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#1
I was thinking of ways to make my solos more interesting, and I was wondering if I can solo in the key of the root, fifth, or third. I know if the songs in A you can obviously solo in A, but would playing a scale with a root note of D work too? This is really cool if I'm right, just curious

Up the Punx!
#3
huzzah, modes are awesome, try playing G mixolydian, or E phrygian over a C major vamp

edit:
in response to ouchies, it does and doesnt work. theoretically no. but, every now and then playing a note outside of a scale sounds good in a key, to add color. thus, its alright to screw around with that. again though, you can use modes that way
Quote by beadhangingOne
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Last edited by EZLN libertad at Jun 12, 2008,
#4
Quote by EZLN libertad
huzzah, modes are awesome, try playing G mixolydian, or E phrygian over a C major vamp


No. You have no idea what you're talking about.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#7
The notes you play will relate to the tonal center of the progression. If you're playing over a C major progression, you're not playing "G" anything.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#8
Quote by Archeo Avis
No. You have no idea what you're talking about.


howso?

edit: well.......a lot of times you see it talked about that its okay to play G mixolydian over C major, and it all depends on how you learned modes, for instance if you learned them as i did, where you treat every mode as its own scale, then it makes sense to think of it that way, whereas if you learned modes as being extensions of one scale, then that wouldnt make sense
Quote by beadhangingOne
There is no music but metal and muhammad is its prophet.
Last edited by EZLN libertad at Jun 12, 2008,
#9
Quote by EZLN libertad
howso?


You don't know what modes are, and you need to read the theory sticky. In all likelihood, you aren't ready to be worrying about them.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#10
im pretty sure i know what modes are...
Quote by beadhangingOne
There is no music but metal and muhammad is its prophet.
#11
Quote by EZLN libertad
im pretty sure i know what modes are...


Your previous post says differently.

.a lot of times you see it talked about that its okay to play G mixolydian over C major, and it all depends on how you learned modes, for instance if you learned them as i did, where you treat every mode as its own scale, then it makes sense to think of it that way, whereas if you learned modes as being extensions of one scale, then that wouldnt make sense


If you are playing C major, then you are playing C major. G mixolydian has nothing to do with it, and has nothing to do with the TS' question. You don't know what modes are, or how they're used.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#12
how does my previous post specifically mis-interpet modes?
Quote by beadhangingOne
There is no music but metal and muhammad is its prophet.
#13
Quote by EZLN libertad
how does my previous post specifically mis-interpet modes?


By saying that you can play G mixolydian or E phrygian over a C major chord. You can't.
Get out, and read the theory sticky.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#14
explain to me why you cant
Quote by beadhangingOne
There is no music but metal and muhammad is its prophet.
#15
You need a different chord underneath to bring out the modes sound.
Call me Batman.
#16
Quote by EZLN libertad
explain to me why you cant


Because you're playing over a C major chord. Read the damn theory sticky.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#18
Quote by \m/Gaz
Out of interest, playing 'F something' would work with a piece in the key of C right?


F lydian in C would work, contrary to what archeo is arguing
Quote by beadhangingOne
There is no music but metal and muhammad is its prophet.
#19
Quote by Archeo Avis
Your previous post says differently.


If you are playing C major, then you are playing C major. G mixolydian has nothing to do with it, and has nothing to do with the TS' question. You don't know what modes are, or how they're used.


Well just a question..

If you were play a G mixolydian vamp, wouldn't that still be in C Major? C Major is a scale and isn't that more broad..

So basically you can playing in C Major you can be playing G mixolydian.

But if you were playing over a C ionian progression, it has to be ionian.


C Major can imply any modal vamps within that key. C Ionian is its own modal vamp.

Right? Just writing down a few thoughts.. not that it really matters all that much
#20
I know basic theory, and haven't been able to try this on my own yet because my damn guitar's in the shop.
Up the Punx!
#21
Quote by EZLN libertad
F lydian in C would work, contrary to what archeo is arguing


If you want to play F lydian, you need a tonal center of F. Stop posting misinformation, and get out of the God damned thread. If you're playing over a C major chord, you could try C lydian, if you like.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#22
Quote by ouchies
Well just a question..

If you were play a G mixolydian vamp, wouldn't that still be in C Major? C Major is a scale and isn't that more broad..

So basically you can playing in C Major you can be playing G mixolydian.

But if you were playing over a C ionian progression, it has to be ionian.


C Major can imply any modal vamps within that key. C Ionian is its own modal vamp.

Right? Just writing down a few thoughts.. not that it really matters all that much


yes, right
Quote by beadhangingOne
There is no music but metal and muhammad is its prophet.
#23
Quote by EZLN libertad
yes, right


G mixolydian has a key signature of C major. That is to say, it has no sharps or flats.
If your progression is built from the C major scale, you are not ****ing playing G mixolydian. You do not have a ****ing choice of "F lydian" or "G mixolydian" or "E phrygian". You don't know what you're talking about, and you need to shut up.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#24
Quote by EZLN libertad
F lydian in C would work, contrary to what archeo is arguing


Well technically it wouldn't work as F lydian should resolve to F. And if you played an F over C it would want to resolve a half step down to E.


It would work if you used your ears and not theory to resolve. The point is that you should be calling it C Ionian or C Major, not F Lydian. Do you get it?
#25
explain to me why that doesnt work specifically though.

what will make G mixolydian sound bad over a C major vamp

or maybe youve never tried doing that?


edit: to ouchies, im not saying that im playing a song in the key of F lydian, im saying that im playing it in C major, and im throwing in an F lydian run or arpeggio to add color
Quote by beadhangingOne
There is no music but metal and muhammad is its prophet.
#26
If you play the notes C D E F G A B over a C major progression, in any order, anywhere on the neck, you are playing C major. End-o' story.

There is no arguing against this. It is fact.

The reason people think contrary to this is because they learn modes as shapes. "The notes C D E F G A B played at fret 3 is G Mixolydian and at fret 10 is D Dorian." This is wrong. Depending on the context, the backing chords, those patterns could be any of the seven modes.

Quote by EZLN libertad
what will make G mixolydian sound bad over a C major vamp
It's impossible to do.
#27
Quote by EZLN libertad
explain to me why that doesnt work specifically though.

what will make G mixolydian sound bad over a C major vamp

or maybe youve never tried doing that?


God ****ing damn it. You cannot play G mixolydian over a C major progression because your tonal center is C. If you play the notes CDEFGAB, in any order, over a C major progression, you are playing C major. Modes don't factor into it at all.
If you want to play G mixolydian, you need a tonal center of G.

Stop posting.

im saying that im playing it in C major, and im throwing in an F lydian run or arpeggio to add color


No, you aren't. "F lydian" over C major is C major, not F lydian.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#28
Archeo, if you were to play the scale "G mixolydian" when the tonal center is C, you'd be playing C major because all those notes are in C major, right?... maybe? As in, it wouldn't be G mixolydian any more because the tonal center is C?

I learned modes wrong so if you could clear that up real quick that'd be nice of you.


edt: after looking at your edit, i guess i'm right.
“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are part of nature and therefore part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”


-Max Planck

☮∞☯♥
#29
Quote by metal4all
Archeo, if you were to play the scale "G mixolydian" when the tonal center is C, you'd be playing C major because all those notes are in C major, right?... maybe? As in, it wouldn't be G mixolydian any more because the tonal center is C?

I learned modes wrong so if you could clear that up real quick that'd be nice of you.


edt: after looking at your edit, i'm pretty sure i'm right.


You are exactly right.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#30
Quote by EZLN libertad
explain to me why that doesnt work specifically though.

what will make G mixolydian sound bad over a C major vamp

or maybe youve never tried doing that?


edit: to ouchies, im not saying that im playing a song in the key of F lydian, im saying that im playing it in C major, and im throwing in an F lydian run or arpeggio to add color


Sure you can add in an F Major arpeggio if you wanted, but in the end you would resolve to C, not F, thats why you would be playing C Major. You can do whatever you want but in the end you would want to end on a C, E or G, preferably C because it is the tonic, but it doesn't have to be.

So basically, playing an F major chord over a C Major chord works but you have to resolve to C, therefore you are playing C Major not F Lydian.. even though you are playing an F Major chord.. do you get it? Just because you are throwing in something that isn't perfect doesn't mean that the actual solo is in that scale.

I hope it makes sense, I'm HORRIBLE at explaining things.
#31
Quote by ouchies
Sure you can add in an F Major arpeggio if you wanted, but in the end you would resolve to C, not F, thats why you would be playing C Major. You can do whatever you want but in the end you would want to end on a C, E or G, preferably C because it is the tonic, but it doesn't have to be. The resolution of your lead doesn't determine the mode; it's all about the chord or implied chords if you're playing solo.

So basically, playing an F major chord over a C Major chord works but you have to resolve to C, therefore you are playing C Major not F Lydian.. even though you are playing an F Major chord.. do you get it? Just because you are throwing in something that isn't perfect doesn't mean that the actual solo is in that scale. An F major arp works fine, but your chord progression still resolves to C, so it's not F Lydian. You can still call the arp "F major," though.

I hope it makes sense, I'm HORRIBLE at explaining things.
sdfgb
#33
Quote by ouchies
Oh btw, thinking of runs as an "F lydian" run or "G mixolydian" run is impractical because only the note you end on matters.
It's all about the chord progression.

Quote by metal4all
edt: after looking at your edit, i'm pretty sure i'm right.
It is.
#35
regardless of what you tell me, i will still hold to the idea that you can toy with the different modes of a key while in that key, i know you wont be playing "g mixolydian," i know its still c major, with a run that happens to be the notes that G major is, but im arguing that it can be done, and it simply is another aspect of soloing to explore, while it may not be huge, it can open a few small doors

or you can limit your playing, your call
Quote by beadhangingOne
There is no music but metal and muhammad is its prophet.
#36
Quote by EZLN libertad
regardless of what you tell me, i will still hold to the idea that you can toy with the different modes of a key while in that key, i know you wont be playing "g mixolydian," i know its still c major, with a run that happens to be the notes that G major is, but im arguing that it can be done, and it simply is another aspect of soloing to explore, while it may not be huge, it can open a few small doors

or you can limit your playing, your call


This isn't about "limiting", this is about definitions. Your post was incorrect, and you have no idea what modes are, or how they are used.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#37
Quote by EZLN libertad
regardless of what you tell me, i will still hold to the idea that you can toy with the different modes of a key while in that key, i know you wont be playing "g mixolydian," i know its still c major, with a run that happens to be the notes that G major is, but im arguing that it can be done, and it simply is another aspect of soloing to explore, while it may not be huge, it can open a few small doors
UG members, kindly ignore EZLN libertad.

Quote by ouchies
And the resolution of the lead DOES matter because you can't end on an F over a C Major chord.
Sure you can. It might sound weird, but weird can be good.
#38
glad to see you changed your quote, but i do know what modes are

edit: so you say you can end on the f, but you totally disagree with everything i say that basically supports the concept that you can play that F major arpeggio?
Quote by beadhangingOne
There is no music but metal and muhammad is its prophet.
#39
Quote by EZLN libertad
glad to see you changed your quote, but i do know what modes are


They why have you been spending this entire thread defending an incorrect definition?
You need to shut the **** up, and stop spreading misinformation. Someone might think you know what you're talking about.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#40
Quote by EZLN libertad
glad to see you changed your quote, but i do know what modes are
The rhythm guitarist plays a static C major chord while the lead guitarist plays the following: A C D F D E G. This is played between frets 10 and 13. What scale has the lead guitarist just used?
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