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#1
I've heard different things, but my guitar teacher told me the only way to get good distortion is to "scoop" the mids or put them at 0.

What should I do?
#2
when your playing by yourlself scooping mids can sound great.
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#4
scooping mids will give you a good metal tone. alot of people will say not to, because the guitar is a mid-range instrument and scooping mids will make you not cut through the mix. i think both points are valid, but is it the only way to get good distortion? no.
#6
Quote by HeavenlyVirus
I love having my mid all the way up and treble and bass virtually at 0.


and I love teh metal

i dont think that would sound very good either.
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#7
Quote by dlmebag
I've heard different things, but my guitar teacher told me the only way to get good distortion is to "scoop" the mids or put them at 0.

What should I do?


Scooping your mids a bit can help give your tone more of that metal grunt but you really do have to be careful or you will never be heard in a band/jam situation.
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#8
Scooping is when you lower your mids.

It sounds great when you're practicing alone. But you will find that in a band setting your tone will sound all muddy and undefined.
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#9
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Scooping your mids a bit can help give your tone more of that metal grunt but you really do have to be careful or you will never be heard in a band/jam situation.


He's right. Just keep it subtle and you should be ok.
#10
I tend to "relax" the mids rather than scoop em out. I don't like an overly "honking" kind of drive. I tend to set............ bass 6.5 mids 5 treble 7
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#11
Quote by MrCarrot
Get a new teacher.


+1

Or at least never listen to him for advice on tone...
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#12
a l,ot of people do this for recording, but never ever EVER onstage, as this will make you sound C**P. trust me, i know from experience with lots of bands. usually a mid mid-range, low low-end and high high-end is a good guitar setting, elt the bass handle bass, you tackle mid and high. if you're on your own, then add a bit more bass to the mix. more mid if you're the only guitarist.
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#14
Scooping your mids will give you a heavier sounding distortion, but as to whether or not this makes it sound "better" is a matter of opinion, the sound that I find satisfying to me right now is achieved by having my bass and treble at about twelve o'clock and my mids at about three o'clock. so scooping your mids isn't necessarily going to give you the sound you want...
#15
Most of the bands out there only scoop there mids because there running MESA's which are insanely mid heavy in the first place... People got wind to these bands settings and interviews of these bands saying yea man i scoop the mids. So everyone and there momma started doing it. Not knowing the full reason why it was done in the first place.

That being said it depends on your amp and what you like in your tone. When i first started out eveyone told me to scoop them even a guy that had been playing for 18 years. Moral of the story dont take to heart everything that is said, do what you like and what sounds good.

And as a prefrence i prefer boosted mids usually keep them at 6-7...
Last edited by IbanezPsycho at Jun 12, 2008,
#16
^ Disagree.

I'd say it came from human stupidity and a want to know what will happen.

You've got 3 knobs in front of you, you wanna see what happens when you turn them all each way.
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#17
Quote by dlmebag
I've heard different things, but my guitar teacher told me the only way to get good distortion is to "scoop" the mids or put them at 0.

What should I do?


is ur teacher by any chanc named "james hetfield" or "kirk hammet" cuz they told me to scoop my mids to, and i said "mids own"
#19
Actually the original mid scoop idea was put about by Metallica but it's nowhere near that simple: they use about 50 bajillion rhythm tracks on the studio recordings and live they don't scoop the mids anyway. The only album that actually had a simple "scooped" sound was ...And Justica For All and the production on that album was frankly terrible.
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#20
Quote by MrCarrot
^ Disagree.

I'd say it came from human stupidity and a want to know what will happen.

You've got 3 knobs in front of you, you wanna see what happens when you turn them all each way.


Yup your are correct... When i first started out i just robbed settings and listened to what others that have been playing for years had to say. It wasnt until i tweaked the knobs and got more comfortable with my amps that i found what i really liked. Also i turned each knob when i was starting out and couldnt get anything i liked out of it. And being your always looking for that instant gratification when your a beginner and scooped mids is that instant gratification you tend to always fall back on that.....
#21
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Actually the original mid scoop idea was put about by Metallica but it's nowhere near that simple: they use about 50 bajillion rhythm tracks on the studio recordings and live they don't scoop the mids anyway. The only album that actually had a simple "scooped" sound was ...And Justica For All and the production on that album was frankly terrible.


Yup that was the band lol.... Also slayer and dimebag used to scoop them but alot of people didnt know they have a eq infront of there amps boosting the hell out of the mids and a following eq cleaning up everything...
#22
Quote by MrCarrot
Get a new teacher.

+1!

Quote by david_highland
Scooping your mids will give you a heavier sounding distortion

I completely dissagree. Amps don't sound fizzy and horrible when the mids aren't scooped, adding in mids actually adds a bit to your low end, making chugs much more better imo.

Most people think I scoop my mids on my Mark IV, that thing has so much mids, I don't think it's possible to scoop them all out Anything above 5 is way too much mids, even with the GEQ set at a V.
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#23
Quote by IbanezPsycho
Yup that was the band lol.... Also slayer and dimebag used to scoop them but alot of people didnt know they have a eq infront of there amps boosting the hell out of the mids and a following eq cleaning up everything...


Slayer actually don't, the typical Slayer tone has an lot of mids in it to give it that boxy crunch that is so typical of them.

Dimebag is another story though...mids scooped all over the place terrible tone really.
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#24
you have a bass, mid and treble frequency knobs, twist each one in a different way with each other and stop until you find something you like. do what sounds good to you, not what everyone else says, because you're just going to get 50 different opinions.
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#25
Quote by dlmebag

What should I do?


start out with all of your tone controls at half way. then adjust each one up and down and see what it does. find out what YOU like
#26
My take on mids is that, yes, alone it's nice, in a band not so much. However, I find that when you talk to people about this, it's generally polarized into "keep them" or "scoop them" camps. However, it's not completely polarized, as, like me, some would just keep them around 5.

Mids are really to taste, just like reverb.


Unless you're playing surf, then you need spring reverb all the way up.
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#27
I prefer Mids to treble tbh.

My setting is generally Bass: 4 Mid: 8 Treble 4
#28
For some reason I LOVE having lots of mids. On my lead channel, my mids are at 8, and the Graphic EQ is near max (actually, i think it's AT max). For me, the more mids I have gives me a crunchier, more purcussive tone that lets chord rip through harder. And I do, at times, play TEH BRUTALZ, but mainly various forms of Metal and Hard Rock. Plus my amp has a ton of bass on hand anyways (I have it at 4, and when I get the volume past 2 I can feel the air from 5 or 6 feet away.), so I find no need to rob the amp of mids.
#29
Quote by blairbondy
is ur teacher by any chanc named "james hetfield" or "kirk hammet" cuz they told me to scoop my mids to, and i said "mids own"


Well I said, kirk hammett and james hetfield must be right because they have been playing and writing amazing songs for uhhh... 25 years now?

And youve been playing for.... Have you even written anything yet?
#30
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Actually the original mid scoop idea was put about by Metallica but it's nowhere near that simple: they use about 50 bajillion rhythm tracks on the studio recordings and live they don't scoop the mids anyway. The only album that actually had a simple "scooped" sound was ...And Justica For All and the production on that album was frankly terrible.

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#31
Quote by MatrixClaw
+1!


I completely dissagree. Amps don't sound fizzy and horrible when the mids aren't scooped, adding in mids actually adds a bit to your low end, making chugs much more better imo.

Most people think I scoop my mids on my Mark IV, that thing has so much mids, I don't think it's possible to scoop them all out Anything above 5 is way too much mids, even with the GEQ set at a V.

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#32
Scooping ever so slightly doesn't sound so bad, but making it like

Bass: 10
Mids: 0

Is horrid, for anybody.
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#33
Yeah, scooping your mids partially can be tasteful sometimes (especially when you have a mid heavy amp), but COMPLETELY scooping them out sounds bad in a band setting.
I usually have my mids dimed, but once in a while i'll roll it back to 5 just for fun.
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#34
Here's what i like to do on "New Amp Day"

I put everything except level and gain at 5 and/or 12 o'clock. Then I play a few things, adjust the knobs to what it's lacking and what it's got to much of. Generally I start with the mids.

On my Crate, I have the mids @ 10 and the High's @ about 7 and bass about 4.5 on the overdrive channel. Great for the band I play with. Then on the High Gain channel I "shape" it up to about 6, which generally scoops the mids to about 4. Which gives me a great metal tone. So it depends on your tastes. Dimebag preferred scratchy boomy tone whilst i prefer more melodic majestic tones.
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#35
You shouldn't go below 3 if you ask me.
I'm a boosted mids person, Mids on 10 for me.
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#36
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr

Dimebag is another story though...mids scooped all over the place terrible tone really.

Actually his mids are boosted. It's the amp.


Saying "scooping is bad" is a completely false and dumb thing to say. Many amps have a ****ton of mids, Marshalls, hot rodded marshalls, Mesa's Mark IV, Peavey 5150...well, basically any british flavored amp. Scooping the mids is perfectly acceptable if you're trying to get a desired tone.

Scooping on American and German toned amps usually spells disaster. Rectos, Engl's, Diezels, Framus all have a very flat natural sound to their EQ. Boosting the mids is required for them to cut.

After owning quite a few heads and using multiple cabs with extreme differences, such as a sealed 2x12 next to a ported 4x12, or ported 2x12, you can get extreme changes in your sound. My G-flex has a natural scoop to it's tone, while the Carvin legacy has an ultra strong treble and upper midrange, with a flabby bottom end. My B-52 has V12 legends, which have a smooth midrange with every bit of punch the V30's have, the bottom, top and mid sound perfectly blended.

It's not about whether or not you cut the mids on the amp, it's whether or not your overall tone has a strong midrange.

Quote by blairbondy
is ur teacher by any chanc named "james hetfield" or "kirk hammet" cuz they told me to scoop my mids to, and i said "mids own"


Metallica scooped from Kill em All - And Justice for All. They used Marshalls from Kill em all to Master of puppets and their tone had a strong midrange...yet they scooped, why...IT'S A MARSHALL. When they switched to Boogies, for justice, their tone sucked horribly, why...they scooped MESA.
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#37
Quote by Moe.
You shouldn't go below 3 if you ask me.
I'm a boosted mids person, Mids on 10 for me.


Yay! Another mid-dimer!

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Last edited by darkarbiter7 at Jun 13, 2008,
#38
Quote by steven seagull
Justice is this, justice is that...justice is 9 minutes long and recorded in a cupboard full of fluffy pillows

+1 and Sigged. I love the album, but I can't stand to listen to it unless I have a graphic EQ to boost the bass and mids.

On topic, I'd actually reccomend that you start with everything dimed, play with a band, and just take out frequencies that are annoying high or are interfering with other instruments. You'll probably end up with the bass between 5 and 7, and mids anywhere from 4 to like 8 depending on your style and how your amp is voiced. Highs are really a matter of taste and how scratchy your guitar is to begin with.
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#39
Quote by Missingno476

On topic, I'd actually reccomend that you start with everything dimed, play with a band, and just take out frequencies that are annoying high or are interfering with other instruments. You'll probably end up with the bass between 5 and 7, and mids anywhere from 4 to like 8 depending on your style and how your amp is voiced. Highs are really a matter of taste and how scratchy your guitar is to begin with.


Best to start with everything at 12:00. With the EQ's boosted beyond 3:00 they can induce weird noises, such as excessive treble causing extreme microphonics, especially when paired with high gain and presence being cranked.
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#40
To me, it depends on the situation. (this is of course hypothetical because I play blues, not metal) If I was in a band with 2 guitarists, I would want one person to scoop and the other to boost. That way, we wouldn't drown each other out, and we would each have a more dynamic, distinctive tone. Lamb of God, Down, and Corrosion of Conformity do this.

Now, if I was the ONLY guitarist in a metal band, I would boost the **** out of my mids, to bring out the bassist and make the ensemble sound fuller. Also, in a one guitarist situation, the guitarist has more responsibility, and therefore needs a fuller sound, which mids give.

My .02
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