good one
#25
why mathcore anyway, i play calculus-core and it sounds way better, no confusing time signatures or stale riffs, just good melody and earth shaking rhythm
#26
Quote by sisuphi


Core? that means the center, also could mean the essence, spirit or soul. thus when someone describes a genre as x-core, they are stating with all pomposity that they are listening to the essence of x.



I believe this -core suffix comes from Hardcore.

As far as mathcore goes, haven't really heard much. But TDEP have some cool tunes.
#27
It seems like all people do in MT anymore is argue irrelevant points in other people's topics. Now I know why I rarely post here. For god's sake, whether or not you like "-core" suffixes, they've become a part of modern music classification, so deal with it.

Mathcore is typically founded on bizzare time signatures and tempo changes, which are not only rather difficult to write in but even more difficult to perform live.

As with any other genre, your best bet is probably to study as much music as possible with those characteristics, and see if it influences your writing. Oh, and your drummer has to be able to count like crazy. LIEK CRAAAAAAAZY MAN!

And to the guy bashing electronica earlier, don't make me come over there.
#28
Quote by demonofthenight
Continue


I'll take this one, if he doesn't mind.

First a cheap plug, www.vampirefreaks.com/ghyt has some of my electronic stuff. Hate it, laugh at it, tell your friends not to listen to it. I do.

Now for the stuff that doesn't suck:

Aphex Twin/AFX/Richard D. James/Bradley Strider/Polygon Window/whatever the **** name he's using today:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3yHbf7XEXU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qwe10iDlFQo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hazywi9o2sA (skip to 3:50 if you get tired of those guys and gals arguing)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Az_7U0-cK0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tatccHVfuhA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuPNkhW7edk And any of the other AFX tracks this guy posted

http://www.myspace.com/blaerg
Any of those tracks, especially Titanium Cicada and Hermaphrodite Android's Cumshot Infinity.

http://www.vampirefreaks.com/plantaganda
This guy is chill, great tunes and he's a really nice guy.

http://www.vampirefreaks.com/proton42
My good friend and bandmates electronic project. Our band is actually more of the side thing, since his music as P42 is far superior to our noise as a band.

SHPONGLE! My god, Shpongle are amazing on so many levels! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1jPeG1LlaQ

A little old school here, an Edgard Varese piece: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9mg4KHqRPw

http://www.myspace.com/theresidents
They use a ****-ton of electronics now, not to mention the crazy **** they did back in the 60's and 70's...

http://www.myspace.com/venetiansnares
Just... yeah, this guy.

http://www.myspace.com/skinnypuppy
And these guys. OG industrial artists, these.

http://www.myspace.com/akais5000
SQUAREPUSHER! Yeah! A contemporary of Aphex Twin, and a CRAZY good bassist!

http://www.myspace.com/dym
Toronto represent! Dym ****ing rocks. Give them your moneys.

http://www.myspace.com/PORTISHEADALBUM3
Of course the trip-hop OGs Portishead deserve a nod here. Simply divine. And the band is the same age as me! Has to count for something, right?

Also Radiohead has done some crazy electronic stuff, like
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVkh1Z4AoNQ
And pretty much the whole rest of Amnesiac.

And if you want I can get my friend(the one from Proton 42) to recommend you some more, he knows a lot more than I.

So yeah, there are lots of good electronic bands. You just need to know what to look for. Plus a lot of bands incorporate electronic stuff into their music. Like Danny Carey from Tool's trigger pads or the electronic sections of some songs by Tera Melos(http://www.myspace.com/teramelos). And the band Battles(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PbYLafK1OU), who use so many effects and keyboards and looper pedals they're pretty much an electronic band.

Now techno, techno does suck. It's the pop-punk the the electronic music world. Like anything you hear on the radio, that's techno. EEEEWW.


EDIT: I totally forgot to actually contribute to the thread!

'Kay, the -core suffix is used to denote that the music takes influence from hardcore, which is in my eyes is basically embodied by heavyness that doesn't fit into the metal category. So math core is more aggressive and violent math rock.

And of course the math thing comes from the fact it's usually very complex.
I'm pretty sure(not 100% positive though) that Don Caballero was the first band to be called math rock, something about a guy they knew would pull out a calculator to figure out if the song was good... like the whole nintendocore thing that HORSE the band started, it's more of a joke that won't ****ing die.

So yeah, to the TS, get some crazy good legato chops down, get really good at counting odd times, learn to string skip like a mother****er, and most importantly learn to use dissonance REALLY WELL. Tension is very important to mathcore type stuff. It should sound like it's teetering of the very brink of being just noisy distortion with a bunch of off time blastbeats behind it.
Last edited by Wonthefu at Jun 14, 2008,
#29
don't diss techno. there are some epic songs out there that will **** on basic 4-5 person bands. but of course there's a lot of crap. but just because there's a lot of crap in say, rock, i don't say rock sucks. i mean honestly how many "4-chord" songs have you heard that just reek of unoriginality? yeah there's the same thing with techno, the massive pile of **** thats just 4 thumps over and over, but if you're gonna dis techno for that reason, then go ahead and dis every other genre under the sun while you're at it. if you really don't know where to start with techno, i suggest a free radio site http://di.fm. there are plenty of subgenres and you may find yourself hooked. or you may not. but honestly, it's that attitude that gets me angry when people say something like "I LOVE ALL MUSIC EXCEPT COUNTRY AND RAP LOLZ" i mean if you really feel that way, then its cool, but u might not know what you're missing out on... just my 2 cents.

and i noticed someone mentioned radiohead doing techno. take a listen to amnesiac and kid A by radiohead for some unique and moving techno. i love shpongle too.
#30
I never heard of math core before..but for some reason it makesense to me

It's living with someone that has bipolar.
Some of it I actaully like..probably i can relate to due to conditioning
from living with a bipolar person.lol

Some of it is WTF ???..at the moment becuase I've nevered listened to
music like at before. it's not all bad, it's not all good.

hell, I don't even like half of the stuff the satch puts out and I idol
the guy.

Alison kruss and Union station do some seriouse picking sometimes
#31
Quote by Ordinary
I never heard of math core before..but for some reason it makesense to me

It's living with someone that has bipolar.
Some of it I actaully like..probably i can relate to due to conditioning
from living with a bipolar person.lol

Some of it is WTF ???..at the moment becuase I've nevered listened to
music like at before. it's not all bad, it's not all good.

hell, I don't even like half of the stuff the satch puts out and I idol
the guy.

Alison kruss and Union station do some seriouse picking sometimes


What the **** are you talking about?
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#32
^^^^
wtf are you talking about ???

half of the stuff you write about dosn't even make any sence to me

so ...wtf are you saying ?
#33
Quote by Ordinary
I never heard of math core before..but for some reason it makesense to me

It's living with someone that has bipolar.
Some of it I actaully like..probably i can relate to due to conditioning
from living with a bipolar person.lol

Some of it is WTF ???..at the moment becuase I've nevered listened to
music like at before. it's not all bad, it's not all good.

hell, I don't even like half of the stuff the satch puts out and I idol
the guy.

Alison kruss and Union station do some seriouse picking sometimes

Are you permanently drunk?

+1 On Aphex Twin being made of win. Come To Daddy is possibly the most evilest music video/song I've ever seen/heard, and completely blows a large amount of Black Metal out of the water in terms in of sheer evilness.
First time I ever saw the video for Window Licker, I was watching Kerrang! at about 2 in the morning. It was seriously disturbing.
Call me Batman.
Last edited by J.A.M at Jun 14, 2008,
#35
Your posts are seriously confusing, thats what.
Call me Batman.
#36
and wtf is +1 mean ?
...some retarted girly enternet "i love you" signal. Send me your e-mail address
and tell me when you're daddy ain't home ..so you can go over and do the
hoki poki ?
#37
Quote by Ordinary
and wtf is +1 mean ?
...some retarted girly enternet "i love you" signal. Send me your e-mail address
and tell me when you're daddy ain't home ..so you can go over and do the
hoki poki ?


..

Ok, I let's never communicate with each other ever again.
Call me Batman.
#38
Flat fifth chords(intro to bloodmeat) tapping obviously, and they generally stick in the open minor key of their tuning, but also play the same shape on every string and don't use scales in certain parts. For example play 18 16 15 on every string starting with the highest string. They use pentatonics for most groove riffs also. Odd time signatures/sporadic tempo changes, (it's the reason it's called math-core).


If I think of anything else I'll add it.
Last edited by Matt Chavie at Jun 14, 2008,
#39
[quote="'Anno[fzk"]']The labelings are getting somewhat ridiculous and your blantant stupidity only makes it worse.

Hey, man, he was making a joke! Jokes are supposed to make people happy, so why the hostility? This is the internet, for christ's sake- it's not like any of the people should get to you.

Quote by 'EscapeToTheVoid'
I invented a new genre "Vegetarian Grindcore".
The texts revolve around cannibals that went vegan...


That's ****ing hilarious you should say that- on the subject of ridiculous "core" names, there is a "Gore-Core" band called Cattle Decapitation. All the members are Vegan, and the purpose of their music is to protest the consumption of animals!
#40
About the scales, look up the two diminished scales and the whole-tone scale, very weird sounding. Add chromatics, and try to sound as if you're almost just playing random out of key notes. And of course, do this in a very br00tal way to sound like t3h evlZ! Distortion is your friend.
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