#1
So.

My Marshall DSL 100 came back from repair today. The issue was that the lead channel lacked loads of gain.

The tech that repaired on warranty in Norway, wrote that he soldered bad contact spots over the print board. This was written in bad norwegian, so i print board might be something else.

Now: the Lead 2 channel with gain at 8/10 sounds EXACTLY THE SAME as crunch channel with gain on max (10/10). The crunch channel doesn't even need the same ammount of volume to kick the lead 2's ass.

Palm mutes are very thin and fiddly. I don't know whats going on Sad
Har nånn egentli vorri langt sjøl om bestemt sæ for å bruk t å me gå å vill å gjør sjå mer lik?
#2
try replacing the tubes, that would be my first guess.
Guitar:
Schecter Omen 6 (Dimarzio X2N & Tone Zone)
Amps:
Engl Fireball
Genz Benz G-Flex 2x12 Cab
#3
take it to a different amp tech
i dont think its got much to do with the tubes
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#4
Dude, they did not fix your amp proper. Sounds like a capacitor in the C12 or 13 position is jacked up...this affects channel 2 until about a gain of 5ish...after that I am not sure. But Take it to another amp repair location....that amp has tons of gain and is not working proper! Sounds like a crappy tech!

You may want to post your question at http://www.marshallforum.com/workbench/
There are many people that know these things inside and out.
#5
Quote by damnedone
Dude, they did not fix your amp proper. Sounds like a capacitor in the C12 or 13 position is jacked up...this affects channel 2 until about a gain of 5ish...after that I am not sure. But Take it to another amp repair location....that amp has tons of gain and is not working proper! Sounds like a crappy tech!

You may want to post your question at http://www.marshallforum.com/workbench/
There are many people that know these things inside and out.



Thanks dude. Now, i did post at marshallampforum, it's a slow forum.

It has been to two techs. The first one did not find anything wrong with it. He thought it was enough gain. But he played it with a strat through a 15" monitor speaker. I don't doubt he's a good tech, but certainly not the right for finding whats wrong with a high gain amp like this.

My Vox AD30VT provides chunkier palm mutes with the gain at half. The marshall really struggles with palm mutes and often provides muddy leads.

The second amp tech worked on warranty as said. He did not contact me AT ALL. I paid $40 to get it sent to him. THis irritates me.

If i contact Marshall, could they do something with it? I realy dont want to pay for extensive repairs for a $2500 amplifier (yeah, ****'s expensive in norway) that worked for half an hour
Har nånn egentli vorri langt sjøl om bestemt sæ for å bruk t å me gå å vill å gjør sjå mer lik?
#6
Yeh, it is a slow forum! One person suggested to try the following:

"Swap the preamp tubes around and see if it makes a difference. One will be for the gain channel and another one will be for the fx-loop. You may even have a crappy connection on the fx-loop inserts themselves. Use a straight guitar cable to go from Send to Return to see if it makes any difference."

Also take a look at this thread: http://www.marshallforum.com/marshall-amps/1278-lack-gain-sustain.html

Hope some of these suggestions help.
#7
Quote by damnedone
Yeh, it is a slow forum! One person suggested to try the following:

"Swap the preamp tubes around and see if it makes a difference. One will be for the gain channel and another one will be for the fx-loop. You may even have a crappy connection on the fx-loop inserts themselves. Use a straight guitar cable to go from Send to Return to see if it makes any difference."

Also take a look at this thread: http://www.marshallforum.com/marshall-amps/1278-lack-gain-sustain.html

Hope some of these suggestions help.


I have alleready tried swapping the tubes around. No change. The amp is BRAND NEW. I might try the fx loop thing, but i don't have a cable.

EDIT: Clean channel seems fine
Har nånn egentli vorri langt sjøl om bestemt sæ for å bruk t å me gå å vill å gjør sjå mer lik?
Last edited by perkristian876 at Jun 14, 2008,
#8
Since you have a new amp, I urge you to return it to wherever you purchased it. It obviously got screwed up somehow. Also, the place you purchased your amp may have some sort of policy where they will cover postage on damages items.

Best of luck...I wouldn't even mess with it if new...just get a proper operating amp
#9
Quote by damnedone
Since you have a new amp, I urge you to return it to wherever you purchased it. It obviously got screwed up somehow. Also, the place you purchased your amp may have some sort of policy where they will cover postage on damages items.

Best of luck...I wouldn't even mess with it if new...just get a proper operating amp



Here is the downer, the store doesnt exist anymore. It was a closing off sale.

Can i hold the importer responsible?
Har nånn egentli vorri langt sjøl om bestemt sæ for å bruk t å me gå å vill å gjør sjå mer lik?
#10
Sounds like your having a crud experience. Your amplifier should still be covered under the Marshall Waranty...I think it goes to 1 year (unless you extend it.) According to Marshall you may want to consider this option:

"If you have a unit still under warranty but have moved from where you originally purchased it from but have a Marshall Dealer in the area, you can ask them if they would not mind sending it back on your behalf but they are not obligated to do so as they did not sell it to you originally."

I realize that you did not move, but the store is no lobger available. A Pro Gear store may be willing to send your amp in for replacement/repair as a good faith gesture...with the hope of gaining your future patronage. There should not be any shipping fees, as your unit is brand new. Do you have the warranty/Registration card? That should provide some information that can help you resolve this problem.

The other thing you could do is find an authorized service center near you and/or contact Marshall Direct for assistance.

http://www.marshallamps.com/support/support_contact_us.asp
#11
Quote by damnedone
Sounds like your having a crud experience. Your amplifier should still be covered under the Marshall Waranty...I think it goes to 1 year (unless you extend it.) According to Marshall you may want to consider this option:

"If you have a unit still under warranty but have moved from where you originally purchased it from but have a Marshall Dealer in the area, you can ask them if they would not mind sending it back on your behalf but they are not obligated to do so as they did not sell it to you originally."

I realize that you did not move, but the store is no lobger available. A Pro Gear store may be willing to send your amp in for replacement/repair as a good faith gesture...with the hope of gaining your future patronage. There should not be any shipping fees, as your unit is brand new. Do you have the warranty/Registration card? That should provide some information that can help you resolve this problem.

The other thing you could do is find an authorized service center near you and/or contact Marshall Direct for assistance.

http://www.marshallamps.com/support/support_contact_us.asp


Thanks.

What do you mean with a "Pro Gear" store? same as any other guitar/amp shop/workshop?

I don't have a warranty/registration card, but it should be okay with serial numbers and receipts? Or if i contact the store owners for any info?

I have found out that more people than me have problems with the dsl which aren't directly related to tubes and other easy fixable things, but faulties with the circuit board.
Har nånn egentli vorri langt sjøl om bestemt sæ for å bruk t å me gå å vill å gjør sjå mer lik?
#12
Yes, a ProGear store is wherever you get your guitar gear in Norway (I'm simply not familiar with your area.) I have heard of folks having problems with all kinds of amps, especially tube) but that is NOT the norm. You just hear about problems, more often than when there are no problems. For instance, I got my DSL50 and it is either a 2000 or 2001...with only 1 complete tube change...no other problems (knock on wood...LOL) Of course it is second hand, so I am basing on what the previous owner told me.

You may want to take a look at all these components C12, C13, R19. R20, R21, R22...they are all in the red channel. See if anything looks like it is not connected wellm or is burnt etc. You probably have a simple problem, but of course it's finding the actual problem that is a pain.

Don't take this the wrong way, but have to ask...is the channel 2 volume up? Is there a tech nearby your location? Also, what did Marshall recommend that you do? BTW they WILL respond (in a couple of days) to your emails.

Added...Probably not the problem, but you may want to check the amps BIAS...this is easy to do with a cheap multimeter. Oh, also make sure all the tubes are snug and light up properly. Moving the amp around may have loosened/damaged a tube. Here is a link on how to do it.

http://www.eurotubes.com/euro-Marshall-DSLTSLV.htm


Quote by perkristian876
Thanks.

What do you mean with a "Pro Gear" store? same as any other guitar/amp shop/workshop?

I don't have a warranty/registration card, but it should be okay with serial numbers and receipts? Or if i contact the store owners for any info?

I have found out that more people than me have problems with the dsl which aren't directly related to tubes and other easy fixable things, but faulties with the circuit board.
Last edited by damnedone at Jun 15, 2008,
#13
Quote by damnedone
Yes, a ProGear store is wherever you get your guitar gear in Norway (I'm simply not familiar with your area.) I have heard of folks having problems with all kinds of amps, especially tube) but that is NOT the norm. You just hear about problems, more often than when there are no problems. For instance, I got my DSL50 and it is either a 2000 or 2001...with only 1 complete tube change...no other problems (knock on wood...LOL) Of course it is second hand, so I am basing on what the previous owner told me.

You may want to take a look at all these components C12, C13, R19. R20, R21, R22...they are all in the red channel. See if anything looks like it is not connected wellm or is burnt etc. You probably have a simple problem, but of course it's finding the actual problem that is a pain.

Don't take this the wrong way, but have to ask...is the channel 2 volume up? Is there a tech nearby your location? Also, what did Marshall recommend that you do? BTW they WILL respond (in a couple of days) to your emails.

Added...Probably not the problem, but you may want to check the amps BIAS...this is easy to do with a cheap multimeter. Oh, also make sure all the tubes are snug and light up properly. Moving the amp around may have loosened/damaged a tube. Here is a link on how to do it.

http://www.eurotubes.com/euro-Marshall-DSLTSLV.htm



Thanks again

Now, i usually never play at low volumes. Tube amps deserve high volumes. But in fear of my 60w cab breaking, i usually stop when the volume is about 5 or 6/10. which is damn loud.

I might have been to quick with getting this amp as i don't know much about tube amps. But it was a 50% discount and i had the money(they had a very long closing down sale with discounts starting at 20%, the 50% was their last week) But i know the importance of right impedance and all this standby stuff. So i know how to operate it. But when it comes to components and tech work, i don't know jack. You list all this Cxx components, but i do not really know what they are :P

I want to beleive that the amp tech working for the importer had a look at the tubes first. He did fix something i beleive. The sound was muddier before i sent it in. But there is still a lack of gain that really shines through when i Palm mute.

I haven't sent a Mail to Marshall yet as i'm thinking of visiting Trondheim (a city in norway no to far from where i live) and try the same amp to see if it's just me, though i'm 90% certain that there is an issue with my amp.

For now, i think i'll write a mail to Marshall and another to that store in Trondheim. I don't dare touching too much in the amp since i don't have the training.
Har nånn egentli vorri langt sjøl om bestemt sæ for å bruk t å me gå å vill å gjør sjå mer lik?
#14
Quote by perkristian876
Now, i usually never play at low volumes. Tube amps deserve high volumes. But in fear of my 60w cab breaking, i usually stop when the volume is about 5 or 6/10. which is damn loud.


I agree, tube amps sound their best cranked. And def. be careful with a 65w can ... as you know IT WILL BLOW!

Quote by perkristian876
I might have been to quick with getting this amp as i don't know much about tube amps. But it was a 50% discount and i had the money(they had a very long closing down sale with discounts starting at 20%, the 50% was their last week) But i know the importance of right impedance and all this standby stuff. So i know how to operate it. But when it comes to components and tech work, i don't know jack. You list all this Cxx components, but i do not really know what they are :P


The Cxx componants are capacitors. If you check this link, it has pictures of the caps/resistors/ and links that could effect your OD circuit. Bottom line is you don't need to worry about this unless you just want to check for something obvious...like burnt, disconnected or poor solder. Otherwise, your tech is the person to check this out. It is dangerous and shock will result from mishandling componants inside your amp.


Quote by perkristian876
I want to beleive that the amp tech working for the importer had a look at the tubes first. He did fix something i beleive. The sound was muddier before i sent it in. But there is still a lack of gain that really shines through when i Palm mute.


I want to believe that your tech checked everything (as well and he may have) but if a tech turns on the amp and it sounds ok to them...well that's a done deal for many techs. Tubes can take some degree of bouncing around, etc. But they can also lose contact or die altogether and your symptoms really sounds like a preamp tube failure. With your amp being shipped around...things to become loose - I've had it happen to me as well!

Quote by perkristian876
I haven't sent a Mail to Marshall yet as i'm thinking of visiting Trondheim (a city in norway no to far from where i live) and try the same amp to see if it's just me, though i'm 90% certain that there is an issue with my amp. .


That's a great idea! Also consider (Although doubtful,) your cab could be causing some of your tone suck. If so you could ID that problem in Tronhheim. Also, understand that even though the DSL100 does have decent gain...it is not at the same level of some Modern Death Metal Amps. To me the DSL is a perfect fit for classic rock through the "hair bands" of the 80's. IMHO ... But is not the very tight gain found in some very modern metal.

Oh, here are a few links for you...listen to some recordings of the DSL and get an idea if it is your amp or your expectations....

DSL100 (not alot of clips bt are some)
http://www.netmusicians.org/index.php?search=dsl100

DSL50 (More Clips Kinda same thing as the DSL100)
http://www.netmusicians.org/index.php?value=****&section=user

A couple of youtube clips:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh3jZnqlybQ&feature=related

Using Vintage30 Speakers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlKQanImbVI&feature=related


Quote by perkristian876
For now, i think i'll write a mail to Marshall and another to that store in Trondheim. I don't dare touching too much in the amp since i don't have the training.


That's your best bet and good luck getting that amp up and jamming!

Peace
#15
Quote by damnedone
I agree, tube amps sound their best cranked. And def. be careful with a 65w can ... as you know IT WILL BLOW!



The Cxx componants are capacitors. If you check this link, it has pictures of the caps/resistors/ and links that could effect your OD circuit. Bottom line is you don't need to worry about this unless you just want to check for something obvious...like burnt, disconnected or poor solder. Otherwise, your tech is the person to check this out. It is dangerous and shock will result from mishandling componants inside your amp.


I want to believe that your tech checked everything (as well and he may have) but if a tech turns on the amp and it sounds ok to them...well that's a done deal for many techs. Tubes can take some degree of bouncing around, etc. But they can also lose contact or die altogether and your symptoms really sounds like a preamp tube failure. With your amp being shipped around...things to become loose - I've had it happen to me as well!


That's a great idea! Also consider (Although doubtful,) your cab could be causing some of your tone suck. If so you could ID that problem in Tronhheim. Also, understand that even though the DSL100 does have decent gain...it is not at the same level of some Modern Death Metal Amps. To me the DSL is a perfect fit for classic rock through the "hair bands" of the 80's. IMHO ... But is not the very tight gain found in some very modern metal.

Oh, here are a few links for you...listen to some recordings of the DSL and get an idea if it is your amp or your expectations....

DSL100 (not alot of clips bt are some)
http://www.netmusicians.org/index.php?search=dsl100

DSL50 (More Clips Kinda same thing as the DSL100)
http://www.netmusicians.org/index.php?value=****&section=user

A couple of youtube clips:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh3jZnqlybQ&feature=related

Using Vintage30 Speakers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlKQanImbVI&feature=related


That's your best bet and good luck getting that amp up and jamming!

Peace


I listened to some of these clips. It just makes me more certain that there is something with my amp. Mostly cause of the Palm mutes. I have decent pickups (Duncan SH6 along with some Epiphone high output pickups).

I know that the DSL100 ain't the most tight amp. Its exactly why i got it. I like the eighties thrashy style. EDIT: It should have more than enough gain. When i played in trondheim i did not have the gain at max since it seems to be too much.

I went ahead and sent a mail to Marshall. I asked if they could propose a solution wether to replace or repair the amp. My cab is brand new. With my kustom amp it sounds great though the custom seems to constantly boost the mids (arround 1-2k frequency) I used the kustom on the cab whilst the marshall was to the tech to get the cab to break in a bit. So i really think the cab is okay, doesn choke the gain in any way.

Thanks for all your help. I really hope this gets sorted out quickly. I could try swapping the preamp tubes. Some have suggested that, but I'm worried about the warranty. Is it allowed?

Peace dude
Har nånn egentli vorri langt sjøl om bestemt sæ for å bruk t å me gå å vill å gjør sjå mer lik?
Last edited by perkristian876 at Jun 16, 2008,
#16
Quote by perkristian876
I

I could try swapping the preamp tubes. Some have suggested that, but I'm worried about the warranty. Is it allowed?

Peace dude


I honestly don't think it will effect your warranty - but I do not know for sure. However - I won't tell, if you don't...LOL! 2 things that are important - One do not swap tubes when they are hot or when you amp is plugged in. Keep in mind... Swapping the preamp tubes is EASY and does not require re-BIAS.

Also, you can always put them back in the original order. The preamp tubes are the four at the furthest left of your amp - when looking into the rear. One will have a metal (top) over it. - They are the small tubes.

Once you swap the tubes, turn on your amp and see if you gain channel is still not proper. Often once folks do this they find a channel that worked before now doesn't - that's ok! This means one of your tubes is bad. Not your amp.
#17
Quote by damnedone
I honestly don't think it will effect your warranty - but I do not know for sure. However - I won't tell, if you don't...LOL! 2 things that are important - One do not swap tubes when they are hot or when you amp is plugged in. Keep in mind... Swapping the preamp tubes is EASY and does not require re-BIAS.

Also, you can always put them back in the original order. The preamp tubes are the four at the furthest left of your amp - when looking into the rear. One will have a metal (top) over it. - They are the small tubes.

Once you swap the tubes, turn on your amp and see if you gain channel is still not proper. Often once folks do this they find a channel that worked before now doesn't - that's ok! This means one of your tubes is bad. Not your amp.



Did it. No difference. I'm crying right now.

okay, i'm not crying lol. I'll wait for answers from Marshall for now. I'll go to Trondheim and test another DSL too, but i'm 99% certain that the amp has a problem. Might be the capasitors or other things that might be fixed my a local amp tech easily... Could also be more severe, So i'll leave it for now.

Thanks to thee damnedone. You will be rewarded in the afterlife with plenty virgins, and all the food and drink you might wish.
Har nånn egentli vorri langt sjøl om bestemt sæ for å bruk t å me gå å vill å gjør sjå mer lik?